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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



Registered: 09/24/07
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is getting an external sound card worth it?
#19081082 - 11/03/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I mainly run my laptop to my amp/speakers or listen with headphones both via the onboard motherboard audio out. Especially with headphones, I'm pretty into trying to get the best sound I can. I have heard that having an external sound card will tangibly increase sound quality due to the subpar quality of the amplifier in audio out. Has anyone done this? Is the sound quality really that much better?
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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suniced
Simpleton

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081093 - 11/03/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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when im making music i just plug my headphones into my motherboard, i just have the soundcard my computer came with and it works great.
-------------------- Its not the years in your life that count Its the life in your years.
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s240779

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081096 - 11/03/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it's pretty obvious that it would be better.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081098 - 11/03/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: s240779]
#19081105 - 11/03/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It depends on what headphones you're using and sound card your computer currently has.
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ReginaldPMcpoop
The Colour Out of Space


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081129 - 11/03/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It made a huge difference to me on my computer and that's just running it through a low range pair of Sennheisers. The card I got is a Soundblaster and it was only about $100.
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MHbound
Ballin Out At All Cost


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081134 - 11/03/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It will help a lot, get some good headphones though if you do it.
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s240779

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: MHbound]
#19081147 - 11/03/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Grado is a brand that was recommended to me. They have a pair for abut $90, which seems like a good budget buy.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: s240779]
#19081160 - 11/03/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Grados are the most uncomfortable headphones in the world. I would never buy a pair no matter how good they sound because I wouldn't be able to wear them for more than 30 minutes.
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081217 - 11/03/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have a pair of bose headphones I got for $180 and they are really good.
They have special earbuds that make them stay in your ears. Great for working out and just general exercising. In the past my headphones would fall out of my ears ever 2 seconds while running
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081222 - 11/03/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: I think it's pretty obvious that it would be better.
Well yeah, I was wondering how much better so as to see if it would justify the expended funds.
Quote:
pwnasaurus said: It depends on what headphones you're using and sound card your computer currently has.
I have audio technica ath-m50 headphones and onboard realtek audio. I do not have a dedicated sound card. I'm planning on upgrading my headphones at some point... although, that will probably not be until next year.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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s240779

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: dontknow]
#19081223 - 11/03/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I get bad vibes from Bose. They seem like a company that manufactures cheap equipment and falsely represents it as high end.
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: s240779]
#19081240 - 11/03/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's midrange stuff being sold as high end. When you see photos of audiophile setups, do you ever see bose? No. The only people I see praising bose anything are people who didn't read up on the buying options when making their purchase.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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dontknow
It's all in the reflex


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081288 - 11/03/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I did a lot of research on headphones before buying these actually. Sound quality is great, and they do the main thing I wanted them to do very well - they stay, comfortably, in my ear even with a ton of movement. Only downside I have to them is they do not block much outside noise.
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The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14
“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.” Albert Einstein
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: dontknow]
#19081291 - 11/03/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Any IEM will stay in your ear easily. Bose are not worth what they charge at all.
My $100 Shure SE-215s will never fall out of my ear, sound great, and block almost all outside noise. They also have a replaceable cable for when it eventually breaks, but they are 2.5 years old now and still going strong.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081309 - 11/03/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well worth it if you listen to lossless. Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is the best for < $100.
I have SE215s, bought an upgrade cable and they sound way clearer.
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Middleman]
#19081333 - 11/03/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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that looks cool. yea, the majority of the music I listen to is flac sans soundboards which are mostly vbr. looks like I could use that with a keyboard too. I need more money.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Middleman]
#19081335 - 11/03/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Well worth it if you listen to lossless. Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is the best for < $100.
I have SE215s, bought an upgrade cable and they sound way clearer.
I have the Scarlett 8i6, definitely a great sound card.
Although IMO there's no difference between VBR and lossless.
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081352 - 11/03/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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maybe for you....
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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s240779

