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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The only reaction I've had has been to your personalism and seeming lack of understanding in regard to the simple concepts which make up nihilism. I've no firm stance on nihilism or any other philosophy and have not claimed to.
I try to be as transparent as possible without totally conflating my MtG persona with my professional one. I have been called all kinds of things, and accused of all kinds of things here. I have been banned for joking with someone with whom I have a relationship, by a moderator who was apparently looking for any opportunity to ban me. I explained my inquiry about your age, and hopefully the explanation was satisfactory.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#19084989 - 11/04/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The only reaction I've had has been to your personalism and seeming lack of understanding in regard to the simple concepts which make up nihilism. I've no firm stance on nihilism or any other philosophy and have not claimed to.
I try to be as transparent as possible without totally conflating my MtG persona with my professional one. I have been called all kinds of things, and accused of all kinds of things here. I have been banned for joking with someone with whom I have a relationship, by a moderator who was apparently looking for any opportunity to ban me. I explained my inquiry about your age, and hopefully the explanation was satisfactory.

So much for that relationship I referred to.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (11/04/13 01:05 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Repertoire89]
#19084991 - 11/04/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The only reaction I've had has been to your personalism and seeming lack of understanding in regard to the simple concepts which make up nihilism. I've no firm stance on nihilism or any other philosophy and have not claimed to.
I try to be as transparent as possible without totally conflating my MtG persona with my professional one. I have been called all kinds of things, and accused of all kinds of things here. I have been banned for joking with someone with whom I have a relationship, by a moderator who was apparently looking for any opportunity to ban me. I explained my inquiry about your age, and hopefully the explanation was satisfactory.
Satisfactory enough for me, I'm apathetic toward this conversation.
Ditto.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 26 days
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: hTx]
#19085004 - 11/04/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The only reaction I've had has been to your personalism and seeming lack of understanding in regard to the simple concepts which make up nihilism. I've no firm stance on nihilism or any other philosophy and have not claimed to.
I try to be as transparent as possible without totally conflating my MtG persona with my professional one. I have been called all kinds of things, and accused of all kinds of things here. I have been banned for joking with someone with whom I have a relationship, by a moderator who was apparently looking for any opportunity to ban me. I explained my inquiry about your age, and hopefully the explanation was satisfactory.

So much for that relationship is referred to. 
Was that me? I'm sure you deserved it then. Bad, bad boy
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 26 days
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#19085321 - 11/04/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: The only reaction I've had has been to your personalism and seeming lack of understanding in regard to the simple concepts which make up nihilism. I've no firm stance on nihilism or any other philosophy and have not claimed to.
I try to be as transparent as possible without totally conflating my MtG persona with my professional one. I have been called all kinds of things, and accused of all kinds of things here. I have been banned for joking with someone with whom I have a relationship, by a moderator who was apparently looking for any opportunity to ban me. I explained my inquiry about your age, and hopefully the explanation was satisfactory.

