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fightingcherries


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 107
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Never buy spores again?
#19085926 - 11/04/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Lets say I were to buy one spore syringe and grow with with, if I were to keep making spore prints/syringes from that one syringe's offspring how long could I keep on doing that? Forever? or at some point does it no longer become viable?
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Eveniftheskyfalls
Even if the sky falls



Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 449
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You can grow mushrooms with it and mushrooms drop spores, then you can grow with those spores and repeat the process. So unless something goes wrong and you get contam every single time, id say that you could keep taking prints
-------------------- Sanity and Happiness are an impossible combination. Even when the sky falls, Ill still be high Anything illegal or has to do with mushrooms that i talk about is completely 100% fictional and is not true. I dont even visit this site. ( I am a proud provider and receiver of positive vibes ) "Reading a trip report is funny. Its like reading a book. You get to visualize the words... Only the visualization is always of some dude starring at the ceiling for a few hours"- Eveniftheskyfalls Progress in life since I found this site (look below)
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Yeah you can do that. After you've been a member here for a while you can also start trading prints with other users to obtain different genetics
Just don't buy a kit. They suck. Watch the let's grow mushrooms video series and do it yourself
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19085982 - 11/04/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19086044 - 11/04/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yep i can attest to this i only bought one syringe took a spore print from my harvest and went to agar. also won a pe print from a member which im going to be playing with tonight
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
#19086198 - 11/04/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, as long as you start from print, you'll have fresh genetics. If you clone, fruit, clone, fruit, clone, then fruit, and then finally print again, you'll still have fresh genetics from that print.
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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Stromrider
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Yeah you'll have to learn to use agar if you want to be successful with it. It's pretty tough to get really clean prints at home
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slapphappypill
Enthusiast!




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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19086214 - 11/04/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said: Yeah you'll have to learn to use agar if you want to be successful with it. It's pretty tough to get really clean prints at home
Id have to disagree... I'd done open air printing, then put a print to agar without a single bit of contam... dirty conditions around the print also... As long as it's not an out door print, in general one should be just fine with print to syringe and have a good 80-100% success ratio with proper sterile technique.
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Quote:
fightingcherries said: Lets say I were to buy one spore syringe and grow with with, if I were to keep making spore prints/syringes from that one syringe's offspring how long could I keep on doing that? Forever? or at some point does it no longer become viable?
eventually you would run into issues, tampenisis is one that has suffered from inbreeding for example, so it's best to save your earlier prints(or obviuosly do some trading) but yes there would eventually be problems.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Yeah, ime making prints -> syringes is easier than working with agar, but I do admittedly need more practice doing agar work. Otherwise to the OP's question you can effectively make prints to last you forever. However, each time you take a print you are narrowing down the genetics (ignoring possible mutations which increase them, yet are rare). Effectively it doesn't matter though, working over 10+ years you may well begin to see a difference (and it could be better or worse), but it will take quite a while, and you can always trade or keep older prints to diversify your offspring.
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Kiya_Star427
Live FREE or be a SLAVE!


Registered: 10/14/13
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Loc: New York
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19086355 - 11/04/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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wtf kind of question was that... even if you forget to take a spore print and you have a dried mushroom left, you can still grow it into a culture.
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fightingcherries


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 107
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: cronicr]
#19090401 - 11/05/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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how do you know when there are signs of inbreeding?/how long does it take for that to happen? I am guessing years because of the other responses on the forum.
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Sgt. Pepper


