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InvisiblehTx
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Reincarnation
    #19083333 - 11/03/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I went through all of my past lives on my first trip on acid whilst in a trance as well as the evolution of the universe.(I took quite a lot though heh)

Reminded me of this poem, just thought I would share.

'A Stone I died

A stone I died and rose again a plant;
A plant I died and rose an animal;
I died an animal and was born a man.
Why should I fear? What have I lost by death?'
Mewlana Jalaluddin Rumi


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: hTx]
    #19083382 - 11/03/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Acid is one helluva drug. :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: hTx]
    #19083936 - 11/04/13 01:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was you in a past life.  I committed suicide. :whoa:

(just yoking)  (I think)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Icelander]
    #19084295 - 11/04/13 06:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Don't joke around Ice. I saw myself living life of everyone that ever lived, lives and will live... time wasn't really seen as dynamic at that point. The one having the experience was one and the same! The One! And what's worse, I was sober.
I don't know if all of this is true, but I've been trying to live with awarenes of it on my mind as I go... treat everyone as they are me and today it doesn't even matter if it's true or not, but it's a way better life with this attitude for certain.
The only annoying thing is, shortly after everyone started saying 'We're all one'. Not that they weren't before but it just got really trendy for some reason... and nobody has a clue what they're talking about!


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It's fine.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: cbub]
    #19084739 - 11/04/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Don't joke around Ice

:wouldyoulookatthat:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecbub
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Icelander]
    #19085153 - 11/04/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Icelander]
    #19088069 - 11/04/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I was you in a past life.  I committed suicide. :whoa:

(just yoking)  (I think)



:ooo:

Welllll thnks for ruining the ending! :tongue2:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: cbub]
    #19088123 - 11/05/13 12:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cbub said:
Don't joke around Ice. I saw myself living life of everyone that ever lived, lives and will live... time wasn't really seen as dynamic at that point. The one having the experience was one and the same! The One! And what's worse, I was sober.
I don't know if all of this is true, but I've been trying to live with awarenes of it on my mind as I go... treat everyone as they are me and today it doesn't even matter if it's true or not, but it's a way better life with this attitude for certain.
The only annoying thing is, shortly after everyone started saying 'We're all one'. Not that they weren't before but it just got really trendy for some reason... and nobody has a clue what they're talking about!





Elitist much?
Your experience has no more credibility than anyone else's experience who claims to understand "We're all one."


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Offlinecbub
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: cez]
    #19088496 - 11/05/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:
Like I said, I don't even know if it's true and even less better than anyone else's .

I am very happy when I hear somebody say it, just to find out that they just say it because it's trendy and it's a cool line to say.
Goes well with their Gaiatm hoodie and celtic pendant, you know?


//edit: Actually, it's true I'm biased here, have to admit. When it's said that 'we are all one' means 'we are one humanity, each individual like a cell, no countries or religion too, imagine all the people living life in peace :fasted:
I believe such definition of oneness to be a general misconception. But on the other hand, such belief is healthy to society and it still makes me happy to be around such people. There's other topics to converse about.


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It's fine.


Edited by cbub (11/05/13 03:04 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: hTx]
    #19088659 - 11/05/13 04:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I was you in a past life.  I committed suicide. :whoa:

(just yoking)  (I think)



:ooo:

Welllll thnks for ruining the ending! :tongue2:



:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHalfLight
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: hTx]
    #19091478 - 11/05/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Reincarnation as the idea that you have had the same soul in different bodies seems pretty silly to me :loldongs:

Reincarnation as the idea that your existing life will become life in different forms though :jackiechanofapproval:

When I die I assume that I'll be "reincarnated" as a large variety of bacteria, flesh consuming insects, plants with roots near my deceased body, fungi, and other things that enjoy a tasty carcass.
Hell that process is going on right now, my skin dies and falls off to be consumed by a plethora of beings all the time, and I get bug bites more often than I'd like :crankey:
Bugs which eat me will get eaten by birds/rodents which might get eaten by humans, but are more likely to be eaten by a slightly larger life form that might also get eaten by a human, but the cycle could continue.
I'll probably get eaten by some hungry human one day though! :lol:
Maybe those plants will get eaten by a human at which point the energy from my cells will be used by a self aware consciousness in a slightly quicker and... less gross fashion.
If I really wanna become human again quickly, I can find a friendly cannibal somewhere.
Or I could pull a Tupac and have my friends throw the ashes from my incineration in a blunt  :smoker:

If we really want to stick to the idea that some form of your consciousness will be sustained through reincarnation though, I'm definitely gonna buy a bunch of slow lorises and starve them as I'm on my deathbed, then have them released upon my body. I mean how could you not want to live life as a group of these bastards?


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19095218 - 11/06/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Terrific post, TryinToTrip.

The traditional Eastern idea of reincarnation -- that "I" -- my soul, my being -- gets re-manifested in another body is simply another manifestation of "fear of death and dying." 

Fear of death and dying is the cash cow that fuels much of institutional religion, Eastern and Western. 

That's why both Eastern and Western traditions hawk it so much.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: hTx]
    #19095497 - 11/06/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



I'll be back!


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19096545 - 11/06/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The traditional Eastern idea of reincarnation -- that "I" -- my soul, my being -- gets re-manifested in another body is simply another manifestation of "fear of death and dying." 




"simply" eh. Yea thats pretty damn simple. A conclusion a bit too simple in my view. You basically just sum up all of mankinds higher thinking over the ages, all the philosophical arguments and different metaphysical views as nothing but a fear of death? lol such a narrow short sighted view no doubt.


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..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #19096703 - 11/06/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't call making up silly stories to be a form of 'higher thinking'.


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Offlinemeatables
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19096946 - 11/06/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So does physics have any space here.... consciousness = energy = neither created nor destroyed....

So does your electricity (conciousness or soul) change state or form when u die?

It obviously goes somewhere... not turned into heat or sound or the like... doesn't just disperse...