So much for that relationship is referred to. 
Was that me? I'm sure you deserved it then. Bad, bad boy 
Well, let me ask you then, do you ever consume lemons? I often use them myself.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I had a grapefruit this morning and that's kinda close. It potentiates my Kratom. Seems to really work.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#19086045 - 11/04/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I had a grapefruit this morning and that's kinda close. It potentiates my Kratom. Seems to really work.
Hey I have some grapefruit juice and some kratom, maybe will try. Not sure about drinking today
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Repertoire89]
#19088170 - 11/05/13 12:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Instead of no meaning, what about infinite meaning.
This is logically much the same as nihilism but fundamentally different. One consciously chooses their meaning they give to the world, and which they will create, and will be valid in doing so.
Matchs up with the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
Quantum philosophy.
Whereas nihilism seeks to destroy the artistic meaning we give to the universe by reducing it to nothing, a universe with infinite possibilities seems much more probable. As I have said before, nothing doesn't exist, and we shouldn't have 0 representing nothing but infinity instead.
so why say such a contradictory thing "meaning doesn't exist, or cannot be known" when we CLEARLY give very much meaning to everything we do. It can exist and it can be known, and it also cannot exist and cannot be known but even this..just because it seemingly takes away ones artistry, all meaning..irrelevant, is still an artistic creation.
The meaning created or chosen is still valid, and doesn't 'destroy' the artist, that is to say the human being.
So my logical argument against nihilism isn't necessarily against nihilism, but against the notion of 'nothing' actually existing. Because even in its definition, nothing is nothing, it does not exist and is not even observable in the universe. There is no such thing as a 'nothing' vacuum.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: hTx]
#19088180 - 11/05/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nihilistic argument against nihilism.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: hTx]
#19088653 - 11/05/13 04:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Isn't your argument basically existentialism?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: hTx]
#19089110 - 11/05/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think you understand nihilism. Go back and read my posts, I already addressed that issue.
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
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Last seen: 3 years, 26 days
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#19089778 - 11/05/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I had a grapefruit this morning and that's kinda close. It potentiates my Kratom. Seems to really work.
So if I had said that Icelander eats grapefruit, that would be true, and would not be construed as an insult to your character, and I would not have been banned? Anyway, and you aren't really a sourpuss, you're just kind of sober. Of course, if you're taking kratom like a One-a-Day® vitamin, I'm not so sure of that sobriety. But, I haven't tried kratom yet, so I don't know what it's like. I just take L-Theanine every day, and there's no buzz to that.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Well I had nothing to do with that ban personally and don't remember details. I didn't flag it nor otherwise condone it if memory serves me. You've pissed off those in power and that's rarely a good move.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/05/13 12:42 PM)
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Cactilove]
#19090604 - 11/05/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I believe in the book "The Fundamental Middle Way" translated by last name Garfield, Nagarjuna creates an argument for Mahayana Buddhism against Nihilism...And he does a damn good job IMO.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: Icelander]
#19090719 - 11/05/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Well I had nothing to do with that ban personally and don't remember details. I didn't flag it nor otherwise condone it if memory serves me. You've pissed off those in power and that's rarely a good move.
Yeah, I know you didn't. Water under the bridge, or over the dam. I declined the offer of moderator long ago, before spirituality-mysticism and philosophy-psychology-sociology split into two forums. I never wanted to be a boss. At the age of 18 months, I gave the white Fire Chief's hat to my new friend Paul to wear, while I donned the regular red helmet, the day we met and played fireman in December 1955. Some traits are constant throughout the lifespan. It's the same dynamic that steered me away from wanting to be a father and having to parent a child. I sublimated the desire to guide by becoming a counselor where I could remain fairly detached.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: Arguments Against Nihilism? [Re: hTx]
#19090922 - 11/05/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: Instead of no meaning, what about infinite meaning.
This is logically much the same as nihilism but fundamentally different. One consciously chooses their meaning they give to the world, and which they will create, and will be valid in doing so.
Matchs up with the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
Quantum philosophy.
Whereas nihilism seeks to destroy the artistic meaning we give to the universe by reducing it to nothing, a universe with infinite possibilities seems much more probable. As I have said before, nothing doesn't exist, and we shouldn't have 0 representing nothing but infinity instead.
so why say such a contradictory thing "meaning doesn't exist, or cannot be known" when we CLEARLY give very much meaning to everything we do. It can exist and it can be known, and it also cannot exist and cannot be known but even this..just because it seemingly takes away ones artistry, all meaning..irrelevant, is still an artistic creation.
The meaning created or chosen is still valid, and doesn't 'destroy' the artist, that is to say the human being.
So my logical argument against nihilism isn't necessarily against nihilism, but against the notion of 'nothing' actually existing. Because even in its definition, nothing is nothing, it does not exist and is not even observable in the universe. There is no such thing as a 'nothing' vacuum.
My thought on existential nihilism is in regards to an objective "meaning" to life which doesn't change from person to person.
I tend to think in terms of existential nihilism and feel that my life has more meaning and depth now than it did before that change in mind
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