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OfflineHierophant
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Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~
    #19081392 - 11/03/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'd like to start by saying that cultivating mushrooms has been an amazingly powerful and rewarding experience for myself and my loved ones. I'm sure many of you resonate with the beauty of working with an energy that elicits such profound and revelatory experiences. It has had an undeniably positive effect on me and has allowed me to grow in ways that I doubt would be possible otherwise. I have a great respect for the mushrooms and the space that they invoke within me and those close to me.

I am not an entrepreneur or dealer or party goer and am not in this for fun or financial benefit... I do this because I have a reverence for the experience and wish to share that experience with the people around me willing to take off their masks, confront themselves and penetrate through the surface of their being to see who and what they are, to gain new perspectives on themselves, their relationships to others and to the living universe we all dwell within and are an integral part of.

Anyways, I've been working with cakes and casings and after being inspired by Hippie's super cake formula I began working with supplemental ingredients, adding a variety of nutritional components into my cakes.

For my first grow I used a mixture of brown rice flour, quinoa flour, golden flax meal, vermiculite and spring water as a substrate for Amazonian and Mazatapec varieties of cubensis. I was extremely pleased with the results and could simply continue using the same formula but I am amazed with the potential of adding a variety of nutrients to produce healthy fruits with greater potency and feel that the addition of nutritional value and actual loving intention has a great effect on the life force, energy and overall vibration of the mycelium and the fruits it produces, adding more depth and a rich fullness to an already overwhelmingly powerful medicine.

One of my initial reasons for adding quinoa to the mix is because quinoa contains tryptophan (approximately 21.8% of daily value recommended for humans) which could possibly be a precursor to psilocin and psilocybin and assists the mycelium in the production of these compounds.

Recently I have added bee pollen, corn meal, nutritional yeast, shredded coconut meat, maca powder and sesame seeds to my initial formula. These additives provide an abundance of vitamins and minerals to the original formula. Sesame seeds in particular  contain even higher levels of tryptophan (37.5% dv compared to quinoa's 21.8) and I'm excited to see the results. I'm working with Ecuadorians, Amazonians, and Z strain and can't wait to see how they produce given the nutritional additives in the mycelium's diet.

On another note, I have recently started drawing a portrait of Maria Sabina and purchased a beautiful book about her life and her relationship with the mushrooms and God... it is a fascinating and moving story, an oral autobiography dictated to the author by Maria Sabina in Mazatec her native tongue. The book also contains a series of chants that she sang during her veladas. Her words and passion are deeply moving and I feel a strong connection to her and her work on the spiritual plane with the santos ninos. I feel blessed and privileged to be able to cultivate and work with this sacrament and to be able to share it with the people I love is one of the most beautiful and meaningful aspects of my life.

Anyways, just wanted to share my experience, thanks for reading through this to those who did.

~Peace, Love & Light my brothers and sisters~


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/04/13 09:04 AM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19081541 - 11/03/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Must be potent....doesn't sound like you've come down yet!
Genetics I believe to be a bigger factor but your jenny craig plan doesn't sound bad,not neccesary but not bad


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19081553 - 11/03/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I dont think tryptophan from that one additive would really increase potency 
i think it would just get broken down by the myc into a different compound and used as any other organic food particle. I dont think 
it would make it to the end fruits to increase anything. 

All those additives to cakes are great and I'm sure they may increase 
things like flush numbers and fruit size a little bit. Having easy access to all
those things is what it comes down to. Cakes are pretty much for people
learning so keeping it simple with just flour is easier to learn.

Brown rice flour is very nutritious by itself and really just comes down
to genetics that control potency, size, pinsets, mutants and etc

Hope u like my reply :mmmkay:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: rumfor69]
    #19081587 - 11/03/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yep genetics, I could grow pan cyans on the same subs and they are always goona be stronger then cubes because their geneticly inclined too!  But cubes do love some variety in there diet


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: cronicr]
    #19081701 - 11/03/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

agreed.

Rum, I wasn't suggesting that tryptophan stays intact and is carried through the growing process to the fruit but that the mycelium assimilates it and converts it into psilocin and psilocybin. There was a study showing that adding tryptamine to substrate does increase levels of psilocin and psilocybin in the resulting fruits by acting as a precursor for the mycelium to convert into these psychedelic compounds. I believe tryptophan works in a similar manner and that incorporating it into the myceliums diet results in a similar increase in active compounds. I am new to this and am exploring and experimenting as much as possible, working with wild bird seed as well but I like the versatility of cakes... anyways its become a passion of mine and the results have been nothing short of magikal.

Thanks for your feedback :vibin:


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19081721 - 11/03/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Pics!


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: cronicr]
    #19082046 - 11/03/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok i see what you mean my how it helps create more psyco active compounds.
it prolly is on a small scale though and is better traded for something
with more nutrition for sustainability for flushes.

wild bird seed is a great way to go. you can make lots of myce by doing
grain to grain transfers. then spawning it to simple pasteurized coconut coir with vermiculite added for moisture retention


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: rumfor69]
    #19082321 - 11/03/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks, yeah I agree that the increase in potency is probably minimal but these definitely have been some strong fruits and everyone I have gifted them to has been impressed so somethings going on, I try to put as much love into what I do, I play music for them, talk to them, do energy work with them and have different crystals and stones on top of my colonizing jars and in the fruiting chamber to help facilitate a positive environment for the oomies.

