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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Children are luxury goods
    #19080499 - 11/03/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And the tax code should reflect.  No more allowing "exceptions" for dependents.  Instead, there should be surcharges on parents' 1040 for further burdening our educational and healthcare systems.  We can fix any population shrinkage problems by incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base and creates a net positive benefit on the economy and employment.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19080535 - 11/03/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I half agree. As someone who doesn't intend to have kids it seems like a raw deal to have to pay for people's kids when all they are doing at this stage is thinning the resource pool anyway.

The problem with this is you will end up with children being born to parents without the money to really look after them properly and having really shitty upbringings as a result, when they never had a say in the first place.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Grapefruit]
    #19080642 - 11/03/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think then the best solution would be to keep the system as it currently is but to create an estate tax equal to the sum total of a person's childcare deductions that would kick in as long as the deceased's dependents were 18 or older.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 5
    #19080680 - 11/03/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
And the tax code should reflect.  No more allowing "exceptions" for dependents.  Instead, there should be surcharges on parents' 1040 for further burdening our educational and healthcare systems.  We can fix any population shrinkage problems by incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base and creates a net positive benefit on the economy and employment.




I think we need a clean tax code that does not reward reproduction or marriage.  I think we need to have a government that shoots border jumpers on sight.  They are a net drain on the economy and are taking your job away.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 1
    #19082164 - 11/03/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Anyone who thinks that children are goods is an idiot.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19082487 - 11/03/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think we need to have a government that shoots border jumpers on sight.




:rolleyes:


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19083125 - 11/03/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Anyone who thinks that children are goods is an idiot.




Everything is a good and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 1
    #19084212 - 11/04/13 05:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Then you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "goods."

I suggest you take a remedial English class before you post on these fora again.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 2
    #19084517 - 11/04/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
And the tax code should reflect.  No more allowing "exceptions" for dependents.  Instead, there should be surcharges on parents' 1040 for further burdening our educational and healthcare systems.  We can fix any population shrinkage problems by incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base and creates a net positive benefit on the economy and employment.




"incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base"

What nonsense, illegal low skilled workers are a burden to City, State, and Federal budgets, the negatives vastly outweigh any of the positives.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: qman]
    #19084762 - 11/04/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

workers are a burden to City, State, and Federal budgets, the negatives vastly outweigh any of the positives.




Who will pick our oranges  for almost  to no money?  This isn't exactly a full time job . It doesn't attract white kids from the suburb . They don't apply .  If you had to offer a wage high enough to attract skilled workers who don't wanna bounce around from farm to farm living  out of a van  oj would probably cost 15 dollars a gallon instead of 6 or 7 .  This goes for everything picked with human hands .  We're the most well fed nation living off the backs of  poor migrant workers who we dont have much appreciation or respect for .
  If you push out all the migrant farm workers your gunna pay for it big time in the checkout line.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: psilynut]
    #19084859 - 11/04/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

workers are a burden to City, State, and Federal budgets, the negatives vastly outweigh any of the positives.




Who will pick our oranges  for almost  to no money?  This isn't exactly a full time job . It doesn't attract white kids from the suburb . They don't apply .  If you had to offer a wage high enough to attract skilled workers who don't wanna bounce around from farm to farm living  out of a van  oj would probably cost 15 dollars a gallon instead of 6 or 7 .  This goes for everything picked with human hands .  We're the most well fed nation living off the backs of  poor migrant workers who we dont have much appreciation or respect for .
  If you push out all the migrant farm workers your gunna pay for it big time in the checkout line.




"Gunna pay for it big time in the checkout line"

Or maybe the profit margins of the business owners just get squeezed "big time". 

Guess who suffers from the use of illegal workers?  Low skilled labor and the tax payer. Guess who benefits, the capitalists that hire the ILLEGAL workers, and PROFIT from it.

To make the argument that cheaper prices might result from this practice is just nonsense, the negatives vastly outweigh any of the potential positives.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: qman]
    #19084905 - 11/04/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Are you saying that if labor to pick fruit becomes more expensive, the vendors will sell for the same price and eat the difference?

That's a ridiculous assumption.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19084985 - 11/04/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Are you saying that if labor to pick fruit becomes more expensive, the vendors will sell for the same price and eat the difference?

That's a ridiculous assumption.




I said their profit margin would be squeezed, at what percentage level is any ones guess.