Gets reclaimed by the collective to be redistributed among living (or non) things?


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Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you!


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19097057 - 11/06/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well I had never really considered reincarnation before the experience, and even though I had the experience, I was on drugs so I cannot give to much credence.

It did, however, :mindblown:


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19097188 - 11/06/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Consciousness is a property of the brain and is not energy.

Physics fail.

:failboat:


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OfflineScarab74
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19097218 - 11/06/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

meatables said:
So does physics have any space here.... consciousness = energy = neither created nor destroyed....

So does your electricity (conciousness or soul) change state or form when u die?

It obviously goes somewhere... not turned into heat or sound or the like... doesn't just disperse...

Gets reclaimed by the collective to be redistributed among living (or non) things?




Physics makes the world go 'round. :thumbup:


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~Scarab74
We are such stuff as dreams are made of.
                W. Shakespeare - The Tempest


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Offlinemeatables
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19097329 - 11/06/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Consciousness is a property of the brain and is not energy.

Physics fail.

:failboat:




The brain runs on electricity which is a form of energy...

No brain electricity = dead = no conciousness

I don't see your argument


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Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you!


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19097338 - 11/06/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Information is not energy and does not get reclaimed.

Feels like grade school in here.


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OfflineScarab74
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19097462 - 11/06/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I respectfully disagree.

Think about information transmitted by a cpu to another cpu via the Internet.  Information (0's and1's) from a cpu is converted into electrical voltage (+5/-5) to be converted by a diode into light impulses tranported through a fiber-optic cable to be converted back into electrical voltage which is translated and executed by a cpu to be then dissipated into the atmosphere as heat which is captured in some way and recycled.

I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.


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~Scarab74
We are such stuff as dreams are made of.
                W. Shakespeare - The Tempest


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Offlinemeatables
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19098359 - 11/06/13 11:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't believe that my being (conciousness) will be preserved intact upon death and transmitted to another vessel capable of utilizing said info in a meaningful or coherent way... just that my being is energy... and when I die it is not going to be destroyed but transformed....

I don't agree with a lot of philosophies on life after death but I do know one thing for sure....

We don't know anything about what happens to our being after our brain looses its ability to produce/use its electricity...

I like to think of what does happen as do many ppl... reincarnation sounds shitty to me though...

Sounds like any other religion... do what I say or suffer the consequences.


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Just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you!


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19099929 - 11/07/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Scarab74 said:
I respectfully disagree.

Think about information transmitted by a cpu to another cpu via the Internet.  Information (0's and1's) from a cpu is converted into electrical voltage (+5/-5) to be converted by a diode into light impulses tranported through a fiber-optic cable to be converted back into electrical voltage which is translated and executed by a cpu to be then dissipated into the atmosphere as heat which is captured in some way and recycled.

I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.





Haha! Only thing missing from that was, who's in gradeschool now bitch!!
:datass:


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19099965 - 11/07/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Scarab74 said:
I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.



Good point.

Science tells us that nothing truly gets created or destroyed.  This is a basic tenet of science.  So, where does the internal "stuff" that constitutes you go after you die?

The answer, I think, falls under the category of "forbidden knowledge" to human beings.  If knowing the answer were in the interest of preserving and advancing our species, we'd know the answer and there would be no debate. 

But no one knows, and if someone tells you they know, they're charlatans.  Probably trying to sell you something or make you honor them.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19099986 - 11/07/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Scarab74 said:
I respectfully disagree.

Think about information transmitted by a cpu to another cpu via the Internet.  Information (0's and1's) from a cpu is converted into electrical voltage (+5/-5) to be converted by a diode into light impulses tranported through a fiber-optic cable to be converted back into electrical voltage which is translated and executed by a cpu to be then dissipated into the atmosphere as heat which is captured in some way and recycled.

I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.




:blah:

Disagree all you want and you are still wrong. Energy has a very specific meaning in science, ignoring New Agey hogwash. Perhaps you can tell us how many pico-joules in the word 'reincarnation'. That's right! It makes no sense because there is no equivalency.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: all this beauty]
    #19100007 - 11/07/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.

Good point.

Science tells us that nothing truly gets created or destroyed.  This is a basic tenet of science.  So, where does the internal "stuff" that constitutes you go after you die?






Jesus Christ! What an uneducated group. It is a horrible point. Information does not come under the purview of the Law of Conservation of Energy and Matter. Not even close.



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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19100071 - 11/07/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Jesus Christ! What an uneducated group. It is a horrible point. Information does not come under the purview of the Law of Conservation of Energy and Matter. Not even close.



Wow.  Anger issues.  Hope you're on treatment.  :wink:

Your use of the word "information" serves only your limited insights.  The "stuff" that animates you is more than mere electricity, chemical processes, and "information."

That might come across as mystic mumble-jumble to you -- and if so, that's cool.

Not everyone is mystically-oriented.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: cbub]
    #19100095 - 11/07/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cbub said:
Don't joke around Ice. I saw myself living life of everyone that ever lived, lives and will live... time wasn't really seen as dynamic at that point. The one having the experience was one and the same! The One! And what's worse, I was sober.
I don't know if all of this is true, but I've been trying to live with awarenes of it on my mind as I go... treat everyone as they are me and today it doesn't even matter if it's true or not, but it's a way better life with this attitude for certain.
The only annoying thing is, shortly after everyone started saying 'We're all one'. Not that they weren't before but it just got really trendy for some reason... and nobody has a clue what they're talking about!




Me2, seems that is normal on LSD :-D

I know we are all the same inside, beneath our outer layer

All very similar.. you are me, I am you and everything, everything is one.. equally great soul in every living creature

Also died a few times that night, dont even know how many times, many new lives, many releases from this world and its attachments.. everything changed after that, new person next day and ever since but didnt know at first, my old self just vanished

peace, love, unity , same love in all living creatures , same soul
and same problems we all face in life often.... very very similar problems often

I see myself in everybody often, so I try to treat others like myself like you mention
if I am frustrated about others, I am frustrated about myself :-)


Edited by lessismore (11/07/13 12:05 PM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19100097 - 11/07/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Scarab74 said:
I respectfully disagree.

