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brianisswindy
Mellow

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek)
#19084560 - 11/04/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Should I follow RR's PF Tek videos to the t? Or would implementing Citric's Self Healing lid tek benefit, hurt, or even make a difference? Opinions on using tin foil vs. self healing lids using RTV silicone. And if you suggest self healing lids; micropore tape, tyvek filter, or polyfill for the center filter for gas exchange? I read Citric's thread on these lids, but everyone seemed pretty 50-50 on it. So if it's just a matter of personal preference or if one way would benefit more?
Thanks in advance, I appreciate all the quick and knowledgable feedback from all of you, it helps a lot.
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Sagescruffy
CH



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 2,011
Loc: PNW
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: brianisswindy]
#19084637 - 11/04/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you make a modified lid with a filter and SHIP for the pf tek, you wont need the dry verm layer to act as a filter.
-------------------- Love.  
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brianisswindy
Mellow

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: Sagescruffy]
#19084679 - 11/04/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That is my other question; if I were to do that, but also use a dry verm layer, would that hinder or slow gas exchange making for slower colonization? Would it make any difference? Or is it just overkill against fighting contams?
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TheWiz
Happy Little Shroom



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 191
Loc: Southern IL
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: Sagescruffy]
#19084685 - 11/04/13 09:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you make a self-healing lid properly, it should work without contams.
If you follow RR's tek properly, it should work without contams.
Seems like it's just a matter of your own preference.
My suggestion is do both. Getting yourself practiced in a variety of techniques is a good thing I think.
-------------------- I'd hit it.
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brianisswindy
Mellow

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: TheWiz]
#19084697 - 11/04/13 09:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's what I'm asking though, if I followed the Pf Tek with the tin foil lids over the self healing tek lids, would that cause any slower colonization due to a slower/less gas exchange?
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TheWiz
Happy Little Shroom



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 191
Loc: Southern IL
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: brianisswindy]
#19084756 - 11/04/13 10:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
brianisswindy said: That's what I'm asking though, if I followed the Pf Tek with the tin foil lids over the self healing tek lids, would that cause any slower colonization due to a slower/less gas exchange?
I don't know that it would slow things down, but it is completely unnecessary.
The tin foil is there in the PF tek to keep water from seeping in your inoculation holes and wetting the dry vermiculite during the pressure cook.
Self-healing lids are not susceptible to that problem.
When I said "Do both teks," I did not mean on all of the jars. I meant, half the jars 1 tek, and half the jars the other.
-------------------- I'd hit it.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: TheWiz]
#19085012 - 11/04/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You'll still need foil over your jars while they're in the PC, whether or not you use injection ports and a filter or just dry verm.
The biggest difference is that, with proper technique, you could likely get away with doing open-air inoculations with the injection ports.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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brianisswindy
Mellow

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19085077 - 11/04/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's what I'd ultimately prefer. I have nothing against a SAB or glove box by Any means but to save time and money I think self healing lids would be the way to go if open-air inoculation can be performed. But I'm just super sketched out about contams and don't want to have to throw any cakes away so maybe self healing lids along with a dry Verm layer? Overkill? Unnecessary? Super safe? Doesn't make a difference?
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Fapmaster Flex
Absolute newbz


Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 18
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: brianisswindy]
#19098101 - 11/06/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hehe, looks like we asked he exact same question here. Take a look at the thread I just started : http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19059342 I wonder if anyone tested both methods and know which way colonizes faster...
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: brianisswindy]
#19098986 - 11/07/13 04:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
brianisswindy said: That's what I'm asking though, if I followed the Pf Tek with the tin foil lids over the self healing tek lids, would that cause any slower colonization due to a slower/less gas exchange?
The foil serves only one purpose and that's to keep the water which rains down from the lid of the pressure cooker from compromising the verm or other filter layer. The foil gets removed as soon as the jars come out of the PC.
Don't restrict gas exchange. Use a verm filter or synthetic filter disks, or any other filter types, but not all in combination. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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rustycobwebs
Green mold cultivator

Registered: 12/17/05
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19099037 - 11/07/13 05:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yea that would be really bad, super slow growth which actually makes it easier for contaminants to attack the "raw" or uneaten parts in your jar.
pick a filter and stick with it. Dry verm is messy, and your cakes come out slightly smaller, but less work in preparing the actual filter and port lids. I let RTV sit for 24 hours before pressure cooking.
-------------------- and let it be so Praise Psilocybe
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,059
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: rustycobwebs]
#19099147 - 11/07/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I let RTV sit for 24 hours before pressure cooking.
Turns out it will actually cure in the pressure cooker. The heat does the trick. I just wait a half hour to let it vulcanize a little so it doesnt stick to the foil when I cover my jars. Different strokes and all though. I can see why people would just wait over night but I have had to make jar lids literally at the same time my grains were draining. Poor time management there.
Op, I've used both self healing lid methods and the dry verm method. Either one will work fine on its own. Both require putting foil over the lids to keep water from raining down on the filters.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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Fapmaster Flex
Absolute newbz


Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 18
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19102533 - 11/07/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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RR, if we take two indentical jars which BOTH have the verm layer and we switch the 4 "penny nail" holes for a 5/16" hole recovered with a filter disc, do you think it would impair the GE? It seems questionnable which lid would allow more air in... Logically, shouldn't a larger hole make up for the air restriction caused by the filter disc?

Also, is there any data on the exact size of the holes for optimal GE (ie lower colonization time)? It seems that the PF tek was never super precise about this, unless I did not read correctly, which could happen lol.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,059
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Quote:
Fapmaster Flex said: RR, if we take two indentical jars which BOTH have the verm layer and we switch the 4 "penny nail" holes for a 5/16" hole recovered with a filter disc, do you think it would impair the GE? It seems questionnable which lid would allow more air in... Logically, shouldn't a larger hole make up for the air restriction caused by the filter disc?

Also, is there any data on the exact size of the holes for optimal GE (ie lower colonization time)? It seems that the PF tek was never super precise about this, unless I did not read correctly, which could happen lol.
I know your question is directed at RR but in case he doesn't reply I'd like to chime in.
When RR makes his grain lids (for transferring to) he uses only 3 1/16th inch holes. He says that's plenty for GE. Mycelium only needs a certain amount of gas exchange. Anything more than those 3 holes may give you 'more' gas exchange but that doesn't mean it's going to make your mycelium grow any faster when all it needs is the three little holes.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Tin foil vs. Self Healing (PF Tek) [Re: brianisswindy]
#19103039 - 11/07/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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double tinfoil works great. i have never used self healing lids, and consider them largely a waste of money. i have never had a problem with grain or pf in a jar, only time i ever did i used a bit of mycelium from an unclean agar plate transfer. as in, i did not sterilize the petri dishes before hand.
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