Would the fruit price go higher?  Most likely, how much is any ones guess.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: qman] * 1
    #19085100 - 11/04/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am of the opinion that you shouldn't receive a tax break for having a child. I also believe that you should only be taxed for public schools if you have children that are using that system. Those without children & those who send their children to private school should be exempt


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19085160 - 11/04/13 12:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So, you want public education to have all of the downsides of public education, like inefficiency and incompetence, but none of the upsides, like funding.


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19085182 - 11/04/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Idk about taxing people. But reproduction should DEFINITELY be highly discouraged. I'm not sure the best way to go about this. Tax deductions for getting a vasectomy before having more than one child would be a good start.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19085192 - 11/04/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Idk about taxing people. But reproduction should DEFINITELY be highly discouraged. I'm not sure the best way to go about this. Tax deductions for getting a vasectomy before having more than one child would be a good start.



And pretty much impossible to verify...particularly in communities that procreate excessively.  In addition, a tax deduction doesn't mean much in those communities because they rarely have enough income to use it.


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085208 - 11/04/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I like the idea of increasing vasectomy rates. There has to be a way to encourage this through monetary means.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19085229 - 11/04/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Fund clinics that give them away for free.

My vasectomy was the best $5 I ever spent.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085270 - 11/04/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you want public education to have all of the downsides of public education, like inefficiency and incompetence, but none of the upsides, like funding.




I'd like to see it funded by those who choose to use it


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19085287 - 11/04/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
I like the idea of increasing vasectomy rates. There has to be a way to encourage this through monetary means.




Don't be a sexist now, let us find incentives for dumb whores to get sterilized too


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19085301 - 11/04/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Then it's just a tuition based school run by people with no incentive to compete or do any better.

Pretty much like the postal service.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod] * 2
    #19085303 - 11/04/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
And the tax code should reflect.  No more allowing "exceptions" for dependents.  Instead, there should be surcharges on parents' 1040 for further burdening our educational and healthcare systems.  We can fix any population shrinkage problems by incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base and creates a net positive benefit on the economy and employment.




I think we need a clean tax code that does not reward reproduction or marriage.  I think we need to have a government that shoots border jumpers on sight.  They are a net drain on the economy and are taking your job away.




You're not a Native American, get out.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085313 - 11/04/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What an incredibly stupid thing to say.  Are you saying that everyone except native americans are "border jumpers?"

I'm confident that Zappa was born here.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085323 - 11/04/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No, I was just making a joke. Sarcasm button needed?

But really, if you think we should shoot people who are seeking a better life in this country, then you're a shrill bigot fascist who deserves nothing but a taste of your own medicine.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19085330 - 11/04/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simplicitry said:
I am of the opinion that you shouldn't receive a tax break for having a child. I also believe that you should only be taxed for public schools if you have children that are using that system. Those without children & those who send their children to private school should be exempt




Schools are underfunded enough as it is.  Everybody in society benefits from a robust public education system.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085338 - 11/04/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
No, I was just making a joke. Sarcasm button needed?

But really, if you think we should shoot people who are seeking a better life in this country, then you're a shrill bigot fascist who deserves nothing but a taste of your own medicine.



There is a legal way to immigrate to this country.

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Schools are underfunded enough as it is. 



If anything, public education is overfunded.  It needs to be run more efficiently.  Throwing more money at it has proven to be ineffective at improving education.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085358 - 11/04/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That could very well be true, but let's get the efficiency and proficiency up to standards before we start cutting budgets.  I mean, you've got inner-city teachers buying their own supplies for class.  This is ridiculous.  When you have teachers making $20-$25k a year to be a glorified baby sitter because they're teaching to have their students pass the next standardized test, of course issues are going to arise.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085366 - 11/04/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
No, I was just making a joke. Sarcasm button needed?

But really, if you think we should shoot people who are seeking a better life in this country, then you're a shrill bigot fascist who deserves nothing but a taste of your own medicine.



There is a legal way to immigrate to this country.




This reply has nothing to do with my statement. If you think people should be shot for crossing the border, you're a shrill, bigot, fascist.


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Edited by Smokey420 (11/04/13 01:51 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19085406 - 11/04/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
That could very well be true, but let's get the efficiency and proficiency up to standards before we start cutting budgets.  I mean, you've got inner-city teachers buying their own supplies for class.  This is ridiculous.  When you have teachers making $20-$25k a year to be a glorified baby sitter because they're teaching to have their students pass the next standardized test, of course issues are going to arise.