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: s240779]
#19081367 - 11/03/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What do you guys mean by "VBR"? In most discussions, people compare lossy and lossless.
I do know what VBR stands for, but it's not making sense for me.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: s240779]
#19081378 - 11/03/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081428 - 11/03/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it also depends on your sensitivity OP.
To be honest, I've found that despite my love sound, I'm pretty insensitive to subtle changes in audio. For example, I can't tell the difference between something ripped at 320kbs, and playing a CD directly.
I also can't readily discern between say, "regular" dolby digital and say, DTS-HD sound.
The amount of difference you perceive depends in part, on you and your experience with audio.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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s240779

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: badchad]
#19081437 - 11/03/13 05:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: I also can't readily discern between say, "regular" dolby digital and say, DTS-HD sound.
I don't think you're supposed to add "between." I think it should read like this:
I also can't readily discern "regular" dolby digital from DTS-HD sound.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: badchad]
#19081455 - 11/03/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: I think it also depends on your sensitivity OP.
To be honest, I've found that despite my love sound, I'm pretty insensitive to subtle changes in audio. For example, I can't tell the difference between something ripped at 320kbs, and playing a CD directly.
I also can't readily discern between say, "regular" dolby digital and say, DTS-HD sound.
The amount of difference you perceive depends in part, on you and your experience with audio.
99% of people cannot discern the difference between lossless and 320kbps MP3. Anyone with a remotely discerning ear can tell the difference between a laptop sound card and an external sound card with a nice pair of cans. The ATH-M50s fall into that category.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: badchad]
#19081465 - 11/03/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Through my MOTU Microbook II > Tannoy Reveal 6 I can hear a huge difference in depth between V0 and m4a.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081469 - 11/03/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said: Anyone with a remotely discerning ear can tell the difference between a laptop sound card and an external sound card with a nice pair of cans. The ATH-M50s fall into that category.
Maybe a dumb question, but in the era of digital audio, why is that so? Isn't the digital media just transferring 1's and 0's?
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (11/03/13 05:16 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081476 - 11/03/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
badchad said: I think it also depends on your sensitivity OP.
To be honest, I've found that despite my love sound, I'm pretty insensitive to subtle changes in audio. For example, I can't tell the difference between something ripped at 320kbs, and playing a CD directly.
I also can't readily discern between say, "regular" dolby digital and say, DTS-HD sound.
The amount of difference you perceive depends in part, on you and your experience with audio.
99% of people cannot discern the difference between lossless and 320kbps MP3.
really?
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Middleman]
#19081482 - 11/03/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Through my MOTU Microbook II > Tannoy Reveal 6 I can hear a huge difference in depth between V0 and m4a.
Maybe you are part of the 1%. Have you blind-tested yourself on ~20 files?
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: akira_akuma]
#19081489 - 11/03/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
really? 
I post on audiophile forums where people claim they can tell a difference among types of HDMI cables. Unfortunately, beyond anecdotal claims, there ain't a whole lot to support those assertions.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: badchad]
#19081496 - 11/03/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: I post on audiophile forums where people claim they can tell a difference among types of HDMI cables. Unfortunately, beyond anecdotal claims, there ain't a whole lot to support those assertions.
A blind test is a pretty damned easy way to tell. Until I see some actual research that supports it I won't believe it.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081502 - 11/03/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I went to engineering school, and I need the gear to hear it. I's no big difference.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Middleman]
#19081517 - 11/03/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't quite follow that post.
How is having gone to engineering school relevant?
By "I need the gear to hear it" did you mean you need a high-end audio setup like the one you mentioned in your previous post? (MOTU Microbook II > Tannoy Reveal 6)
By "it's no big difference" did you mean the difference between mp3 and lossless is pretty minimal?
Not trying to nitpick, I'm curious and I don't want to make assumptions.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081535 - 11/03/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I learned in school how to 'train' my ears to hear differences in phase, etc. Audio files are only as good as the converters, amp, and speakers they are played through. Through low-end stuff there is not much audible difference between formats.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Middleman]
#19081549 - 11/03/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So would you say there is or isn't a big difference on perfect gear between mp3 and lossless?
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081564 - 11/03/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I just said that through nice gear there is a difference, even V0. Sorry for the confusion, I meant to wirte, without it there is no big difference.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081623 - 11/03/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
badchad said: I post on audiophile forums where people claim they can tell a difference among types of HDMI cables. Unfortunately, beyond anecdotal claims, there ain't a whole lot to support those assertions.
A blind test is a pretty damned easy way to tell. Until I see some actual research that supports it I won't believe it.
I agree. Every now and then, I'll splurge on expensive gear just for kicks, but I try to save my cash for things I can really tell a difference on.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: badchad]
#19081771 - 11/03/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, my dad has a really, really nice system and you can definitely tell the difference easily on it between v/0 and flac. On my speakers, much less so. I can tell though with my cans. I download flac mostly as an investment for when I have much nicer audio components.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19081801 - 11/03/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have ATH-M50s and a Scarlett 8i6 and I can tell absolutely no difference 99% of the time. Have you blind-tested yourself?
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All We Perceive
Sea Cucumber