Registered: 06/19/13
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Or you could make a liquid culture. Take the last drop of solution in your spore syringe and drop it into a lc and a week later you'll have enough to supply hundreds of jars. That is unless it contams, so I would make at least 3. The contam rate for lc is kinda high. But assuming it goes well, you have a nearly unlimited supply which you could use to make even more liquid culture! Things get very exponential in this hobby if you do it right. Haha.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19090799 - 11/05/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: Or you could make a liquid culture. Take the last drop of solution in your spore syringe and drop it into a lc and a week later you'll have enough to supply hundreds of jars.
LCs from spores are sketchy as hell, and it could take up to 2 weeks for the spres to even germinate and start to grow.
Then you would have to wait 2-4 weeks for the LC to colonize a descent amount.
Then you need to shoot up and grow out test jars, so you do not waste your time knocking up a bunch of jars with contaminated LC.
Seems like a giant pain in the ass waste of time to me.
Much quicker and safer to just use knock up the grains/cakes with the spores and and let them grow.
But that's just me....I did always prefer the more common sense approach.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Quote:
fightingcherries said: how do you know when there are signs of inbreeding?/how long does it take for that to happen? I am guessing years because of the other responses on the forum.
honestly it would take years of growing/printing from the original print, there's a section in the strain thread where workman goes into detail about it
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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fightingcherries


Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 107
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: cronicr]
#19090915 - 11/05/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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thanks!!!
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Sgt. Pepper


Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: PussyFart]
#19090961 - 11/05/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Notahacker420 said:
Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: Or you could make a liquid culture. Take the last drop of solution in your spore syringe and drop it into a lc and a week later you'll have enough to supply hundreds of jars.
LCs from spores are sketchy as hell, and it could take up to 2 weeks for the spres to even germinate and start to grow.
Then you would have to wait 2-4 weeks for the LC to colonize a descent amount.
Then you need to shoot up and grow out test jars, so you do not waste your time knocking up a bunch of jars with contaminated LC.
Seems like a giant pain in the ass waste of time to me.
Much quicker and safer to just use knock up the grains/cakes with the spores and and let them grow.
But that's just me....I did always prefer the more common sense approach.
I respect your opinion completely, but that's how I do it and it works for me. The beauty of this hobby is the ability to do things how it works for you. While it may be a sketchy process with a high failure rate, one jar of lc can supply numerous grows. But I do agree with you, it is unreliable. I got an oyster lc syringe from a very reputable, sponsor distributor and it was contaminated with the green mean. So to the op, if you were to make a lc, be very careful and expect a couple contams every now and again. Plenty of people love lc, but plenty also hate it. Only way to tell which category you fall into is to try it.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19090984 - 11/05/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'll say it again to make sure it known. Agar is the way to go. No question.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19091038 - 11/05/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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I'm actually in the process of using an agar wedge to make a galindoi lc
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Fungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne
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I have what would most call, not the cleanest house, I have dust, and all sorts of possible contams in the air, I've so far gotten 8 jars inoculated and they are all contam free. Did it in open air. I did follow the usual cleansing techniques when filling the process. Open air is fine.
-------------------- Formerly known as Psycho4ctive To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Posts: 8,598
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19091130 - 11/05/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I seem to only be able to grow mold with my print. I tried a different trick this time. Fingers crossed.
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SpitballJedi
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Quote:
Fungi said: I have what would most call, not the cleanest house, I have dust, and all sorts of possible contams in the air, I've so far gotten 8 jars inoculated and they are all contam free. Did it in open air. I did follow the usual cleansing techniques when filling the process. Open air is fine.
8 jars is not a good meter.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
Edited by SpitballJedi (11/05/13 05:05 PM)
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Fungi
Psycho4ctive


Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 393
Loc: Melbourne
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Well it gave me fruits
-------------------- Formerly known as Psycho4ctive To Fathom Hell or Soar Angelic, Just Take a Pinch of Psychedelic
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19093875 - 11/06/13 03:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said: I'll say it again to make sure it known. Agar is the way to go. No question.
couldnt agree more, its as easy as making jello.
LCs are 10x more work much more equipment etc test jars blah blah blah. and takes 3x longer to see results and thats if its not contammed.
agar is easy as fuck you throw w/e you want on it spores, swabs, syringe, fresh fruits w/e
and you will know if you have a clean culture in less than a week.
hands down the most common sense approach and the easiest. buy case of petri dishes and 500 grams of pda and your done.
no magnetic stirrers, syringes or crazy recipes for lcs. just dishes and pda and water.
oh ya and you can make isolates the list goes on and on and on about the positive points of agar vs LCs
oh ya and once you get an isolate you can make slants and keep them in your fridge for year(s)
Edited by twistedty (11/06/13 03:02 AM)
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twistedty
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said:

If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.
making an LC with an isolate agar wedge is counter productive when you can take that wedge and throw it into a sterilized grain jar let it colonize then g2g and save yourself 2-3 weeks of time
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Stromrider
This must be the place



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
#19093903 - 11/06/13 03:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
twistedty said:
Quote:
SpitballJedi said:

If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.
making an LC with an isolate agar wedge is counter productive when you can take that wedge and throw it into a sterilized grain jar let it colonize then g2g and save yourself 2-3 weeks of time
Well in my case I'm using it to make galindoi lc. I figured that would work better than inoculating with a wedge in this case since galindoi tends to stall when shaken
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krypto2000
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Stromrider]
#19094715 - 11/06/13 10:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know why people hate on LC so much. Ime they're at least as reliable as MS inoculation, and honestly I believe they're even more reliable because you can see visible growth more quickly, they're more likely to take hold (I'll often have spores not germinate), and once you know you have a clean culture you can noc up hundreds or even possibly thousands of jars. With a MS syringe you still should be testing it first, but even if you know it's good it will typically give you not much more than 20 jars. Not sure what a previous poster meant by needing more equipment either, LC's can safely be done in the open air provided you have lids with self healing injection ports. Agar work cannot be done without petris and a glove box at the very minimum.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
#19094773 - 11/06/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
twistedty said:
Quote:
SpitballJedi said:

If one were to insist on LC, then at least make it from agar of known to be good genetics.
making an LC with an isolate agar wedge is counter productive when you can take that wedge and throw it into a sterilized grain jar let it colonize then g2g and save yourself 2-3 weeks of time
I agree. But the argument is meaningless if someone insists on making LC. If they insist, then I say at least do it with agar of a proven culture.
Some people can't resist the Sirens' call of LC. I would like to at least give an option of the best way to have a clean LC. That's the best way I'm aware of.
Krypto, I don't hate on LC, but making one from grains or MS is sketchy and it's a lot of invested time if it fails.
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36fuckin5
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The way to go is to do both, really.
Start your spores on agar. Always.
Get some good growth, then throw a wedge in a grain jar. At the same time, have several LC jars pre-made. Inoculate those with agar wedges.
Let the LC and the grain colonize.
When the grain is done, G2G it and get to growing.
When the LC is done, do some test jars. Once you find a clean LC, you now have thousands of jars' worth of inoculant, and you lost no time because you did them side by side.
And if you don't get a clean LC, well you lost the use of a few jars for a while and a few cents worth of malt. But you still have your plates and master jars to actually work with.
It all depends on your scale. When you start doing more, LC can be useful, but you just have to assume that not all of your LCs are gonna come out clean, so take the shotgun approach.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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twistedty
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19095854 - 11/06/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i dunno i have done LC for fun so i guess youre right it was successful just a PITA. dont mean to hate on it but i know it sounds like i do.
and i agree all spores should always start on agar after a few successful runs with ms syringes etc once you learn the cycle of cultivation.
peaceeee
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krypto2000
Unknown


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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
#19114249 - 11/10/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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RR himself has stated that he has not seen isolates or monocultures outperform MS, so other than ensuring a clean starting culture going agar to lc is a useless step. Even if you start with a clean culture I still would not blindly use a LC, or an agar wedge for that matter, without first testing it. Even with agar you can have hidden contaminants and also introduce contaminants in the transfer. If you have a clean MS syringe and self healing injection ports on your LC jar then it's much safer and easier to simply inject one into the other. Once you know it's clean, and the likelihood that it won't be is the same likelihood as nocing up a grain jar with that MS syringe which I'd hope would be quite low, then you just stick it in the fridge and it'll last you a couple years or more and I doubt you'll run out even if you don't do g2g transfers to expand your spawn unless you're trying to produce them on an industrial scale. It's very common to inoculate spawn with LC in industrial growing for that matter too simply because it is so easy. You think they're taking agar wedges and dropping them into all their spawn bags when they could simply stab and inject down the line?
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19114328 - 11/10/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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answers on this is simple.
use culture bottles, and agar. any contams can be seen, and any isolation is easy.
add sterile water and shake. instant slurry in seconds.
small bottles 250 mil, big ones 500 ml. you can make gallons in minits of slurry. clone or MS , your choice.