Think about information transmitted by a cpu to another cpu via the Internet.  Information (0's and1's) from a cpu is converted into electrical voltage (+5/-5) to be converted by a diode into light impulses tranported through a fiber-optic cable to be converted back into electrical voltage which is translated and executed by a cpu to be then dissipated into the atmosphere as heat which is captured in some way and recycled.

I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.




Great point. :thumbup:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: all this beauty]
    #19100117 - 11/07/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why are you and others trying to pass off total misinformation as factual? That is very uncool.

I have a Masters in EE and a minor in physics. I don't just make shit up to sound deep to other befuddled drop-outs.

Now if you want to actually address my point, I would be happy to consider your information to energy equivalency formula. There might be a Nobel prize in there. Or you could recant your nonsense. Either is fine.


Do an experiment. Take an old CD and smash it to bits with a hammer. All of the matter (and energy) is still there, but the songs have gone bye-bye. Forever. They didn't reincarnate or go to information heaven. The patterns have been destroyed.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19100198 - 11/07/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Much misunderstandings in trying to apply science that's relevant only to the material to spirit. One cheesey, the other chalky. :grin:


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19100205 - 11/07/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have three doctorates degrees and a certification from clown school, I said all that so listen to meee!
:curbyourenthusiasm:


Edited by Yogi1 (11/07/13 12:23 PM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Yogi1]
    #19100250 - 11/07/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Look, this is very simple. Believe in reincarnation because it appeals to you emotionally, but don't go bringing in some scientific concept that you do not understand properly to support it.

The Laws of Thermodynamics have nothing to do with me or my personality.

Being proud of one's ignorance is just plain sad.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19100300 - 11/07/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The glove does not fit the foot fine fellow. :smirk:


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19100337 - 11/07/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Why are you and others trying to pass off total misinformation as factual? I have a Masters in EE and a minor in physics. I don't just make shit up to sound deep to other befuddled drop-outs.



I bow to you, O Learned One, and kiss the hem of thy shmata.

All mystics, from all ages, religions and stripes, are unanimous on one point:  There is something "there."

It's veiled and untouchable and unspeakable, but it's there.

Now, you with all your science degrees may wish to believe that that's all hogwash -- and that the "there" goes away upon death, like a banana peel going away after the banana is eaten.

Fine.

Like the old ditty says, "whaddever gets ya through the night...."


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: all this beauty]
    #19100484 - 11/07/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Increasing the noise level, i.e. not responding to what was actually written, is never helpful. This sort of hand-waving goes on all the time by those who cannot properly address a point.

Several members and a few cheerleaders brought up an invalid scientific argument that was trounced. It has nothing to do with mystics and history and spirituality, but a very specific relationship that was presented and countered.

A person not stuck in ego would refute or recant, or heaven forbid - actually learn something. Those stuck in ego dance around and go off on tangents to distract.



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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19100496 - 11/07/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The glove does not fit the foot fine fellow. :smirk:




The fact that you use Latin in your sig makes me tend to believe that you value education. Is that correct?


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19100588 - 11/07/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's no Latin in my sig but there is a lesson. :grin:


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19100589 - 11/07/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Several members and a few cheerleaders brought up an invalid scientific argument that was trounced. It has nothing to do with mystics and history and spirituality, but a very specific relationship that was presented and countered.



I can't speak for anyone else.  Me, I'm simply suggesting that there is a "something" within us that is eternal and does not go away -- like a song on a smashed CD goes away, to use your analogy.  Others have suggested that in this thread, too.  For some reason, the thought seems to freak you out.

I expressed, earlier in this thread, my personal belief that it isn't "me" that hangs around after my body dies.  Not something that can be identified as "me" and that migrates into another living organism.  It's way way too mysterious and wondrous for that.

In my opinion, of course.  :wink:

Answer this question for me, please:

Do you recognize the possibility that there is something mysterious and wondrous out there -- something that science cannot explain or touch?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: all this beauty]
    #19100989 - 11/07/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What 'freaks me out' is people attempting to advance their pet hypothesis using faulty science. Capische?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101050 - 11/07/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Please explain in quotations.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: all this beauty]
    #19101196 - 11/07/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is a discussion on reincarnation... what one does or does not believe... to make an argument for said belief and if possible show evidence forsaid argument... blatently telling people they are wrong and spouting credentials to back up your belief is close minded imo...

I don't believe nor support the idea of reincarnation but I am willing to accept the fact that we don't know... if science can prove yes or no I'd be more than happy to accept those findings... u must agree that there is no evidence for or against the idea of reincarnation... don't refute claims and ideas because u believe them to be uneducated...

Even with said credentials u know as much as anyone else on the subject and ur opinions are just as meaningful as ne one else's... in fact I agree with u about the transfer of hard data across a medium intact to be far fetched and against logic...

My argument is that we are uninformed on the subject... I just don't see without a measurable change of state of the electricity in the brain that it becomes nonexistent... it goes somewhere... the energy in your brains does something when ur physical body dies and that's the basis of the argument....

As stated above possibly a no fly zone for us weak minded creatures... the answer doesn't prove a necessity to our existence... I just don't rule out any ones belief that can not be proven... that's ignorance imo


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19101242 - 11/07/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

don't refute claims and ideas because u believe them to be uneducated...




Has nothing to do with my personal belief. They are uneducated.

6th time now for the pig-headed: Information has no direct relationship to energy; therefore to advance the Law of Conservation of Energy as an argument for continuation has no merit. None. This is not opinion.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19101374 - 11/07/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

meatables said:
I don't believe nor support the idea of reincarnation but I am willing to accept the fact that we don't know... if science can prove yes or no I'd be more than happy to accept those findings... u must agree that there is no evidence for or against the idea of reincarnation... don't refute claims and ideas because u believe them to be uneducated...



