|
psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,465
Loc: 613
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19082128 - 11/03/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
All We Perceive said: I like having my music in CD quality. It's like a collector thing.
Same here. Storage is cheap enough that I figure I might as well go FLAC if I'm ripping a CD, a few hundred megs is nothing really. It's not even a matter of whether it makes a real difference to the sound, I just want a 1:1 copy if I'm going to the trouble of making a copy. I would guess that it might make a noticeable difference when doing additional lossy operations like tempo shifting (which I do sometimes to learn music,) but I haven't done a direct comparison.
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: psi]
#19082519 - 11/03/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
the only frustrating thing about flac is that not all programs recognize it. so it can be annoying. but if you just use fubar then i guess its fine!
i try to seperate my mp3 and flac collections
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
|
jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19082699 - 11/03/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
-------------------- !
|
pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082711 - 11/03/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I completely agree.
Quote:
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
IEMs are key for on-the-go usage. Cans suck for that scenario in every way.
|
jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19082723 - 11/03/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
There's nothing like stuffing that ten foot cord into my pocket while going for a walk
-------------------- !
|
kneesocks
Divineress



Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082773 - 11/03/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
If you are a producer, sure. If not, you don't need to worry about it.
Variable bitrate (VBR) is a term used in telecommunications and computing that relates to the bitrate used in sound or video encoding. As opposed to constant bitrate (CBR), VBR files vary the amount of output data per time segment. VBR allows a higher bitrate (and therefore requires more storage space) to be allocated to the more complex segments of media files while less space is allocated to less complex segments. The average of these rates can be calculated to produce an average bitrate for the file.
It's pretty much smart compression for audio files.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082799 - 11/03/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
i think i can almost certainly pick out the difference in sound quality between FLAC and a 320. v0 especially.
im confident that i'd be able to pick flacs/mp3s on a double blind test.
where i notice the difference is in the texture of the tones. the reverberation of the bass lines, the minute details. especially FLAC is much more noticeable on intense parts of a song, where lots of different elements to a song reach a crescendo. its in those areas of a song where you notice every sound is seperate and distinct, without any fading out or blurring.
the difference is definitely not massive, and i can see how some people would say its imperceptible. a big part of it may even just be the placebo effect.
i also notice as well -- and this is just myself, no real backing or anything.... but, i notice that FLACs seemed to be layered or mastered better. the sounds are more "punchy" and distinct. the levels seem to be adjusted to present the sound better on a flac, as opposed to when i listen to the same copies on v0/mp3. that may sound stupid and ludicrous, and without any factual backing, but thats what i notice.
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
|
pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082809 - 11/03/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Soulidarity said: im confident that i'd be able to pick flacs/mp3s on a double blind test.
the difference is definitely not massive, and i can see how some people would say its imperceptible. a big part of it may even just be the placebo effect.
So which is it, the placebo effect, or a bona fide difference? You're arguing contradicting sides. A blind test would easily answer this question. If you're so confident you should test yourself.
|
kneesocks
Divineress



Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19082834 - 11/03/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I completely agree.
Quote:
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
IEMs are key for on-the-go usage. Cans suck for that scenario in every way.
I am a professional sound designer and audio-video producer, and honestly, the difference between MP3 V0, 256kbps and 320kbps sound designer is very difficult to discern on the average listener's earphones or headphones. Whether or not you can tell the difference also depends on the quality and frequency response of the equipment you're using for monitoring. I never sample or rip to any digital format other than uncompressed WAV until the work is finished, because any time you re-encode, like when editing and resampling, you're going to lose information, and small artifacts and errors accumulate very quickly. For archival purposes, if you have the space, rip to lossless formats like FLAC, since from there you have a copy that you can use to encode to various audio formats with minimal data loss and little risk of damaging the physical CD.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
|
kneesocks
Divineress



Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082874 - 11/03/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Soulidarity said:
Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
i think i can almost certainly pick out the difference in sound quality between FLAC and a 320. v0 especially.
im confident that i'd be able to pick flacs/mp3s on a double blind test.
where i notice the difference is in the texture of the tones. the reverberation of the bass lines, the minute details. especially FLAC is much more noticeable on intense parts of a song, where lots of different elements to a song reach a crescendo. its in those areas of a song where you notice every sound is seperate and distinct, without any fading out or blurring.
the difference is definitely not massive, and i can see how some people would say its imperceptible. a big part of it may even just be the placebo effect.
i also notice as well -- and this is just myself, no real backing or anything.... but, i notice that FLACs seemed to be layered or mastered better. the sounds are more "punchy" and distinct. the levels seem to be adjusted to present the sound better on a flac, as opposed to when i listen to the same copies on v0/mp3. that may sound stupid and ludicrous, and without any factual backing, but thats what i notice. 
Of course it seems that way, since generally if music is ripped from a master copy to a lossless copy, the original bit depth and sample rate are preserved much more closely. When played back, this is much more accurately reflecting what the mixing engineer heard and was satisfied with after the mastering was completed.
Though, unless you have audio equipment capable of playing 192kHz@24bit, you're always going to lose some bit depth and sample rate just getting to a format where you can hear it on non-studio audio equipment. For instance, when a CD is printed, the master copy is reduced down to 44,100Hz@16bit.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
Edited by kneesocks (11/03/13 09:54 PM)
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19082878 - 11/03/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
|
jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082896 - 11/03/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- !
|
kneesocks
Divineress



Registered: 12/25/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Puget Sound/PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082907 - 11/03/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Soulidarity said: i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
Right on!
What are you using in regards to a DAC?
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082966 - 11/03/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
okay, that utilities "a-b" test thing doesnt work in my foobar, however, i've just put two exact same named files of the same song in my playlist and shuffled them up, and hid all info so i cant see which is the FLAC and which is the v0.
im gonna listen to about the first 2 minutes of each to hear the main riffs of each song present themselves and i almost guarantee i will be able to pick the flac.
i promise i'm not just goign to lie about it to say im right. i'll be honest about my results.
listening to "The Naked And Famous's" song " Young Blood " in FLAC and v0. listening through audeze LCD-2's and a violectric v100amp.
will post results in about 5 minutes.
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082987 - 11/03/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
LOL.... i guessed the v0 mp3 was the FLAC....! 
the mp3 v0 sounds louder and brighter, the FLAC actually sounded quieter and a bit fuzzy....??
hrmm... upon closer inspection there is subtle differences between the two, but the v0 sounded "brighter" and "better" to my ears....
ahh well. maybe its just a placebo! i really do think i can hear the difference between flac though....
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
|
pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082994 - 11/03/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|

Yeah, that's what I thought. Try a few more. You won't really know unless you test with 10-20 songs.
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: kneesocks]
#19082997 - 11/03/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
kneesocks said:
Quote:
Soulidarity said: i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
Right on!
What are you using in regards to a DAC?
i just use my onboard PC soundcard via USB as a DAC for now. it's a soundblaster X-FI titanium soundcard.
i could upgrade a DAC, but they can be pretty expensive, and when i tested them at the shop, the increase in sound quality was really not all that much compared to what it is currently.
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
|
pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19083060 - 11/03/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Soulidarity said:
Quote:
kneesocks said:
Quote:
Soulidarity said: i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
Right on!
What are you using in regards to a DAC?
i just use my onboard PC soundcard via USB as a DAC for now. it's a soundblaster X-FI titanium soundcard.
i could upgrade a DAC, but they can be pretty expensive, and when i tested them at the shop, the increase in sound quality was really not all that much compared to what it is currently.
My opinion on "audiophile" audio is that it's generally extremely overpriced. You're better off going with pro audio gear IMO.
|
Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 17,617
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19083164 - 11/03/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
It really is overpriced and not worth the money. Also, the audiophile sound is not that great IMO either. The audiophile sound is more about being really detailed and presenting music as is originally intended, without coloring the sound.
But the thing is that the colouring of the sound is what makes it sound good! The audiophile sound can be flat and in interesting, especially for someone such as myself who listens to alot of electronic music.
The denon ah-d5000's are IMO just about some of the best value headphones available. For only $600 they are amazing. The problem is that they aren't produced anymore. Their equivalent is now produced by a company called fostex with the th600 I think it is. They now sell for almost twice the price at $1200...!
The denons play with great sound unamped from portable devices. They have a wonderful sound presentation and are definitely a bass heads phone.
But even that price range is a bit much for some people. Even just a pair of m50's or sennheisser hd 280s have great sound for half the price.
|
jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
|
Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19083190 - 11/03/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I'm not sure $600 is something I would expect for "best value headphones".
-------------------- !
|
|