I disagree.  Throwing more money at it will simply increase the amount of waste.  It won't raise the standards.  Only by biting the bullet and making drastic changes can the system be fixed.  I would implement a voucher system allowing private schools to compete for the same tax dollars.

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
This reply has nothing to do with my statement. If you think people should be shot for crossing the boarder, you're a shrill, bigot, fascist.



I'm all for shooting people.  I think people should be shot if they can't spell border.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085411 - 11/04/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
No, I was just making a joke. Sarcasm button needed?

But really, if you think we should shoot people who are seeking a better life in this country, then you're a shrill bigot fascist who deserves nothing but a taste of your own medicine.



There is a legal way to immigrate to this country.




And it is technically possible for me to build my own car.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word "goods."

I suggest you take a remedial English class before you post on these fora again.




oh hai its teh most recognzble n fact checked site on teh webs, providing a def of goods that are clearly reconcilable of sndrkpa's commentz


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19085421 - 11/04/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

And it is technically possible for me to build my own car.





Not only possible, but fun and rewarding as well.  I've done it.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085432 - 11/04/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I would be willing to bet that a good 30-40% of "Americans" born in this county wouldn't be able to pass the requirements for legal immigration.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085450 - 11/04/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:

And it is technically possible for me to build my own car.





Not only possible, but fun and rewarding as well.  I've done it.




Welcome to America then!


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Offlineqman
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085459 - 11/04/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I would be willing to bet that a good 30-40% of "Americans" born in this county wouldn't be able to pass the requirements for legal immigration.




So what? 

Do you think every person should be allowed to enter and stay the in US?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19085477 - 11/04/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I would be willing to bet that a good 30-40% of "Americans" born in this county wouldn't be able to pass the requirements for legal immigration.



So?

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:


Welcome to America then!



I was born here...but thanks.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085482 - 11/04/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're welcome!


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: qman]
    #19085492 - 11/04/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I would be willing to bet that a good 30-40% of "Americans" born in this county wouldn't be able to pass the requirements for legal immigration.




So what? 

Do you think every person should be allowed to enter and stay the in US?




If someone wants to come to this country, who am I to say they shouldn't?
Being born in a cretin place on the planet doesn't make you more important or deserving.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085502 - 11/04/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think any ideas of nationality are inherently wrong. Call me crazy. :shrug:


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InvisibleSimplicitry
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085506 - 11/04/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Then it's just a tuition based school run by people with no incentive to compete or do any better.

Pretty much like the postal service.




They would have to compete with private institutions if people got the tax exemption for choosing a private school
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
That could very well be true, but let's get the efficiency and proficiency up to standards before we start cutting budgets.  I mean, you've got inner-city teachers buying their own supplies for class.  This is ridiculous.  When you have teachers making $20-$25k a year to be a glorified baby sitter because they're teaching to have their students pass the next standardized test, of course issues are going to arise.



I disagree.  Throwing more money at it will simply increase the amount of waste.  It won't raise the standards.  Only by biting the bullet and making drastic changes can the system be fixed.  I would implement a voucher system allowing private schools to compete for the same tax dollars.

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
This reply has nothing to do with my statement. If you think people should be shot for crossing the boarder, you're a shrill, bigot, fascist.



I'm all for shooting people.  I think people should be shot if they can't spell border.




Vouchers would be my next choice, but I still prefer what I said above


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I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19085524 - 11/04/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Simplicitry said:
I am of the opinion that you shouldn't receive a tax break for having a child. I also believe that you should only be taxed for public schools if you have children that are using that system. Those without children & those who send their children to private school should be exempt




Schools are underfunded enough as it is.  Everybody in society benefits from a robust public education system.




Benefit? You must not have grown up near me in Chicago. Their public education certianly isn't beneficial to the vast amount of people it is supposed to service. My private education? Now that was beneficial


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085527 - 11/04/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
That could very well be true, but let's get the efficiency and proficiency up to standards before we start cutting budgets.  I mean, you've got inner-city teachers buying their own supplies for class.  This is ridiculous.  When you have teachers making $20-$25k a year to be a glorified baby sitter because they're teaching to have their students pass the next standardized test, of course issues are going to arise.