Agree.

However, just because science can't disprove something doesn't mean it's possible and we shouldn't dismiss it.

Science can't "disprove" the existence of Santa Claus, but discerning adults (and some discerning children) rule out his existence.  I can't "prove" that I don't have an invisible third eye on my forehead, but my powers of discernment permit me to rule out the possibility.

If there were no power of discernment to rely on, we couldn't believe -- or disbelieve -- anything.  And what a shitty world that would be.

With regard to the possibility that there's something in the human psyche/being that migrates elsewhere -- or never, in fact, leaves the scene -- after bodily death, I think the idea is compatible with what we know about energy -- that it's never created or destroyed. 

It merely migrates elsewhere.  Changes form.  Or stays put, invisible and undetectable by us.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101464 - 11/07/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

don't refute claims and ideas because u believe them to be uneducated...




Has nothing to do with my personal belief. They are uneducated.

6th time now for the pig-headed: Information has no direct relationship to energy; therefore to advance the Law of Conservation of Energy as an argument for continuation has no merit. None. This is not opinion.




Its a nitpick at a scientific definition of energy. Really.

Reincarnation itself is being so undefined and broad that to merely say the word is not saying much at all.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Yogi1]
    #19101590 - 11/07/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Its a nitpick at a scientific definition of energy.




This is the type of retardation I rail against. The Law Of Conservation of Energy is highly specific as to terms and equations and is not subject to the uneducated reinterpreting it on-the-fly it to make a non-point about some favored hypothesis.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Scarab74]
    #19101658 - 11/07/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why are you guys talking about "something there which is unknown" and the like
Vague statements without support make you look unintelligent :tongue2:
Are you trying to say that there is some sort of post-death life?
As I've already outlined, this is supported by science, and verified by simple observations of the world around us.

Here's an experiment for you spiritual folk to try:
Go outside and kill a small, wild rodent (in compliance with laws in your area).
Return 24 hours later.
Observe all the things which have consumed - and may still be consuming - the carcass.
Here is your glorious life after death :mygoditsfullofstars:


Quote:

Scarab74 said:
I respectfully disagree.

Think about information transmitted by a cpu to another cpu via the Internet.  Information (0's and1's) from a cpu is converted into electrical voltage (+5/-5) to be converted by a diode into light impulses tranported through a fiber-optic cable to be converted back into electrical voltage which is translated and executed by a cpu to be then dissipated into the atmosphere as heat which is captured in some way and recycled.

I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.



This is interesting to take into account, but the neurons which send and interpret the electricity in your brain rapidly decay for eight hours after death.

If someone is really dedicated to the notion that their existing consciousness should exist after their body decays, they should make efforts to forward technology which could transfer, interpret, and store the brain's information digitally. They should also make efforts to create software which could provide a virtual shell of a brain to think using information from your physical one.
Think about it guys, we could theoretically clone "souls"!


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101670 - 11/07/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Its a nitpick at a scientific definition of energy.




This is the type of retardation I rail against. The Law Of Conservation of Energy is highly specific as to terms and equations and is not subject to the uneducated reinterpreting it on-the-fly it to make a non-point about some favored hypothesis.




No I mean your thinking of a completely different concept than some of the other people here are. :tard:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19101678 - 11/07/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
Why are you guys talking about "something there which is unknown" and the like
Vague statements without support make you look unintelligent :tongue2:
Are you trying to say that there is some sort of post-death life?
As I've already outlined, this is supported by science, and verified by simple observations of the world around us.

Here's an experiment for you spiritual folk to try:
Go outside and kill a small, wild rodent (in compliance with laws in your area).
Return 24 hours later.
Observe all the things which have consumed - and may still be consuming - the carcass.
Here is your glorious life after death :mygoditsfullofstars:


Quote:

Scarab74 said:
I respectfully disagree.

Think about information transmitted by a cpu to another cpu via the Internet.  Information (0's and1's) from a cpu is converted into electrical voltage (+5/-5) to be converted by a diode into light impulses tranported through a fiber-optic cable to be converted back into electrical voltage which is translated and executed by a cpu to be then dissipated into the atmosphere as heat which is captured in some way and recycled.

I'm not defending the notion of reincarnation per se but simply the notion of conservation of matter & energy.



This is interesting to take into account, but the neurons which send and interpret the electricity in your brain rapidly decay for eight hours after death.

If someone is really dedicated to the notion that their existing consciousness should exist after their body decays, they should make efforts to forward technology which could transfer, interpret, and store the brain's information digitally. They should also make efforts to create software which could provide a virtual shell of a brain to think using information from your physical one.
Think about it guys, we could theoretically clone "souls"!




I like this guy, he smart. Orgone done went twinkies in here.

Edit- we can clone physical matter with the right tech, so cloning people in their entirety would be a matter of time.


Edited by Yogi1 (11/07/13 04:48 PM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Yogi1]
    #19101716 - 11/07/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
I like this guy, he smart. Orgone done went twinkies in here.

Edit- we can clone physical matter with the right tech, so cloning people in their entirety would be a matter of time.



Thanks!

I think digital cloning would benefit us more in the long run. We could create shared virtual realities that give legitimate equality to all people, with laws pertaining to science that would prevent death and physical harm of each other.

Or we could create personal virtual realities where we could just do whatever :feelsgoodman:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Yogi1]
    #19101735 - 11/07/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Read, study, learn!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Note that there is only ONE legitimate interpretation.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101775 - 11/07/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So what was your point? You think that consciousness is neither matter nor energy but instead is information? or "the result of informational processing of the brain" ?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19101818 - 11/07/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He who assumes understanding of spirit to be something that is learned on a level of science rather than on an exclusive level of it's own is uneducated and spiritless indeed! :grin:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #19101819 - 11/07/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So what was your point?




I was very clear ever single time. Which part are you struggling with that I have not made very explicit? And please leave the straw-men outside.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101834 - 11/07/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm certain Yogi already knew this, I can't remember not knowing such information.
How does this relate to electricity being a form of energy which can be interpreted as data?


