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OfflineXUL
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19084956 - 11/04/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

MaxwellSmart said:
Quote:

XUL said:
Quote:

TheShroomingAtheis said:
I am an anarchist.  System of common morality(don't do what will hurt others) and no leaders. Pretty simple.





Quote:

Enlil said:
Simple, maybe, but not functional in a society larger than a few people. 

Human nature doesn't recognize a "common morality."





I agree with Enlil. It seems to me if anarchy is worth while then it would technically be a "good" thing if we all converted to anarchy. The problem is that nobody would agree and we might end up with a bunch of communes battling with each other. It seems primitive.

Hypothetically speaking....

Imagine America has turned into a massive nation based on anarchy, communes every where; maybe even peace. But what happens when another country decides to come in and kill us all yet we have no leaders?

They would come in and rape all our wives and daughters but there would be no way to stop it because the lack of organization.

What does anarchy say about that?

Counterpoint?



First, I'd like to point out that every time this country was legitimately attacked by foreigners, it was a direct result of US foreign policy. Without the state we would be less likely to be invaded.

However, in the event that we are, it would be advantageous to have a decentralized defense. Think about a horse: cut off the head and it dies. Control the head and you control the whole animal. Now compare myc. Cut a piece off and you have taken is a piece, which will grow back.

We see this in Afghanistan today where poor cave dwellers have fended off the largest and most well funded military on Earth for over a decade.





That is a nice point. Especially the part about Afghanistan.

It seems hard too exactly define one's self. Rather there seems to be a fluidity about our choices and what we believe.

One thing I believe in is the power of words more than anything.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: XUL]
    #19085241 - 11/04/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

People who believe Anarchism is just a bunch of snooty, self-entitled, punk-ass, teens; Seriously need a history lesson.



There also appears to be allot of misconceptions on what Anarchism really represents, as usual. I'd like to provide this short, easy to understand video that accurately describes the philosophy of classical Anarchists, who shouldn't be confused with ignorant children calling themselves the name. 



--------------------
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Edited by Smokey420 (11/04/13 01:31 PM)


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19086266 - 11/04/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Enlil, sorry buddy no hard feelings, but just because we have a little disagreement on a political debate on the internet, that doesn't give you the right to tell me to leave this post and hang out with the conspiracy theorist. Thats somthing the communist do.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19086289 - 11/04/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

For your convenience, I have quoted the relevant rule below:

"4) This is not the place to discuss conspiracy theories.  There is a conspiracy theory forum dedicated to conspiracy theory discussion.  Continually derailing threads by trolling them with conspiracy theory garbage will result in a ban from the political discussion forum."

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1333585

If you don't like the rules, you're free to go to another site with rules that you do like.  If you choose to stay at this site, you should follow the rules.


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19086372 - 11/04/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

lol, I never mentioned conspiracy's. You did, I just told you what I thought. This is good old America... free speach! RIGHT?


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19086379 - 11/04/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you keep replying to me in your argument with Enlil? :jimmies:


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19086458 - 11/04/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry I didn't try to reply to you.  Im in a terminal waiting on a flight with bad phone service. Phone keeps freezing up.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19086673 - 11/04/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Illuminati bullshit is a conspiracy theory...Yes...you mentioned it.

And freedom of speech doesn't apply here.  The site is not a government site.


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19086719 - 11/04/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Im someone who questions authority in detail. I obey laws that make since. The ones I don't agree with I break daily. Im 36 with no record at all not even a misdemeanor. And I am a good person I will not let the government hold me back from living my life.. fuck some of their laws Im a human and if I want to do something that has no consequences to anyone Else, Im doing it straight up no questions Im not there sheep so I guess Im an evil anarchist lol.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic] * 1
    #19086721 - 11/04/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

T-Funkadellic said:
Im someone who questions authority in detail. I obey laws that make since. The ones I don't agree with I break daily. Im 36 with no record at all not even a misdemeanor. And I am a good person I will not let the government hold me back from living my life.. fuck some of their laws Im a human and if I want to do something that has no consequences to anyone Else, Im doing it straight up no questions Im not there sheep so I guess Im an evil anarchist lol.




A victim of public education


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19086732 - 11/04/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Lol I love you man... you got a hard on for me?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: T-Funkadelic] * 1
    #19086746 - 11/04/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not at all.  I want you to make a coherent point that I can slaughter if necessary.  Or support.  The post I quoted was borderline gibberish.  We deserve better.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: MaxwellSmart]
    #19087290 - 11/04/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'd just like to point out that Anarcho-Capitalism is inherently a false ideology. Anarchism has always and forever been against all forms of hierarchical power structures. Capitalism is inherently a class based system, which creates hierarchical power structures.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19087368 - 11/04/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Anarchy completely ignores human nature.

1) It might work on a small scale, but get enough people in the mix and you get some socio-paths/whacko's that abuse the system and cause great harm before they are discovered.

A perfect example are hippy communes of the 60's. 

2)  Nature abhors a vaccuum.  No leader?  A state with no leader is a perfect target for a charismatic, likable figurehead with the socio-psychopathic features I mentioned in 1) to step in and take over. 

As far as conspiracy and illuminati mentioned in earlier posts, well duh.  Everyone knows Lizard type alien shape-shifters have taken control of the government.  they also run the deep freeze in South America, where the still alive in suspended animation bodies of Hitler, Elvis, and Kurt Cobain are.  :smirk:


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19087391 - 11/04/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It worked during the Spanish civil war until Stalin realized their influence and turned his guns against them. Watch the videos I posted.