I disagree.  Throwing more money at it will simply increase the amount of waste.  It won't raise the standards.  Only by biting the bullet and making drastic changes can the system be fixed.  I would implement a voucher system allowing private schools to compete for the same tax dollars.

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
This reply has nothing to do with my statement. If you think people should be shot for crossing the boarder, you're a shrill, bigot, fascist.



I'm all for shooting people.  I think people should be shot if they can't spell border.






God forbid someone makes a spelling mistake on the internet, good thing we have fascists like you to clear the way for a mistake free socity. Maybe the NSA should look into you tho, all this talking of shooting people, sounds like early warning signs of a mass shooter.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085558 - 11/04/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why would the NSA care about a potential mass shooter?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085571 - 11/04/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why would the NSA care about a potential mass shooter?



Actually, that's a great question. Maybe you're not all bad.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420] * 2
    #19085577 - 11/04/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I would be willing to bet that a good 30-40% of "Americans" born in this county wouldn't be able to pass the requirements for legal immigration.




So what? 

Do you think every person should be allowed to enter and stay the in US?




If someone wants to come to this country, who am I to say they shouldn't?
Being born in a cretin place on the planet doesn't make you more important or deserving.




You know what group suffers the most when illegal low skilled citizens enter the US?  The low skilled labor that is already here, mainly black Americans.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085581 - 11/04/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Good...bad...I don't trouble myself with such distinctions.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: qman]
    #19085608 - 11/04/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I would be willing to bet that a good 30-40% of "Americans" born in this county wouldn't be able to pass the requirements for legal immigration.




So what? 

Do you think every person should be allowed to enter and stay the in US?




If someone wants to come to this country, who am I to say they shouldn't?
Being born in a cretin place on the planet doesn't make you more important or deserving.




You know what group suffers the most when illegal low skilled citizens enter the US?  The low skilled labor that is already here, mainly black Americans.




Is this their fault, or the fault of employers who hire them for cheap labor? I actually realize this fact more then most, allot of work I have done in the past has since been replaced by migrant workers; however, like i said, I don't blame them. I blame the company, or management.


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Edited by Smokey420 (11/04/13 02:12 PM)


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085628 - 11/04/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I also don't change my world views because they affect me personally. It is not moral (in my opinion) to treat others differently based on where they were born.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085665 - 11/04/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People come here because we have a higher standard of living.  The only reason we do is because we are the top dog.  In order for the top dog to be the top dog, there has to be lots of underdogs. 

I'm all for staying top dog until most of the oil is gone...after that, it's a shit sandwich for the entire world.  In the meantime, I see limiting immigration as a way of keeping underdogs in that position so that I can continue to be one of the top dogs.

P.S. *affect


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085874 - 11/04/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
People come here because we have a higher standard of living.  The only reason we do is because we are the top dog.  In order for the top dog to be the top dog, there has to be lots of underdogs. 

I'm all for staying top dog until most of the oil is gone...after that, it's a shit sandwich for the entire world.  In the meantime, I see limiting immigration as a way of keeping underdogs in that position so that I can continue to be one of the top dogs.

P.S. *affect




You're out for yourself, nothing wrong with that.

I just view things differently.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: psilynut]
    #19085969 - 11/04/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

workers are a burden to City, State, and Federal budgets, the negatives vastly outweigh any of the positives.




Who will pick our oranges  for almost  to no money? 




Almost no money?  By the way my answer would be you.
Quote:

This isn't exactly a full time job . It doesn't attract white kids from the suburb . They don't apply




So?  How about surfer dude on food stamps?  How about any of several million unemployed youths inner or outer city?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19085980 - 11/04/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Are you saying that if labor to pick fruit becomes more expensive, the vendors will sell for the same price and eat the difference?

That's a ridiculous assumption.



Yes it is.  So is the assumption that we would have to pay more if we throw out the border jumpers and cut off all aid to those who refuse work.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19085993 - 11/04/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
And the tax code should reflect.  No more allowing "exceptions" for dependents.  Instead, there should be surcharges on parents' 1040 for further burdening our educational and healthcare systems.  We can fix any population shrinkage problems by incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base and creates a net positive benefit on the economy and employment.




I think we need a clean tax code that does not reward reproduction or marriage.  I think we need to have a government that shoots border jumpers on sight.  They are a net drain on the economy and are taking your job away.