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101853 - 11/07/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Read, study, learn!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

Note that there is only ONE legitimate interpretation.




Ha. I love how pissed you're getting because people arent agreeing with you.

I'm atheist but hell really no reason to yell at people because one person described a personal different take on said theory. That was 1 person in the thread.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19101864 - 11/07/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
He who assumes understanding of spirit to be something that is learned on a level of science rather than on an exclusive level of it's own is uneducated and spiritless indeed! :grin:




I used to believe in evolution - then I read some posts here.

Here is the lowdown: don't attempt to use science that you don't understand to make a case for which it does not apply.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19101878 - 11/07/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
He who assumes understanding of spirit to be something that is learned on a level of science rather than on an exclusive level of it's own is uneducated and spiritless indeed! :grin:



I remember how awful it was living my life in denial :sad:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Yogi1]
    #19101895 - 11/07/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

That was 1 person in the thread.




One person points out an error and other 5 others jump on him for educating and back up the person making the error. That is plain moronic.

Facts are not consensual. They stand alone.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101927 - 11/07/13 05:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Here is the lowdown: don't attempt to use science that you don't understand to make a case for which it does not apply.




I haven't used science given that it's not applicable though despite my efforts I think that message has been missed in every instance! :grin:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101950 - 11/07/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
He who assumes understanding of spirit to be something that is learned on a level of science rather than on an exclusive level of it's own is uneducated and spiritless indeed! :grin:




I used to believe in evolution - then I read some posts here.

Here is the lowdown: don't attempt to use science that you don't understand to make a case for which it does not apply.




If I'm not mistaken the only science eluded to was the conservation of energy...

Also I don't see anyone giving any argument for the transfer of data intact from being to being...

The brain uses electricity to function... disrupt the electricity u disrupt the being... remove the electricity the being is no longer a being it is inanimate...

The argument as I see it is what happens to the energy that makes us us when it stops making us us...

Law of conservation of energy says it still exists just not in the same form... am I incorrect or misled or uneducated?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19101960 - 11/07/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The energy in our cells that powers 'us' will be mostly released as heat upon death.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/07/13 07:38 PM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19101994 - 11/07/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The energy in our cells that powers 'us' will be mostly released as heat upon death.




Yet there is no evidence to support your theory... does that make it wrong? Absolutely not... its just an opinion like everyone else's albeit a concise and educated one...

Now the next logical step is to prove this idea... since I am unaware of such an investigation I'm assuming it hasn't occured...

Next, where does the energy u are born/develop with come from? Is it some other form of energy that is transformed into a viable source for life/consciousness? It definitely isn't created from nothing... I would like to hear your thoughts


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19102098 - 11/07/13 06:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The energy in our cells that powers 'us' will be mostly released as heat upon death.




Interestingly the same ultimate behavior in the big rip. Universe = mind blown


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19102121 - 11/07/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why didn't you respond to my question earlier Orgone?

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
One person points out an error and other 5 others jump on him for educating and back up the person making the error. That is plain moronic.



I hope you don't see me as one of those people, I don't believe I've backed up any error in this thread.

Quote:

Facts are not consensual. They stand alone.



I digress, this thread is a perfect example. You don't think different perceptions completely alter realities between individuals?
Even if you don't, there are obviously individuals here who aren't consenting to what you view as fact.


I hope you don't view this as attacking you. I legitimately value your opinion and knowledge, and am enjoying your responses. I don't think the few disagreements I have with what you've said have been unreasonable either.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: meatables]
    #19102494 - 11/07/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yet there is no evidence to support your theory...




I have not posited a theory nor an opinion, but a biological fact. Cell entropy results in heat, some tiny amount of light and various chemical reactions.

All of this information is readily available.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19102510 - 11/07/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

You don't think different perceptions completely alter realities between individuals?





Why would you commingle 'fact' with 'perception'? The number of people believing in something does not alter its factual nature in the slightest. For hundreds of years people thought tobacco smoking was benign. Reality didn't agree and reality always wins.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19102565 - 11/07/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Before you can regard anything as fact, you'd need to know you are living in fact.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19102721 - 11/07/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think this thread is gold. Really.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Yogi1]
    #19102783 - 11/07/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
I think this thread is gold. Really.




:cheers:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19102990 - 11/07/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Yet there is no evidence to support your theory...




I have not posited a theory nor an opinion, but a biological fact. Cell entropy results in heat, some tiny amount of light and various chemical reactions.

All of this information is readily available.





I'm not entirely convinced... there are laws which govern entropy, cells being made of matter then intrinsically follow these laws... however I have come across no information on the release of cellular electricity as heat in either oncosis or apoptosis... I don't disagree with u as the transformation of electricity to heat and light is a regular occurence and measurable... I do disagree that anyone has proven your theory of cell death producing light and heat or any other kind of measurable energy... either it doesn't occur or it is beyond our technological advances to percieve such an occurrence. ..


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19103594 - 11/08/13 12:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
He who assumes understanding of spirit to be something that is learned on a level of science rather than on an exclusive level of it's own is uneducated and spiritless indeed! :grin:




I used to believe in evolution - then I read some posts here.

Here is the lowdown: don't attempt to use science that you don't understand to make a case for which it does not apply.



As if you understand evolution haha

You keep thinking evolution is a strictly physical phenomena and refuse to see that it occurs within the mind, culture, and within a persons lifetime as well.

Just playing video games for instance, can increase gray matter in the brain, a positive evolutionary mutation which occurs through an invention that came from human culture. It is in this way that humans have 'accelerated' evolutionary patterns, and why we have developed so quickly.

There was an event near the time we figured out how to write that some scientists call "the big brain" due to the explosion of intelligence/brain size we experienced in such a short amount of time.

Also, lets say that we figure out technology to 'regrow' a head after its been chopped off.

Do you think the memories would still be intact or not?