ive bought spores only 3 times in 35 yrs. master spore handling, and you shall never run out.
we handle spores on sterile plastics, and slides, often sealing them in clear packing tape.
*note, the size of the large prints, are close the the size of the entire slide, that the exotic print is on. no way, my cube prints, are gonna fit on a slide.
--------------------
Edited by anne halonium (11/10/13 11:12 AM)
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19114576 - 11/10/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: RR himself has stated that he has not seen isolates or monocultures outperform MS
You know I like you, but I'm gonna ask you to post a link to that.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: , so other than ensuring a clean starting culture going agar to lc is a useless step.
I know this logic is based on the previous quote, but it's still nonsense.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: Even if you start with a clean culture I still would not blindly use a LC, or an agar wedge for that matter, without first testing it. Even with agar you can have hidden contaminants and also introduce contaminants in the transfer.
I agree. But, it's way easier and less time consuming to catch contams on agar than on grain. And waaaaaay easier than LC.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: If you have a clean MS syringe and self healing injection ports on your LC jar then it's much safer and easier to simply inject one into the other.
This is true, but most spore syringes are not 100% contam free
Quote:
krypto2000 said: Once you know it's clean, and the likelihood that it won't be is the same likelihood as nocing up a grain jar with that MS syringe which I'd hope would be quite low,
But with grains, you are more likely to see the contam than you are with LC.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: You think they're taking agar wedges and dropping them into all their spawn bags when they could simply stab and inject down the line?
Do you think they are making LC with MS?
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Sgt. Pepper


Registered: 06/19/13
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If you made 10 lc's and only 1 didn't contam, you would still have a near unlimited amount of inoculate. I guess I am partial to lc though. I just restarted my grow from a lc I forgot to throw out in the haze after a bad trip a few months ago.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
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Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19114839 - 11/10/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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...unless you contaminate it later.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Sgt. Pepper


Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: ...unless you contaminate it later.
I guess that's fair. Haha.
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Gymspawn
Stranger
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19115138 - 11/10/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does anyone know of a good working LC tek? the last on I tried didn't work but I had no way or material for GE and I couldn't afford a GE port or whatever they call it so I was only able to use the tek that only had the silicon injection port. So what can I do to make an LC without contams and a closed GE port that I can also shake without wetting the tyvek of SFD
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twistedty
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19116120 - 11/10/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: RR himself has stated that he has not seen isolates or monocultures outperform MS, so other than ensuring a clean starting culture going agar to lc is a useless step. Even if you start with a clean culture I still would not blindly use a LC, or an agar wedge for that matter, without first testing it. Even with agar you can have hidden contaminants and also introduce contaminants in the transfer. If you have a clean MS syringe and self healing injection ports on your LC jar then it's much safer and easier to simply inject one into the other. Once you know it's clean, and the likelihood that it won't be is the same likelihood as nocing up a grain jar with that MS syringe which I'd hope would be quite low, then you just stick it in the fridge and it'll last you a couple years or more and I doubt you'll run out even if you don't do g2g transfers to expand your spawn unless you're trying to produce them on an industrial scale. It's very common to inoculate spawn with LC in industrial growing for that matter too simply because it is so easy. You think they're taking agar wedges and dropping them into all their spawn bags when they could simply stab and inject down the line?
i would also like a link to where RR says this as well .
i dont even think he does LCs on his dvd.
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krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: twistedty]
#19130321 - 11/13/13 08:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know how to find the quote, I've just seen it many times over the years. I can't say without reading it, but I didn't take it to mean that a good isolate will not outperform a ms grow, but just making an isolate in itself on average the ms grow will do better. In other words you'd have to spend a lot of time testing out various isolates to find one that does better than MS. I never said anything about RR in regards to LC's, he typically does not like them for the same reasons you guys have stated.
Also if you're just growing a few mono's or less then a LC or agar are both a waste of time imo, typically you should only do agar or LC's if you plan to grow a lot or over a long period of time which is why I don't think it's significant that you'll have to wait an additional 2 weeks or so for it to grow and be tested.
As far as LC's vs Agar though I just don't think they're very comparable. Agar is for isolation and LC is for bulk inoculation. Whether you start your LC from agar or ms is irrelevant. Either way you shouldn't start your LC from an unknown source and expect it to be clean, however if you do start it from a clean source there's likewise no reason you should expect it to be dirty.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19130372 - 11/13/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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buy syringe
make sporeprints from the edible mushrooms you grow make liquid culture from the shrooms you grow(from agar isolation) , enough culture for eternity
each sporeprint is enough for several syringes...
LC or sporeprints can be stored for years sporeprints can be stored for eternity (just place the cap of a mushroom on alufoil, let dry,store it)
if you do agar you only need 1 or 2 spores? to germinate, I forgot how it works that lowlevel ;-) which means 1 sporeprint can give you xxx isolations :-)
1 spore print is enough for eternity, if you do agar/LC
syringes have a limited lifetime though iirc... you better use the syringe you made make LC from it, do agar from it, grow from it
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: krypto2000]
#19130730 - 11/13/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
krypto2000 said: Also if you're just growing a few mono's or less then a LC or agar are both a waste of time imo, typically you should only do agar or LC's if you plan to grow a lot or over a long period of time which is why I don't think it's significant that you'll have to wait an additional 2 weeks or so for it to grow and be tested.
As far as LC's vs Agar though I just don't think they're very comparable. Agar is for isolation and LC is for bulk inoculation. Whether you start your LC from agar or ms is irrelevant. Either way you shouldn't start your LC from an unknown source and expect it to be clean, however if you do start it from a clean source there's likewise no reason you should expect it to be dirty.
 I don't even grow a single full sized monotub and agar is my most valuable tool. I'm not looking for yields but I'm looking for quality and clean viable cultures. There's really no time involved. It's all in a pipeline anyway. After the first 2 weeks there's no waiting there's always work.
You think a MS syringe is ever clean?? Unless you're growing in-vitro fruits and then opening the jar in front of a flow hood or in a SAB and then taking a print and then putting that straight to a LC you're not using a clean spore print.
If you start a LC with a needle you should expect it to be dirty.
Inoculation in general(MS or LC) sucks ass for bulk, Period. mycellium expansion is where it's at ala G2G.
Who in their right mind growing bulk would want to inoculate 100 jars with a less-trusty needle....
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (11/13/13 11:01 AM)
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19130751 - 11/13/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Chilled
Out


Registered: 04/21/12
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Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Not disagreeing with what has been said here (been an interesting read) but could you not use MS syringe to get started with WBS jars (in a SAB as good practise IMO) or other grain jar, wait for colonisation, then grain LC some jars and other jars G2G using a SAB and good sterile procedure (just to try both methods to see which I prefer). Then use a bit of colonised grain for Agar work.
I ask this as tried Agar with both MS syringe and a spore print and both were fiddly and not successful, plus I cant see how either would be a very sterile starting point. Clearly it can be done but since you can still get a isolate but starting with something slightly more contam resistant like a bit of grain, would this not be easier?
Love to hear peoples thoughts on this...
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Chilled]
#19130964 - 11/13/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is only one way to be clean... agar
but sometimes you get clean syringes.... if you use a reputable vendor
sometimes there can be bacteria in though...
agar solves it all, and you don't need a flowhood for success still air box
then you can do agar->LC
Never do biopsy -> LC or syringe->LC , if you want to be successful first time same goes for sporeprint ->syringe .. no go.... assume any sporeprint to be contamed
might work first 2 times, and fail on the 3th if you do agar you will get close to 100% success which is much better
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cronicr