You're not a Native American, get out.




Actually I am partially descended from the Passamaquoddy tribe.  So you get out.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086002 - 11/04/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
And the tax code should reflect.  No more allowing "exceptions" for dependents.  Instead, there should be surcharges on parents' 1040 for further burdening our educational and healthcare systems.  We can fix any population shrinkage problems by incentivizing immigration, both legal and illegal, which expands the tax base and creates a net positive benefit on the economy and employment.




I think we need a clean tax code that does not reward reproduction or marriage.  I think we need to have a government that shoots border jumpers on sight.  They are a net drain on the economy and are taking your job away.




You're not a Native American, get out.




Actually I am partially descended from the Passamaquoddy tribe.  So you get out.




I'll leave, if you pay me to leave.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086049 - 11/04/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
So is the assumption that we would have to pay more if we throw out the border jumpers and cut off all aid to those who refuse work.



I agree.  It's likely that labor costs will go up, but my crystal ball is no more or less accurate than random selection. 

The reality, however, is that we won't stop illegal immigration as long as we have a border with Mexico and Mexico's economy is what it is...


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19086295 - 11/04/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
So is the assumption that we would have to pay more if we throw out the border jumpers and cut off all aid to those who refuse work.



I agree.  It's likely that labor costs will go up, but my crystal ball is no more or less accurate than random selection.


  The illegals where I live get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation
Quote:



The reality, however, is that we won't stop illegal immigration as long as we have a border with Mexico and Mexico's economy is what it is...



The reality, however, is that we can't stop murder as long as there are people.  There are very few Mexican illegals where I live.  Mexico is not the only problem.  I also speak to Eastern Europe and all of South America.  Also Western Europe.  The cheats come form everywhere.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086657 - 11/04/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The illegals where I live get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation


Yeah, but you don't live in the central valley of California, either.
Quote:


The reality, however, is that we can't stop murder as long as there are people.  There are very few Mexican illegals where I live.  Mexico is not the only problem.  I also speak to Eastern Europe and all of South America.  Also Western Europe.  The cheats come form everywhere.



Most come through Mexico, however.  If Mexico's economy were better, a large portion would not come to America.  We CAN secure the borders at ports...securing them at a line in the sand is much, much harder.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19086684 - 11/04/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The illegals where I live get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation


Yeah, but you don't live in the central valley of California, either.


What do they get paid there?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086695 - 11/04/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've no idea why you don't live in the central valley of California, dude...why would you ask me that?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19086716 - 11/04/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You seemed to pretend to know.  I know what they get paid here.  If you don't know what they get paid in the Central Valley you should probably not mention it in a discussion about border jumping scum.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086761 - 11/04/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You ninja edited...

In the CV, at least a few years ago, migrant pickers were making between 40 and 60 a day.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086771 - 11/04/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Bit mystified as to how y'all can complain about how much illegals make and yet deny their economic impact.  Generally employers do not continue to pay contractless temporary workers who create less economic value than they draw in salary.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19086777 - 11/04/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"The illegals where I live get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation"

You must hire a bunch of illegals for your business if you know that as a "fact."  Why do you complain about illegals when you count on them for your profit margin?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19086784 - 11/04/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Please quote the post where someone complained about how much illegal immigrants make.  Thank you in advance


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19086794 - 11/04/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
"The illegals where I live get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation"

You must hire a bunch of illegals for your business if you know that as a "fact."  Why do you complain about illegals when you count on them for your profit margin?



Dude, here's a protip:  Learn to use the reply feature.  You've posted over 2000 times.  You made this post in reply to sonamdrukpa.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19086853 - 11/04/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It the one right in between zappa's sneer and your breezy condescension.  You're welcome!


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 1
    #19086859 - 11/04/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I see...so you just made that strawman so you could tear it down.

Kudos, bro.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19086878 - 11/04/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You ninja edited...

In the CV, at least a few years ago, migrant pickers were making between 40 and 60 a day.




I didn't ninja anything of substance.  40 and 60 plus what? Lodging?  Food?  No tax?  60 cash is more than minimum wage and 40 cash is just below and over if you count lodging and transportation.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086894 - 11/04/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

plus nothing...