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Edited by hTx (11/08/13 12:16 AM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19103679 - 11/08/13 12:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Why are you and others trying to pass off total misinformation as factual? That is very uncool.

I have a Masters in EE and a minor in physics. I don't just make shit up to sound deep to other befuddled drop-outs.

Now if you want to actually address my point, I would be happy to consider your information to energy equivalency formula. There might be a Nobel prize in there. Or you could recant your nonsense. Either is fine.


Do an experiment. Take an old CD and smash it to bits with a hammer. All of the matter (and energy) is still there, but the songs have gone bye-bye. Forever. They didn't reincarnate or go to information heaven. The patterns have been destroyed.



The songs are still somewhere, they just are not able to function properly because the cd is smashed. they still exist in another realm (the internet for example)
analogy fail.

also debate fail, with your appeal to authority as you being the authority with some more than likely non-existent degrees.

...here comes the flamage.  :firecum:


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Edited by hTx (11/08/13 12:48 AM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #19103701 - 11/08/13 12:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

don't refute claims and ideas because u believe them to be uneducated...




Has nothing to do with my personal belief. They are uneducated.

6th time now for the pig-headed: Information has no direct relationship to energy; therefore to advance the Law of Conservation of Energy as an argument for continuation has no merit. None. This is not opinion.



Where is your proof that consciousness = strictly information? You cannot just assume such things, where is your science supporting this theory?
Also, there is such a thing called conservation of information...did ya know that?

Nd you getting all butthurt over all the 'faulty' science here yet here you are, propagating your own. :lol:

You act like you understand what consciousness is, how it works, what its capable of, when it ends..

Maybe your the one who deserves a nobel prize, since most every scientist in the world would agree that consciousness is one of the greatest mysteries that science faces today.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: hTx]
    #19271570 - 12/13/13 04:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: soldatheero]
    #19273306 - 12/14/13 02:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Trying to apply a science (which is relative to physical) to spiritual is like trying to fit a square block into a round hole and attempting to do so accentuates the degree of a persons entire miscomprehension of spiritual.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273318 - 12/14/13 02:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well that's not true.
What if someone worships the sun because it provides them and everything around them with life?
They do physically worship the sun, and the sun's light and heat provide the energy which all living things on Earth feed off of.
Science verifies the physical reality, and the theoretical person's spirituality coincides with it.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19273348 - 12/14/13 03:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Spiritual does not coincide with physical.

By definition (of Dictionary.com) "coincide" means:
"to occupy the same place in space, the same point or period in time, or the same relative position".

Spiritual resides in the eternal whereas physical is in strict adherence with linear time relative to the protocols of it's science.

If someone worships the sun they are placing their faith in physical.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273365 - 12/14/13 03:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

From which dictionary are you finding your definition of spiritual?

Under Merriam-webster:
1 - of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit
2a - of or relating to sacred matters
b - ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal
3 - concerned with religious values
4 - related or joined in spirit
5a - of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b - of, relating to, or involving spiritualism

The theoretical person's beliefs are completely spiritual, fitting definitions 1-4, especially number 1.
The spirit's first definition by Merriam-Webster is an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms.
This completely supports the example belief I gave as one that is spiritual and has direct correspondence with physical reality as verified by science.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273375 - 12/14/13 03:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
From which dictionary are you finding your definition of spiritual?

Under Merriam-webster:
1 - of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit
2a - of or relating to sacred matters
b - ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal
3 - concerned with religious values
4 - related or joined in spirit
5a - of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
b - of, relating to, or involving spiritualism

The theoretical person's beliefs are completely spiritual, fitting definitions 1-4, especially number 1.
The spirit's first definition by Merriam-Webster is an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms.
This completely supports the example belief I gave as one that is spiritual and has direct correspondence with physical reality as verified by science.




A dictionary cannot express the ineffable pertaining to a realm to which it doesn't belong. Q.E.D.

At best it renders something so vague it's meaningless, bound by it's own constructs, which although practical for it's application, has no external relevance.  The same is true of science.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/14/13 03:33 AM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273402 - 12/14/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing which is ineffable can be expressed linguistically.
That is its very definition.
What would it matter the realm it belonged to?
Anything ineffable can't be communicated by language, thus definition and the dictionary are null.
I have however provided the definition of spiritual, and can for physical if you'd like, so these things are obviously not ineffable.

Do you perhaps mean that a dictionary cannot be applied to the physical realm?
It can and it does apply to the physical realm, which is why the words you say can be interpreted and comprehended by other English speakers.
These would be sound vibrations traveling from your throat, through the air, meeting tiny bones in another person's ear, converted to electrical impulses and sent to along the auditory nerve to your brain.
This is a series of physical events which have no purpose without defining them, lest you find great value in the park of a dog or a baby's gibberish.

Or did you mean it can't be applied to the spiritual realm?
This is a bible dictionary http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/
It defines words which relate to the primary religious text of Christianity.
It is spiritual because 2a - it is of or relating to sacred matters, and 3 - is concerned with religious values.
This dictionary has just been expressed using another dictionary's definition to describe it.

So is there a reason that you are arguing statements for which you have provided no evidence?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273407 - 12/14/13 03:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Wordpicking will not help us here.
It's obvious, at least for me, that spiritually worshipping the sun and scientifically knowing about its life-giving properties are two sides of the same coin.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273426 - 12/14/13 04:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Your edit doesn't make sense either.

How can a dictionary render something so vague that it's meaningless?
It provides the full meaning (ie definition) of involved words.
This is giving meaning, and we apply this meaning and further it by using words to communicate.

The universe in itself is bound by its own constructs, however this doesn't render it meaningless.
If anything it builds upon its own legitimacy by continuing to follow the physics and chemistry which it created for itself and is bound/defined by.

No external relevance?
A dictionary's application is what gives it external relevance.
Previous to that it is simply a book or an electronic reading with words and their meaning.
The definitions within it are provided by experts in the English language (in the situation of it being an English dictionary) and used by nonexperts to better comprehend English, these are external to English expertise.

