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mjd
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Registered: 09/03/13
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pine ID help
#19082680 - 11/03/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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hello again everyone found these today while hunting in a different area. They were found under heavy salal in a predominantly cedar and hemlock forest. on Vancouver island. From what I have learned so far I think these are pines but once again I am not completely confident. I found a bunch but only took pictures of a select few that seemed to represent the differences.
All were found pushing up through the leaf litter or moss. All were found relatively close to each other if not from the same cluster. All have a veil although the more mature opened ones only have a little evidence of where one was once.
I am unfamiliar with other mushrooms that might be mistaken for pines. I have read about the smith amenita, but have never had anyone show one to me. are there others that are commonly mistaken for pines on or around Vancouver Island. Any info about these would be awesome!!!




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o8u
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Re: pine ID help [Re: mjd]
#19082710 - 11/03/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Maybe Tricholoma caligatum
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theoneje
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Re: pine ID help [Re: mjd]
#19082840 - 11/03/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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They look like classic "pines" (tricholoma magnivalare, or matsutake) to me; particular the 1st and 4th mushroom in photo one and the mushrooms in your 4th and 5th photos. Others are probably the same but aren't necessarily the "standard" look.
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Lhun
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Re: pine ID help [Re: o8u]
#19082845 - 11/03/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
o8u said: Maybe Tricholoma caligatum
Seems likely. MJD can you describe how they smell? Also a photo of the cap would be helpful.
Edited by Lhun (11/03/13 10:52 PM)
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mjd
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Re: pine ID help [Re: Lhun]
#19083072 - 11/03/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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woops, forgot to mention the smell, thanks for the reminder-- They all smell the same and smell quite strong. I have heard that pines smell like cinnamon hearts and feet-these could definitely pass as that but having never smelled pines before i cant be sure. The caps range from very smooth to quite fibrile (the biggest one). the largest one has the same smell and veil but also has a lot more scaley brown on the cap. Can pine caps generally range in like the ones in the pics do?
if these were Tricholoma caligatum, how could you tell the difference for certain? I know there are a lot of pines in the area, but i would also equally appreciate a positive ID of a look alike too. From what i read Tricholoma caligatum are generally more uniform brown on the cap and less tapered stipes. Apparently they also have an unpleasent odor and taste. . .


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Lhun
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Re: pine ID help [Re: mjd]
#19083151 - 11/03/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those all look to be Tricholoma magnivelare. 
T. caligatum has much more prominent scales on the cap. They also tend to be darker brown. Most importantly, they lack that spicy odor. Habitat can be a help in distinguishing what you have too, as T. magnivelare prefer conifers, and T. caligatum hardwoods.
Good finds!
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Chuck H
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Re: pine ID help [Re: Lhun]
#19084666 - 11/04/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Matsi's baby!!! I'm attempting to preserve some now since I've found far too many to use fresh. I've given many away too. Definitely look into recipes to see how to best prepare them. IMHO if used like other mushrooms they can be dissapointing, but treated right they are heavenly. A very different mushroom for cuisine to be sure. I have a matsutake soup recipe in the recipes thread you could start with. I just went and picked a fresh one for supper last night while walking my dog. A good year for matsi's.
-------------------- "Fungally speaking, we are smiled upon most favorably." David Arora
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fry day


Registered: 07/19/13
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Re: pine ID help [Re: Chuck H]
#19085197 - 11/04/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry to be a dissenter, but there's something not quite matsilike here...
When you slice to dry, really pay attention to the scent. If you're not sure that it's right, take another look at id. Even though you've never smelled it before, as you cut them you will know.
I recommend just brushing 'em off, slice 'em lengthwise thru the cap and stem to make pretty sections about 1/4" thick and dry them with a bit of warm and air <110F. Too thin and they won't retain that pretty aspect, too thick and they take too long.
-------------------- "Shrub, 30-90 cm. Leaves 2.5-) 4-9 cm, sessile or amplexicaul, broadly ovate to ovate-oblong, obtuse or rounded to subapiculate or subacute, when crushed not smelling of goats." "The initial quake was a 6.6 but fairly shallow. I felt it as a prolonged up and down vibration followed by a jolt forward and then to the left, like square dancing."
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mjd
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Re: pine ID help [Re: fry day]
#19085706 - 11/04/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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thanks guys for the input! i went out and found about another 10lbs today of what I believe are pines. hopefully i will have a local ex-commercial guy ID them for me today so i can start to enjoy them. Thanks again for all the useful input, this forum is an awesome resource. . .
As fr as I can tell the only mushroom you really don't want to confuse pines with is the white amanita--is this true?
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: pine ID help [Re: mjd]
#19085718 - 11/04/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yea, Amanita smithiana can be deadly and also smells like matsutake.
Yours appear to be real matsutake though.
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mjd
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Yea, Amanita smithiana can be deadly and also smells like matsutake.
Yours appear to be real matsutake though.
In your opinion what are the best characteristics to help distinguish between Amenita smithiana and Matsutake, I thought smell was one of them?
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: pine ID help [Re: mjd]
#19086757 - 11/04/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have been told that the smell can be exactly the same.
Amanita smithiana has free gill attachment and being from section Lepidella, it is quite powdery. The texture of the flesh should be pretty different as well. Matsutake has a pretty stringy texture, while Amanitas can not be peeled like string cheese.
If you have a microscope and melzers reagent you can check to see if the spores are amyloid - Tricholoma spores do not change color in melzers. You might be able to use a spore print and iodine.
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Chuck H
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A. Smithii and T. magnivelare are so different that it should be impossible to confuse the two. The amanita will have fluffy scales all over it and has a more typical and softer mushroom texture as one would expect from button mushrooms. Matsi's are VERY tough and fiberous. Amanita's free gills were mentioned. The base of the amanita will be clean or in a fleshy cup and blunt and the matsi will be tapered and likely ingrained with sandy soil. The amanita will be ghostly white all over and matsi's never are. Further, and this is only my experience, not calling anyone a liar or even wrong, but, A. Smithii smells like any mushroom or somewhat fishy in age. Since matsi's can also smell fishy once their looong past edibility I suppose that in a state of decay the amanita and matsi smell similar. But I have never known A Smithii to smell like fresh matsi's.
-------------------- "Fungally speaking, we are smiled upon most favorably." David Arora
Edited by Chuck H (11/04/13 07:01 PM)
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fry day