It isn't about what the person takes home.  It's about the cost to the employer.  Paying someone 60 a day cash is far cheaper than paying minimum wage and payroll taxes.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa] * 1
    #19086896 - 11/04/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Bit mystified as to how y'all can complain about how much illegals make and yet deny their economic impact.  Generally employers do not continue to pay contractless temporary workers who create less economic value than they draw in salary.




Huh?  Their economic impact is to depress wages.  I wasn't complaining about how much they make.  I was saying they aren't getting fucked and that a whole shitload of American citizens could be making the same money if they weren't lazy fat fucks who prefer to flip burgers.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19086917 - 11/04/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
plus nothing...

It isn't about what the person takes home.  It's about the cost to the employer.  Paying someone 60 a day cash is far cheaper than paying minimum wage and payroll taxes.



ORLY?  First of all he only has to pay half of the payroll taxes.  The other half comes out of the shmuck's check.  Second of all if the employer pays cash he doesn't get to write of the labor at all.  That means he pays taxes on the labor at his top personal or business tax rate.  His last dollar.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19086931 - 11/04/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sure he can..he can issue a bunch of 1099s out to Juan Valdez.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19087127 - 11/04/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sure he can..he can issue a bunch of 1099s out to Juan Valdez.




Ummmmmm no, he can't


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19087401 - 11/04/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Zappa never answered how he knew how much illegal immigrants cost.  I'm just going to assume that Zappa uses illegal labor while bitching about illegal immigrants just like Mitt.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: psilynut]
    #19087698 - 11/04/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

workers are a burden to City, State, and Federal budgets, the negatives vastly outweigh any of the positives.




Who will pick our oranges  for almost  to no money?  This isn't exactly a full time job . It doesn't attract white kids from the suburb . They don't apply .  If you had to offer a wage high enough to attract skilled workers who don't wanna bounce around from farm to farm living  out of a van  oj would probably cost 15 dollars a gallon instead of 6 or 7 .  This goes for everything picked with human hands .  We're the most well fed nation living off the backs of  poor migrant workers who we dont have much appreciation or respect for .
  If you push out all the migrant farm workers your gunna pay for it big time in the checkout line.





When I was a teenager, one of the main jobs in the summer was shoveling shit from cowpens or bucking bales of alfalfa.  Mostly high school kids--or yard work also. 

Now kids are taught that you needn't work--there is a great Big Teat Extended from washington DC. 

Here is a prime example of Government Horeshit:  Kids can stay on their parents insurance until age 26.  Hmmmmm......when i turned 18 I was told that I didn't have to pay anything to live at home....I just had to get a job and earn money for my own clothes, etc. 

I guess values have changed in the US.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19087908 - 11/04/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:





Almost no money?  By the way my answer would be you.




So?  How about surfer dude on food stamps?  How about any of several million unemployed youths inner or outer city?




I have a job that pays way more , with benefits and shit why would I do that?
Youths ? Are you talking about child labor ?
  I'm not saying you can't get  city kids from  here to go do these jobs  , you'll just have to pay them more to go live in a van in a field chasing crops to get paid by the box you fill . Which means you will pay more every time you eat  , especially if they form a union , then you will literally have to bend over at the register paying out the ass will be part of a contract.
    If we kick out all of the illegals who will stand in front of Home Depot offering dirt cheap yard work and handjobs .  Who will that line of work be returned to?

 

Quote:






Now kids are taught that you needn't work--there is a great Big Teat Extended from washington DC. 








What class is this taught in ?  Are you saying they teach kids you can not work and live below the poverty line  and they find it appealing.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: psilynut]
    #19087915 - 11/04/13 11:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:

What class is this taught in ?  Are you saying they teach kids you can not work and live below the poverty line  and they find it appealing.



Kids learn by watching their parents.  When daddy is gone and mommy lives off of the government dole, kids learn that as the right way to live.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19089462 - 11/05/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Zappa never answered how he knew how much illegal immigrants cost.  I'm just going to assume that Zappa uses illegal labor while bitching about illegal immigrants just like Mitt.




Everybody in construction knows what the rate is for a day laborer around here, legal or illegal.  They cost the same.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19089959 - 11/05/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Zappa never answered how he knew how much illegal immigrants cost.  I'm just going to assume that Zappa uses illegal labor while bitching about illegal immigrants just like Mitt.




Everybody in construction knows what the rate is for a day laborer around here, legal or illegal.  They cost the same.