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19081910 - 11/03/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No. Maybe I should although I like having my music in CD quality. It's like a collector thing.
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"plus they atually think jambands are good or sumthing, so they clearly know absolutely nothing about music, clearly lol" -Bassfreak
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19082005 - 11/03/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If your looking to improve sound quality, an amp/dac is the best solution. Sound cards are like a half upgrade. It's like buying diet coke, not the full product
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19082128 - 11/03/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
All We Perceive said: I like having my music in CD quality. It's like a collector thing.
Same here. Storage is cheap enough that I figure I might as well go FLAC if I'm ripping a CD, a few hundred megs is nothing really. It's not even a matter of whether it makes a real difference to the sound, I just want a 1:1 copy if I'm going to the trouble of making a copy. I would guess that it might make a noticeable difference when doing additional lossy operations like tempo shifting (which I do sometimes to learn music,) but I haven't done a direct comparison.
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: psi]
#19082519 - 11/03/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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the only frustrating thing about flac is that not all programs recognize it. so it can be annoying. but if you just use fubar then i guess its fine!
i try to seperate my mp3 and flac collections
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  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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jewunit
Brutal!


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19082699 - 11/03/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
-------------------- !
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082711 - 11/03/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I completely agree.
Quote:
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
IEMs are key for on-the-go usage. Cans suck for that scenario in every way.
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jewunit
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19082723 - 11/03/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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There's nothing like stuffing that ten foot cord into my pocket while going for a walk
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kneesocks
Divineress



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082773 - 11/03/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you are a producer, sure. If not, you don't need to worry about it.
Variable bitrate (VBR) is a term used in telecommunications and computing that relates to the bitrate used in sound or video encoding. As opposed to constant bitrate (CBR), VBR files vary the amount of output data per time segment. VBR allows a higher bitrate (and therefore requires more storage space) to be allocated to the more complex segments of media files while less space is allocated to less complex segments. The average of these rates can be calculated to produce an average bitrate for the file.
It's pretty much smart compression for audio files.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082799 - 11/03/13 09:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
i think i can almost certainly pick out the difference in sound quality between FLAC and a 320. v0 especially.
im confident that i'd be able to pick flacs/mp3s on a double blind test.
where i notice the difference is in the texture of the tones. the reverberation of the bass lines, the minute details. especially FLAC is much more noticeable on intense parts of a song, where lots of different elements to a song reach a crescendo. its in those areas of a song where you notice every sound is seperate and distinct, without any fading out or blurring.
the difference is definitely not massive, and i can see how some people would say its imperceptible. a big part of it may even just be the placebo effect.
i also notice as well -- and this is just myself, no real backing or anything.... but, i notice that FLACs seemed to be layered or mastered better. the sounds are more "punchy" and distinct. the levels seem to be adjusted to present the sound better on a flac, as opposed to when i listen to the same copies on v0/mp3. that may sound stupid and ludicrous, and without any factual backing, but thats what i notice.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082809 - 11/03/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said: im confident that i'd be able to pick flacs/mp3s on a double blind test.
the difference is definitely not massive, and i can see how some people would say its imperceptible. a big part of it may even just be the placebo effect.
So which is it, the placebo effect, or a bona fide difference? You're arguing contradicting sides. A blind test would easily answer this question. If you're so confident you should test yourself.
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kneesocks
Divineress