Perhaps your inferred use of external was referring to outside of use in the mind.
I could use paper within the dictionary to light a fire and stay warm, or if it was electronic I could shut it off, conserving energy.
I could hit someone who is annoying me with the dictionary.
I could use its pages as toilet paper.
These are actions involving a dictionary which have use other than mentally, and other than the original intent of its creators.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19273443 - 12/14/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No definition listed pertains to spirit adhering to the laws of the physical as an exclusive entity regardless if it's part of a necessary compound of life.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/14/13 08:07 AM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19273901 - 12/14/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lolwut:
The first definition of spirit from Merriam-Webster which I gave earlier: an animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms.
So spirit by definition would adhere to the laws of the physical, seeing as no physical organisms avoid the laws of physics.
How is whether or not it's an "exclusive entity" in any form relevant?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19273921 - 12/14/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
Well that's not true.
What if someone worships the sun because it provides them and everything around them with life?
They do physically worship the sun, and the sun's light and heat provide the energy which all living things on Earth feed off of.
Science verifies the physical reality, and the theoretical person's spirituality coincides with it.





I approve of Sun worship. :nicesmile:


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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Icelander]
    #19273943 - 12/14/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't practice it or know anyone who does, but it seems more legitimate than worship of deities in most organized religions to me :lol:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight] * 1
    #19274179 - 12/14/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I practice it.  I have a lounge chair alter with a thick cushion and I stretch out on that sucker with some good tunes on sunny days and commune with the glory.  :stonesun:  :mjk:  :awegroove:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19274405 - 12/14/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
So spirit by definition would adhere to the laws of the physical, seeing as no physical organisms avoid the laws of physics.





Spirit is not a physical organism.

It's an underlying, dormant essence that operates outside of the parameters of physical science, hence why debate or study of its existence is futile.

Thus, there's nothing to even suggest that we do carry a spirit inside of us.  It might simply be a part of us that rides in tandem with our selves on another channel to which our minds are melded.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19274497 - 12/14/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Thus, there's nothing to even suggest that we do carry a spirit inside of us.  It might simply be a part of us that rides in tandem with our selves on another channel to which our minds are melded.



The idea of the paranormal and the supernatural is ridiculous precisely because it assumes an "other" that is not merely a projection of our longings and desires.

In my opinion, of course.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19274524 - 12/14/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not saying a spirit is a physical organism.
Have you truly avoided reading the definition I provided this many times?
Spirit: An animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
It isn't a physical life form, nor have I argued it to be so.
I am saying it is a source which provides life to living beings.

From what expert do you cite this definition?
Quote:

It's an underlying, dormant essence that operates outside of the parameters of physical science, hence why debate or study of its existence is futile.



It completely contradicts mine, and a google search quoting it rendered a lack of results, verifiable or not.

I consider my brain to be my spirit.
The brain is personally spiritual to me in that electric signals between neurons and chemical reception within it create what I experience as joy, dismay, love, hatred, fear, etc
It also fits the official definition of spirit by being both an animating and vital principle held to give me life as a physical organism.
Like you and I both said, it isn't a physical organism, but is a physical organ :wink:
The brain does physically exist, and recent technology has allowed its measurement in a scientific form.

Once again, your claims don't add up.

Ahh and now I see that you've edited yet another of your posts :facepalm: As you have read above, my spirit is veritably carried inside of me.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19274622 - 12/14/13 12:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you asusme spirit to be the brain then you reject the concept of spirit.

Need for "experts" for purposes of citation and assurance can perhaps show lack of experience though I respect that you have proposed your opinion which I take at face value.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (12/14/13 12:53 PM)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19274667 - 12/14/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
If you asusme spirit to be the brain then you reject the concept of spirit.



Have refuted this various times :rolleyes:

Quote:

Need for "experts" for purposes of citation and assurance can perhaps show lack of experience though I respect that you have proposed your opinion which I take at face value.



So you honestly believe that when I have cited my definitions and they verify my opinion, that I show lack of expertise compared to you? :okay:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19274749 - 12/14/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Your opinion that spirit does not exist or that spirit pertains to physical has not been verified.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19274771 - 12/14/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And your opinion hasn't been verified either. That's what happens when you try and discuss something that has no impact on the objective world.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: White Beard]
    #19274789 - 12/14/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
And your opinion hasn't been verified either. That's what happens when you try and discuss something that has no impact on the objective world.




Indeed....and my take on it was this:

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
It's an underlying, dormant essence that operates outside of the parameters of physical science, hence why debate or study of its existence is futile.





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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19274824 - 12/14/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
I'm not saying a spirit is a physical organism.
Have you truly avoided reading the definition I provided this many times?
Spirit: An animating or vital principle held to give life to physical organisms
It isn't a physical life form, nor have I argued it to be so.
I am saying it is a source which provides life to living beings.

From what expert do you cite this definition?
Quote:

It's an underlying, dormant essence that operates outside of the parameters of physical science, hence why debate or study of its existence is futile.



It completely contradicts mine, and a google search quoting it rendered a lack of results, verifiable or not.

I consider my brain to be my spirit.
The brain is personally spiritual to me in that electric signals between neurons and chemical reception within it create what I experience as joy, dismay, love, hatred, fear, etc
It also fits the official definition of spirit by being both an animating and vital principle held to give me life as a physical organism.
Like you and I both said, it isn't a physical organism, but is a physical organ :wink:
The brain does physically exist, and recent technology has allowed its measurement in a scientific form.

Once again, your claims don't add up.

Ahh and now I see that you've edited yet another of your posts :facepalm: As you have read above, my spirit is veritably carried inside of me.