Bullshit, no one pays undocumented workers the same wage.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19090263 - 11/05/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Bit mystified as to how y'all can complain about how much illegals make and yet deny their economic impact.  Generally employers do not continue to pay contractless temporary workers who create less economic value than they draw in salary.




Huh?  Their economic impact is to depress wages.  I wasn't complaining about how much they make.  I was saying they aren't getting fucked and that a whole shitload of American citizens could be making the same money if they weren't lazy fat fucks who prefer to flip burgers.




Immigrant workers might depress wages.  The solution then would be to offer immediate amnesty to all immigrant workers and raise the minimum wage.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19090278 - 11/05/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I see...so you just made that strawman so you could tear it down.

Kudos, bro.




The general point that illegals provide a positive economic impact still stands and is relevant to other points made in the conversation.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19090382 - 11/05/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's a claim you're making, but you've offered no evidence to support the notion that illegal immigrants provide a net positive economic impact on the nation.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19091125 - 11/05/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Zappa never answered how he knew how much illegal immigrants cost.  I'm just going to assume that Zappa uses illegal labor while bitching about illegal immigrants just like Mitt.




Everybody in construction knows what the rate is for a day laborer around here, legal or illegal.  They cost the same.



Bullshit, no one pays undocumented workers the same wage.




They don't ask day laborers their status.  They just pick them up.  You know nothing.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19091133 - 11/05/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I see...so you just made that strawman so you could tear it down.

Kudos, bro.




The general point that illegals provide a positive economic impact still stands and is relevant to other points made in the conversation.




That is complete bullshit.  They don't pay taxes, they take jobs that could go to legit people and they do depress wages


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091336 - 11/05/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They don't pay an income tax, but they pay taxes every time they spend money. You know nothing.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19091440 - 11/05/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
They don't pay an income tax, but they pay taxes every time they spend money. You know nothing.




That is such a fucking joke it beggars belief.  It doesn't amount to spit nor does one nickel of it go to the federal government.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091497 - 11/05/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I thought tea-baggers like you hated the federal goverment. Why should that be any of your concern? What happened to all this talk of "taxed enough already"? I guess you only want that to apply to wealthy white Americans who own businesses.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19091586 - 11/05/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I thought tea-baggers like you hated the federal goverment. Why should that be any of your concern? What happened to all this talk of "taxed enough already"? I guess you only want that to apply to wealthy white Americans who own businesses.




There is a federal government.  There are some legit functions of a federal government.  Millions of dollars of my money has gone to the federal government.  Not one cent of it went there through sales taxes.  The illegal fucks do not pay income taxes.  They don't pay payroll taxes.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091644 - 11/05/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe you should blame the employers who hire undocumented workers, rather then impoverished people who work their asses off to have a better life for them and their families.
For someone who pretends to value hard work; you're filled with allot of hate directed at people who work harder then most. I've worked with allot of undocumented Mexican immigrants, and they are some of the hardest working people you will ever meet. Given the opportunity, I think the majority of people who are undocumented would love to gain full citizenship, but for many, it's unrealistic because they don't know English; or they're afraid they will be deported if they apply for citizenship once already in America.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19091685 - 11/05/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
Maybe you should blame the employers who hire undocumented workers, rather then impoverished people who work their asses off to have a better life for them and their families.




I blame them both but the illegal border jumpers need to get the fuck out and make their own countries not a shithole
Quote:


For someone who pretends to value hard work; you're filled with allot of hate directed at people who work harder then most. I've worked with allot of undocumented Mexican immigrants, and they are some of the hardest working people you will ever meet. Given the opportunity, I think the majority of people who are undocumented would love to gain full citizenship, but for many, it's unrealistic because they don't know English; or they're afraid they will be deported if they apply for citizenship once already in America.




I know they work hard.  I admire that.  Fat fuck American punks whining about how hard it is to make fries or pour coffee can kiss my ass.  But I also know the border jumping scum are not paying taxes.  There is a process.  I know several people who have gone through it and become citizens.  I realize it is hard.  It should be hard.  Speaking English is not a requirement.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091767 - 11/05/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I agree they should pay taxes like everyone else.
I don't think they should be kicked out of the country though, and they certainly deserve more respect then they're given; they are human beings not cattle.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19091838 - 11/05/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I agree they should pay taxes like everyone else.
I don't think they should be kicked out of the country though, and they certainly deserve more respect then they're given; they are human beings not cattle.