Registered: 07/19/13
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Yours appear to be real matsutake though.
Well, that makes 2 TI's chiming in on this, so I must be wrong. It's the cap shape on the one on the left that tweaks me:

I'm used to seeing an inrolled margin even when they're quite open.


-------------------- "Shrub, 30-90 cm. Leaves 2.5-) 4-9 cm, sessile or amplexicaul, broadly ovate to ovate-oblong, obtuse or rounded to subapiculate or subacute, when crushed not smelling of goats." "The initial quake was a 6.6 but fairly shallow. I felt it as a prolonged up and down vibration followed by a jolt forward and then to the left, like square dancing."
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mjd
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Re: pine ID help [Re: fry day]
#19086985 - 11/04/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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right on guys this thread is proving to be really helpful for me. I have been hyper focused on the Amanita smithiana because of its reputation and a quick web search on look a likes--are there other look a likes in the PNW that I should research as well? I heard that there is a more greyish amenita up here that has a similar appearance. . .
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

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Re: pine ID help [Re: Chuck H]
#19087028 - 11/04/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chuck H said: But I have never known A Smithii to smell like fresh matsi's.
David Rust brought home some Amanita smithiana, held it in his closed hand and asked his wife Debbie what it was. She immediately said Matsutake based on the odor, and was shocked when he opened his hand and had A. smithii.
And she has been mushrooming far longer than I have...
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Lhun
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Re: pine ID help [Re: mjd]
#19087166 - 11/04/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mjd said: are there other look a likes in the PNW that I should research as well?
If you have not yet, take a look at the Catathelasma species. Especially Catathelasma ventricosum. They can look fairly similar as well. Gill attachment can rule them right out though.
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theoneje
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Re: pine ID help [Re: Chuck H]
#19087330 - 11/04/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sometimes smithianas are very easy to tell apart from Matsutake, but other times they can look VERY close, especially if you are throwing 20 lbs into your basket during a good year like this one.
Earlier this year a smithiana was brought into the Puget Sound Mycological Society's ID Clinic which is a great example.
Personally, I like to see the base of every mature matsutake to make sure it is tapering, or at least not bulbous (I still have trouble with the gill features sometimes; notched can look close to free to me).
Edit: you can see the photos under my profile or if you scroll down a bit at: https://www.facebook.com/PSMS.mushrooms.
Edited by theoneje (11/04/13 08:46 PM)
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Chuck H
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Re: pine ID help [Re: Lhun]
#19087964 - 11/04/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't doubt it. That hasn't been my experience though. It could well be a regional thing! Mushrooms have a way of being different from one region to another. Macrolepiota Brunneum from Cali seem to make people sick. Here in Wa. they don't. Armillaria Caligata from the east coast smell bad. Here in Wa. they don't. Gymnopilus Spectabilis on the east coast tend to be "active". Not so much on the west coast.
I have to wonder though... Was your friend picking matsi's all day before showing that Amanita to his wife? She may have been smelling his hand! Not likely since he made it a point to show her so it must have been his observation as well. But just sayin'... Misconceptions happen too.
The color does look a little too uniform amber. I chalked that up to photography circumstances like lighting, etc. I did raise an eyebrow at "that one on the left" that was mentioned. I for one am glad the OP is having someone with experience give a positive ID in person. And when confirmed, get my soup recipe from this forum !!!
-------------------- "Fungally speaking, we are smiled upon most favorably." David Arora
Edited by Chuck H (11/04/13 11:27 PM)
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