You cant disprove spirit and you cant disprove god

so arguing it is futile, you can only say with xx.xxxxx% certainty, god doesnt exist in our lab reference frame, and we exclude god until proven

a lot of scientists almost become religious after some time ;-) , or maybe just nuts hehe
I would imagine it is easy to become half-religious when you realize that we only know 5% of the known universe, check nasa graphs, rest is dark matter/energy = no good idea what it is
we know nothing, but we think we know everything

everything I see is 99.999% emptiness , just like myself
atoms are mostly empty, atoms make up everything we see


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: lessismore]
    #19274859 - 12/14/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just because there are unknowns, doesn't imply God.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: lessismore]
    #19274867 - 12/14/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

but it is an interesting thought

who is it that thinks? , try meditating on that :-)


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: White Beard]
    #19274872 - 12/14/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Just because there are unknowns, doesn't imply God.



I never said so

but it doesnt mean we should exclude god either necessarily, that would be closed-minded
and science is limited by culture often + everything not proven is excluded

luckily I still see some good science sci-fi papers, time travel, future events changing events in the past, "god" particles etc.
it is allowed to be "religious" in science, as long as you can prove it with math

but if your theory doesnt fit into the real world is is discarded

imagination can be fun in science too

what if there was a god? what if cause and effect wasnt one way only? what if there was no free will? what if nothing was real? what if physical reality was only a subset of a larger reality? (call it holographic, spiritual etc)

question everything

and it is possible to question most things and have a basic belief too, beliefs are personal so they dont need to be proved to others


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19274942 - 12/14/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:
You cant disprove spirit and you cant disprove god



If I can apply the definition of god or spirit to an existing object both can indeed be proven, whether it matches your own spiritual beliefs is another matter.
I've already applied the definition of spirit to the human brain.

If we look at the definition of god
1 - capitalized :  the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a :  the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
b Christian Science :  the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit :  infinite Mind
2 - a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically :  one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 - a person or thing of supreme value
4 - a powerful ruler

Please don't make me give examples of things of supreme value or powerful rulers :lol:

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Your opinion that spirit does not exist or that spirit pertains to physical has not been verified.



You're quite stubborn, aren't you?
Though you are still getting my words mixed up.
My opinion is that spirit DOES exist, and my belief of what my spirit is has been verified by definition as well as scientific research.
It does pertain to the physical world.
Here is photographic evidence of a brain
:rofl:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: lessismore]
    #19274957 - 12/14/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Just because there are unknowns, doesn't imply God.



I never said so

but it doesnt mean we should exclude god either necessarily, that would be closed-minded
and science is limited by culture often + everything not proven is excluded

luckily I still see some good science sci-fi papers, time travel, future events changing events in the past, "god" particles etc.
it is allowed to be "religious" in science, as long as you can prove it with math

but if your theory doesnt fit into the real world is is discarded

imagination can be fun in science too

what if there was a god? what if cause and effect wasnt one way only? what if there was no free will? what if nothing was real? what if physical reality was only a subset of a larger reality? (call it holographic, spiritual etc)

question everything

and it is possible to question most things and have a basic belief too, beliefs are personal so they dont need to be proved to others




Well, we can speculate until the cows come home, but I choose to speculate, hold my speculation up to reality, then reject if it doesn't fit, and accept if it does fit. Reality appears to have repeating patterns, and if we can understand these patterns through careful observation, we can better our lives with this understanding.

Quote:

imagination can be fun in science too



I love this video.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19275025 - 12/14/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
It does pertain to the physical world.
Here is photographic evidence of a brain [/image]
:rofl:




A picture of the human brain is not verification of spirit being physical nor are any of the proposed dictionary definitions.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19275076 - 12/14/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And what evidence do you have to support these claims?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: White Beard]
    #19275115 - 12/14/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Quote:

mio said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Just because there are unknowns, doesn't imply God.



I never said so

but it doesnt mean we should exclude god either necessarily, that would be closed-minded
and science is limited by culture often  everything not proven is excluded

luckily I still see some good science sci-fi papers, time travel, future events changing events in the past, "god" particles etc.
it is allowed to be "religious" in science, as long as you can prove it with math

but if your theory doesnt fit into the real world is is discarded

imagination can be fun in science too

what if there was a god? what if cause and effect wasnt one way only? what if there was no free will? what if nothing was real? what if physical reality was only a subset of a larger reality? (call it holographic, spiritual etc)

question everything

and it is possible to question most things and have a basic belief too, beliefs are personal so they dont need to be proved to others




Well, we can speculate until the cows come home, but I choose to speculate, hold my speculation up to reality, then reject if it doesn't fit, and accept if it does fit. Reality appears to have repeating patterns, and if we can understand these patterns through careful observation, we can better our lives with this understanding.

Quote:

imagination can be fun in science too



I love this video.





I love the video with Feynmann trying to explain how a magnet works, but apparently cant

Ive always wondered how they work :-) lol

but we have no knowledge of what a magnetic or electric field in vacuum actually is it seems

except freely floating energy perhaps, that is what maxwell proposed with his equations

so many theories based on fields, but we dont know what a field really is :-P
nobody knows what an electric field is

then I started getting the idea that nature somehow likes EM-waves
because they travel at the ultimate speed, light speed
almost like the universe resonates at that speed, it prefers electromagnetic fields
you can send a signal with light speed, to the end of the universe with a 9V battery and a coil... radiowave

and you pull on the moon with light speed when you go for a walk, general relativity says

maybe everything incl gravity is electromagnetic in nature..


Edited by lessismore (12/14/13 03:25 PM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum
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Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 2,659
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Re: Reincarnation [Re: HalfLight]
    #19275116 - 12/14/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My opinion holds no more weight than yours on the topic hence why it's pinnacle to converse amicably rather than emotionally.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: Reincarnation [Re: lessismore]
    #19275163 - 12/14/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:
I love the video with Feynmann trying to explain how a magnet works, but apparently cant





lol yeah, thats in this one!


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Reincarnation [Re: White Beard]
    #19275203 - 12/14/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

To a child a cat is a natural thing, but to a physicist a cat is an enormously complicated system ;-)

same with magnets it seems ;P

I like my cats real, not as linear combinations
just observe and enjoy


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