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OfflineMaxwellSmart
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19089195 - 11/05/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes Smokey420, and of course all true Scotsmen love haggis. Semantic arguments are boring but if you insist, I will address this once more. Language changes over time. What we call "liberal" today is not what people would have meant 200 years ago when they said it. Many of our words have broader, narrower, or completely different meanings than they did in the past (e.g. conservative, privacy, security, welfare, etc). Anarchy is the general name for any non state doctrine. I wantd to include all schools. That is why I was not more specific in the title. Having said that...

Today we call Proudon types Anarcho Communist, or AnCom. Frankly, I see this ideas as generally contradictory. They obviously impose rules, but the etymology claims that they're against rulers. How are you going to choose and enforce rules without coercion and thus, rulers?  If it is coercive, it is a government. If everyone gets a vote, is is a democracy. If your goals include eliminating social classes and private property, you are communist. This is basically the antithesis of statelessness.

AnCaps are truly against rulers. No one forces themselves onto others. The only legitimate coercion occurs as a response to a breach of another's rights.


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"The cost of sanity, in this society, is a certain level of alienation." -Terence McKenna.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: Smokey420]
    #19089452 - 11/05/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Capitalism is inherently a class based system




This is, of course, bullshit.  As a pure system capitalism is blind to class.  All that matters is production.  Classism perverts capitalism.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19089725 - 11/05/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Anarchy completely ignores human nature.

1) It might work on a small scale, but get enough people in the mix and you get some socio-paths/whacko's that abuse the system and cause great harm before they are discovered.

A perfect example are hippy communes of the 60's. 

2)  Nature abhors a vaccuum.  No leader?  A state with no leader is a perfect target for a charismatic, likable figurehead with the socio-psychopathic features I mentioned in 1) to step in and take over. 

As far as conspiracy and illuminati mentioned in earlier posts, well duh.  Everyone knows Lizard type alien shape-shifters have taken control of the government.  they also run the deep freeze in South America, where the still alive in suspended animation bodies of Hitler, Elvis, and Kurt Cobain are.  :smirk:




Im a bit of a socialistic anarchist

Freedom, Helping each other, Tolerance in every law

The duty of the state/gov is to ensure freedom

to only be there when needed

which means it shouldnt exist most of the time

minimal state

(something is obviously gonna need to be taxed so we can keep police/fire dept etc.
I dont mind paying taxes... but I dont want a too big gov either, with too much control of our lives)


Edited by lessismore (11/05/13 12:03 PM)


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091037 - 11/05/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Capitalism is inherently a class based system




This is, of course, bullshit.  As a pure system capitalism is blind to class.  All that matters is production.  Classism perverts capitalism.



:whathesaid:

Also Smokey, your apparent wishes for a system without classes is pretty unrealistic and just doesn't make any sense.
Though you may hate it, there is a reason that a large portion of wealthy people view poor receiving benefits such as social welfare as freeloaders, moochers, etc.
A system that would be more realistic and reasonable than socialism (though still probably not going to happen) is one that provides completely equal opportunity - and lack of oppression -  to all its citizens, leaving it up to individuals to take advantage of what is given to them.
Then we would really know who the bottom feeders are, and who deserves what they have.
Still, almost certainly never going to happen unless the human consciousness is recreated digitally or some shit :lol:

Anarchy also isn't going to provide equality in any traditional sense, though it would be more fair than any system with imperfect government.
In complete anarchy, everything is up to chance.
You have an equal chance of being born into a commune in control of fertile land, with decent resources and ability to defend itself as you do have a chance to be born to an AIDS-bearing/crack-smoking mother, kidnapped to become a sex slave for your childhood, only to be cannibalized before you even get the chance to die of starvation or the disease you were born with.
Second example sounds pretty shitty, right?
Well, similar situations happen in places with inefficient governments, and sometimes in places with (semi)functional governments.
The difference is, there isn't an entity that existed long before you did which you have no representation in, giving preferential treatment to a small portion of the population whose individuals have wealth that you and your entire family will only touch fractions of altogether in your combined lifespans.

Might sound like I'm pro-anarchy, but it's not going to happen on a significant scale or for a significant amount of time, so we should instead work on improving systems which are in existence or have a possibility of occurring in the future.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Fellow Anarchists? [Re: lessismore]
    #19091060 - 11/05/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Anarchy completely ignores human nature.

1) It might work on a small scale, but get enough people in the mix and you get some socio-paths/whacko's that abuse the system and cause great harm before they are discovered.

A perfect example are hippy communes of the 60's. 

2)  Nature abhors a vaccuum.  No leader?  A state with no leader is a perfect target for a charismatic, likable figurehead with the socio-psychopathic features I mentioned in 1) to step in and take over. 

As far as conspiracy and illuminati mentioned in earlier posts, well duh.  Everyone knows Lizard type alien shape-shifters have taken control of the government.  they also run the deep freeze in South America, where the still alive in suspended animation bodies of Hitler, Elvis, and Kurt Cobain are.  :smirk:




Im a bit of a socialistic anarchist

Freedom, Helping each other, Tolerance in every law

The duty of the state/gov is to ensure freedom

to only be there when needed

which means it shouldnt exist most of the time

minimal state

(something is obviously gonna need to be taxed so we can keep police/fire dept etc.
I dont mind paying taxes... but I dont want a too big gov either, with too much control of our lives)



I have no problem with people voluntarily helping each other.  In fact, that is how I think it should be done.


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