Im excited about spawning to bulk and already have some coir, just waiting for the grains to fully colonize then Ill set up my mono :thumbup:

as far as pics go, I'd like to share some but am still nervous about posting them online, I feel like this site is secure and everything but :shrug:


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/03/13 08:08 PM)


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19082391 - 11/03/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

By the way, your sig is beautiful Rum  :bow2:


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There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19082707 - 11/03/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Nutrition isn't going to make the fruits more potent.  Further, there is zero evidence that adding tryptophan has any effect on potency either.  The extra grains might give an extra flush or two, but that's it. 

The most potent mushrooms grow on sawdust and/or spent wood, very low in 'nutrition'.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19083665 - 11/04/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

All the evidence I've seen suggests that adding tryptophan doesn't affact the synthensis of psilocybin or psilocin. I'm sure if you do some searching on google you could find some actual studies on it, not just something posted on drug forums which is probably the first things that will pop up.


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Kizzle]
    #19084544 - 11/04/13 08:48 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Here is a study posted on our own forum which suggests that adding tryptamine to a substrate does in fact increase the levels of actives in resulting fruits.

http://www.shroomery.org/9040/Tryptamine-Cubensis

Given the similarities between tryptamine and tryptophan I believe that the addition of nutrients containing higher levels of tryptophan would increase potency as well.


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/04/13 08:54 AM)


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InvisibleEnigma1
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19086000 - 11/04/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Nutrition isn't going to make the fruits more potent.  Further, there is zero evidence that adding tryptophan has any effect on potency either.  The extra grains might give an extra flush or two, but that's it. 

The most potent mushrooms grow on sawdust and/or spent wood, very low in 'nutrition'.
RR



:takingnotes:


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InvisibleEnigma1
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19086142 - 11/04/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Nutrition isn't going to make the fruits more potent.  Further, there is zero evidence that adding tryptophan has any effect on potency either.  The extra grains might give an extra flush or two, but that's it. 

The most potent mushrooms grow on sawdust and/or spent wood, very low in 'nutrition'.
RR



RR being the type of person I am,i am very curious what is is about wood they like? The mushroom gods are leading the to a mixture of wood, poo, and straw. I can't tell the the whole blend he revealed to me:singletear:


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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Enigma1]
    #19086260 - 11/04/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

they like hardwoods like alder


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleEnigma1
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: cronicr]
    #19086300 - 11/04/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
they like hardwoods like alder



:takingnotes:


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Enigma1]
    #19091098 - 11/05/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe I'll add some shavings from the black banisteriopsis caapi vine I have in my next batch :wink:

still, regarding the tryptophan, I see no reason why it wouldn't increase potency givin its similarity to tryptamine and the results of the study in the link posted above.


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There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19091444 - 11/05/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Because the amount of psylocybin produced is based on the amount of specific enzymes used to create it that are present which is genetic. It's not based on how much tryptophan it has available. If it had the enzymes but not the raw material, then it could possibly make a difference but I don't believe that's the case since we're talking about a basic amino acid that most likely has multiple uses and is highly regulated.


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OfflineHierophant
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Kizzle]
    #19093110 - 11/05/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if that is true than how would you explain the results of the study posted above? simply an anomaly? given the significantly higher levels of actives in the specimens produced with tryptamine added to their diet I find that unlikely.

also tryptophan itself is an amino acid, this is a list of amino acids present in quinoa and sesame seed.

tryptophan
isoleucine
leucine
lysine
phenylalanine
tyrosine
cysteine
methionine
threonine
histidine
valine


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (11/05/13 11:11 PM)


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OfflineKagenical
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Re: Supplemental nutritional additives in cakes~ [Re: Hierophant]
    #19093311 - 11/05/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Tryptophan and Tryptamine are very different organic molecules with very different properties. Mushrooms seem to create psilocin and psilocybin through a chain of enzymatic reactions. It's quite reasonable to assume that one, or more, of these reactions are rate limited. IME, it's the phosphorylation step that seems to be rate limited (conversion of psilocin to psilocybin) for reasons stated below.

Growing on substrates that are very, very high in tryptophan, such as kelps and spirulina, haven't done anything for my potency experiments. If you'd like to experiment with this, make a few BRF cakes, and substitute .1% of the BRF weight for L-tryptophan. Try a different cake with 1%. Then check out Ali-baba and grab 100g of Tryptamine HCL powder and do the same (mix your substrate and pH as necessary to make sure the tryptamine remains in it's salt form).

Growing on substrates that are high in natural precursors to psilocin and psilocybin have also yielded no meaningful results. Adding 100g of MHRB to 100g of hydrated coir and 100g of vermiculite, and used as casing mixture (while adjusting pH to 7 using calcium hydroxide)did nothing to quantitative analysis of potency. The specimens grown in these conditions blued as strongly as P. cyan stem cross sections, indicating some sort of chemical change in their biology... But we all know that bluing is not a sign of potency, and the oxidation product of psilocin may not be blue at all.

EDIT: according to the study linked above, tryptamine supplementation may actually counteract what you're trying to attempt with cultivation. De novo synthesis of psilocin appears to have increased at the drastic expense to psilocybin production. This may lead to a much less potent end product, after drying.


Edited by Kagenical (11/05/13 11:52 PM)


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