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19082834 - 11/03/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I completely agree.
Quote:
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
IEMs are key for on-the-go usage. Cans suck for that scenario in every way.
I am a professional sound designer and audio-video producer, and honestly, the difference between MP3 V0, 256kbps and 320kbps sound designer is very difficult to discern on the average listener's earphones or headphones. Whether or not you can tell the difference also depends on the quality and frequency response of the equipment you're using for monitoring. I never sample or rip to any digital format other than uncompressed WAV until the work is finished, because any time you re-encode, like when editing and resampling, you're going to lose information, and small artifacts and errors accumulate very quickly. For archival purposes, if you have the space, rip to lossless formats like FLAC, since from there you have a copy that you can use to encode to various audio formats with minimal data loss and little risk of damaging the physical CD.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
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kneesocks
Divineress



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082874 - 11/03/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said:
Quote:
jewunit said: Yeah, I pretty much never believe anyone who says they can tell the difference between 320, V0, or lossless. I think that they THINK they can tell the difference. I have pretty decent equipment and I can't tell the difference, though I have shitty hearing range. I've yet to have anyone else tell me they can tell the difference, or accurately identify which they are listening to with any kind of consistency.
If I download flac files, which I rarely do, it's either because I'm gonna transcode it and reup it or because nothing else is available. If I had unlimited space I would probably download everything in flac when possible and just transcode it myself, but I don't so I'll continue with V0. I also don't use a program that plays flac.
I think the first thing I'm gonna buy myself when I have a job and some money is nice IEMs. Cans are great and all, but most of the time I could just listen through my speakers anyway which just blow them away. I need something nice for on the go listening.
i think i can almost certainly pick out the difference in sound quality between FLAC and a 320. v0 especially.
im confident that i'd be able to pick flacs/mp3s on a double blind test.
where i notice the difference is in the texture of the tones. the reverberation of the bass lines, the minute details. especially FLAC is much more noticeable on intense parts of a song, where lots of different elements to a song reach a crescendo. its in those areas of a song where you notice every sound is seperate and distinct, without any fading out or blurring.
the difference is definitely not massive, and i can see how some people would say its imperceptible. a big part of it may even just be the placebo effect.
i also notice as well -- and this is just myself, no real backing or anything.... but, i notice that FLACs seemed to be layered or mastered better. the sounds are more "punchy" and distinct. the levels seem to be adjusted to present the sound better on a flac, as opposed to when i listen to the same copies on v0/mp3. that may sound stupid and ludicrous, and without any factual backing, but thats what i notice. 
Of course it seems that way, since generally if music is ripped from a master copy to a lossless copy, the original bit depth and sample rate are preserved much more closely. When played back, this is much more accurately reflecting what the mixing engineer heard and was satisfied with after the mastering was completed.
Though, unless you have audio equipment capable of playing 192kHz@24bit, you're always going to lose some bit depth and sample rate just getting to a format where you can hear it on non-studio audio equipment. For instance, when a CD is printed, the master copy is reduced down to 44,100Hz@16bit.
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
Edited by kneesocks (11/03/13 09:54 PM)
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19082878 - 11/03/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
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jewunit
Brutal!


Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082896 - 11/03/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- !
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kneesocks
Divineress