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: Chilled] 1
#19130985 - 11/13/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chilled said: Not disagreeing with what has been said here (been an interesting read) but could you not use MS syringe to get started with WBS jars (in a SAB as good practise IMO) or other grain jar, wait for colonisation, then grain LC some jars and other jars G2G using a SAB and good sterile procedure (just to try both methods to see which I prefer). Then use a bit of colonised grain for Agar work.
you sure can
Quote:
Chilled said:
I ask this as tried Agar with both MS syringe and a spore print and both were fiddly and not successful, plus I cant see how either would be a very sterile starting point. Clearly it can be done but since you can still get a isolate but starting with something slightly more contam resistant like a bit of grain, would this not be easier?
Love to hear peoples thoughts on this...
colonized grain works fine, it takes off quickly on agar(because of the lower nutrition level in the agar)
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19132439 - 11/13/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Agar is your best bet
and is easy... once you buy agar agar at your local supermarket/health food store it is a gelatine substitute from seaweed, for vegans
agar is the only way to get growing reliably do it right from start, because before you know you will get contam in everything just do agar from start, save yourself some time
a still air box will make your innoculations more successful and you use that for agar
if you don't do agar... you can keep buying syringes as about the only option else I wouldn't count on reliable growing
search for "oatmeal agar" tek, can recommend that one, works -very- good, mycellium loves it no need for PDA, oatmeal you usually got at home
edit: fixed the misunderstanding, thx for mentioning :-)
Edited by lessismore (11/13/13 06:16 PM)
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: lessismore]
#19132466 - 11/13/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mio said: a glovebox(still air box) will make your innoculations more successful and you use that for agar
A GB(Glove Box) is not the same thing as a SAB(Still Air Box).
A SAB is better for this hobby than a GB because the gloves are attached to you and not the box.
Making it possible to flame sterilize your tool outside the box between transfers.
Also when people try to "seal" their GBs, the spots that they missed(like around the lid) will constantly suck air in and out with your movements.
This will negate the "still air environment"....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (11/13/13 06:12 PM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: PussyFart]
#19132474 - 11/13/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yes, that is what I ment too sorry if it was unclear, fixed it in edit now
still air box is what you want, any high bedroller tub with 2 holes in it so you can get your hands in, and a lid
for agar innoc/transfer: inoculation loop is what is used, or scalpel (innoc loop can be made from twisted wire + a pen) alcohol lamp is a plus and gloves are a plus too, sterilize red hot outside, bring inside
agar will make your life much easier
oatmeal agar is some good stuff..... if you cannot find PDA, or MDA i.e., pda/mda might be easier to mix together initially, dunno
cubensis seems to love oatmeal agar to what I've seen, it's a pretty good tek, grows perfectly - perfect consistency
only downside with oatmeal agar is it can be bothersome to mix together IMO PDA/MDA might be better there , might save time in preparation (no need to extract the juice from oatmeal) benefit is it is very easy to find, PDA/MDA you might not have luck finding
agar is nutrient less, you need some nutrients for your agar, for mycellium to grow in your jars/petris PDA = potato dextrose agar MDA = malt dextrose agar or oatmeal agar
Edited by lessismore (11/13/13 06:28 PM)
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



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Re: Never buy spores again? [Re: bodhisatta]
#19133205 - 11/13/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
I don't even grow a single full sized monotub and agar is my most valuable tool. I'm not looking for yields but I'm looking for quality and clean viable cultures. There's really no time involved. It's all in a pipeline anyway. After the first 2 weeks there's no waiting there's always work.
You think a MS syringe is ever clean?? Unless you're growing in-vitro fruits and then opening the jar in front of a flow hood or in a SAB and then taking a print and then putting that straight to a LC you're not using a clean spore print.
If you start a LC with a needle you should expect it to be dirty.
Inoculation in general(MS or LC) sucks ass for bulk, Period. mycellium expansion is where it's at ala G2G.
Who in their right mind growing bulk would want to inoculate 100 jars with a less-trusty needle....

agar is the best hands down no argument.
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