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082907 - 11/03/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said: i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
Right on!
What are you using in regards to a DAC?
-------------------- "An ignorant man is lost, faithless, and filled with self-doubt; A soul that harbors doubt has no joy, not in this world or the next." -Bhagavad-gita 4:40
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19082966 - 11/03/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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okay, that utilities "a-b" test thing doesnt work in my foobar, however, i've just put two exact same named files of the same song in my playlist and shuffled them up, and hid all info so i cant see which is the FLAC and which is the v0.
im gonna listen to about the first 2 minutes of each to hear the main riffs of each song present themselves and i almost guarantee i will be able to pick the flac.
i promise i'm not just goign to lie about it to say im right. i'll be honest about my results.
listening to "The Naked And Famous's" song " Young Blood " in FLAC and v0. listening through audeze LCD-2's and a violectric v100amp.
will post results in about 5 minutes.
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082987 - 11/03/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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LOL.... i guessed the v0 mp3 was the FLAC....! 
the mp3 v0 sounds louder and brighter, the FLAC actually sounded quieter and a bit fuzzy....??
hrmm... upon closer inspection there is subtle differences between the two, but the v0 sounded "brighter" and "better" to my ears....
ahh well. maybe its just a placebo! i really do think i can hear the difference between flac though....
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19082994 - 11/03/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, that's what I thought. Try a few more. You won't really know unless you test with 10-20 songs.
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: kneesocks]
#19082997 - 11/03/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
kneesocks said:
Quote:
Soulidarity said: i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
Right on!
What are you using in regards to a DAC?
i just use my onboard PC soundcard via USB as a DAC for now. it's a soundblaster X-FI titanium soundcard.
i could upgrade a DAC, but they can be pretty expensive, and when i tested them at the shop, the increase in sound quality was really not all that much compared to what it is currently.
--------------------
  R.I.P. WoodRuss67, Todcasil, TheMerryIguana, The Rompus, Lord Senate. [/url]
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19083060 - 11/03/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Soulidarity said:
Quote:
kneesocks said:
Quote:
Soulidarity said: i'm almost certain i could pick the difference in a blind test. problem is you cant really blind test yourself. need to get someone to help me out with it. eventually i will and ill report back results.
i got a high end audio set up, with a pair of audeze lcd-2's/denon ah-d5000s, and a violectric v100 amp. between the two pairs of cans i can cover pretty much any genre well.
Right on!
What are you using in regards to a DAC?
i just use my onboard PC soundcard via USB as a DAC for now. it's a soundblaster X-FI titanium soundcard.
i could upgrade a DAC, but they can be pretty expensive, and when i tested them at the shop, the increase in sound quality was really not all that much compared to what it is currently.
My opinion on "audiophile" audio is that it's generally extremely overpriced. You're better off going with pro audio gear IMO.
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Soulidarity
With Your Halo Slippin . . .



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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19083164 - 11/03/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It really is overpriced and not worth the money. Also, the audiophile sound is not that great IMO either. The audiophile sound is more about being really detailed and presenting music as is originally intended, without coloring the sound.
But the thing is that the colouring of the sound is what makes it sound good! The audiophile sound can be flat and in interesting, especially for someone such as myself who listens to alot of electronic music.
The denon ah-d5000's are IMO just about some of the best value headphones available. For only $600 they are amazing. The problem is that they aren't produced anymore. Their equivalent is now produced by a company called fostex with the th600 I think it is. They now sell for almost twice the price at $1200...!
The denons play with great sound unamped from portable devices. They have a wonderful sound presentation and are definitely a bass heads phone.
But even that price range is a bit much for some people. Even just a pair of m50's or sennheisser hd 280s have great sound for half the price.
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jewunit
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19083190 - 11/03/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not sure $600 is something I would expect for "best value headphones".
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mindgnome
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19083310 - 11/03/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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flibbity what what? what the hell is a external sound card?
-------------------- "As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe "Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin
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Soulidarity
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: jewunit]
#19083355 - 11/03/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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it sounds expensive, but for what you get at that price the d5000s are amazing value. they are towards the higher end of the scale obviously, but as i said before, their equivalent now sells at 1200.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: Soulidarity]
#19083583 - 11/04/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm perfectly happy with my M50s. I've listened to some LCD-2s before and I wasn't blown away or anything. They were a bit better than Beyer DT880s which I've also spent a few hours listening to, but weren't nearly as comfortable. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19084021 - 11/04/13 02:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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lossless sounds way better. V0 you can get a brighter and louder sound, but the mid and low end sound ends up being grittier and you can't turn up the volume without getting distortion.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


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Re: is getting an external sound card worth it? [Re: All We Perceive]
#19084139 - 11/04/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
All We Perceive said: I mainly run my laptop to my amp/speakers or listen with headphones both via the onboard motherboard audio out. Especially with headphones, I'm pretty into trying to get the best sound I can. I have heard that having an external sound card will tangibly increase sound quality due to the subpar quality of the amplifier in audio out. Has anyone done this? Is the sound quality really that much better?
Yes.
Especially for music production.
Edited by Beanhead (11/04/13 04:09 AM)
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