They are law breaking cowards.  Should we have totally open borders and let anybody in?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091877 - 11/05/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I see...so you just made that strawman so you could tear it down.

Kudos, bro.




The general point that illegals provide a positive economic impact still stands and is relevant to other points made in the conversation.




That is complete bullshit.  They don't pay taxes, they take jobs that could go to legit people and they do depress wages




Except that illegal immigrant employers like yourself expect the citizens to take the same wage as the illegals.  That's why you hire the illegals, because they're cheaper.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19091881 - 11/05/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think we should.
When I look at the earth from space, I see no borders other then oceans.
I think nationalism is ridiculous, but that's just my opinion.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19092050 - 11/05/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I see...so you just made that strawman so you could tear it down.

Kudos, bro.




The general point that illegals provide a positive economic impact still stands and is relevant to other points made in the conversation.




That is complete bullshit.  They don't pay taxes, they take jobs that could go to legit people and they do depress wages




Except that illegal immigrant employers like yourself expect the citizens to take the same wage as the illegals.  That's why you hire the illegals, because they're cheaper.




The illegals around here get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation.  Cash.  That works out to probably an equivalent take home of almost $20 an hour.  How much do you make?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19092062 - 11/05/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What fantasy land do you live in that undocumented workers get $20 a hour? :rofl2:


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19092135 - 11/05/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The illegals around here get paid $100 a day plus lunch and transportation.  Cash.  That works out to probably an equivalent take home of almost $20 an hour.  How much do you make?




You use words like "equivalent take home" to try to obfuscate that illegals get paid less, and simply don't pay taxes on their wages.

Construction workers only work 5 hours a day?

Also, my income is irrelevant to the discussion.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19092178 - 11/05/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i don't even know where to start this is a derpa derp post
this is way to sillly il have none of that move along move along nothing to see here!!!


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19092205 - 11/05/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Man, if you're going to call something a "derpa derpa" post, you could at least use correct spelling and capitalization.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19095015 - 11/06/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Duplicate


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Smokey420]
    #19095018 - 11/06/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
What fantasy land do you live in that undocumented workers get $20 a hour? :rofl2:


Pay attention.  They get paid 100 a day plus lunch, call it seven or eight for lunch plus transportation, call it another seven or eight so that is around $15.  This brings the net to around $115.  Net.  $20 an hour is only $160 a day gross.  Take 15% for FICA that leaves $136.  Federal and State taxes take more.  I don't have a tax table in front of me but it isn't far from what is necessary to knock another $20 off.  Then there is unemployment tax and disability tax.

You children have no fucking idea what people pay in taxes which is partly due to the fact that the government deliberately obscures half of the FICA and unemployment.  If you ever did anything other than cash a paycheck you would know this.  They would have to gross about $20 an hour to net what they net


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19095879 - 11/06/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a claim you're making, but you've offered no evidence to support the notion that illegal immigrants provide a net positive economic impact on the nation.




Haha, you got me.


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Offlinemeatables
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19096601 - 11/06/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

IMO people should have to meet certain prerequisites and be able to pass a competency test in order to procreate...

We have eradicated (for the most part) the natural fittest=survival... I'm oft reminded of the movie Idiocracy... I see those genetically inferior specimens in my community already and it seems to be getting worse... ever watch The Learning Channel? It makes me frusterated....

Anyway... tax credits for children and spouse should be kept to taxpayers with kids and spouses... I don't agree with ppl being on welfare and having four kids so they get a fat tax return... is bullshit....

I'm a parent... I pay my taxes.. will recieve money from my government for such... probly gonna home school as well for the simple fact our education system is garbage...

I do agree that we are (supposedly) a society in whole and unfortunately that requires picking up the slack... I agree it is our responsibility as part of a democracy (another laugh) to help each other necessarily. .. but corruption and bigotry and leaches just make it hard on those who try to do right... whatever


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: meatables]
    #19096616 - 11/06/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And I'm pretty sure if there were an over abundance of low skill labor jobs we (americans) have enough lazy teenagers to fill that demand... the work and pay sucks but that shit builds character and appreciation which is much lacking in our society IMO


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: meatables]
    #19096799 - 11/06/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

meatables said:
And I'm pretty sure if there were an over abundance of low skill labor jobs we (americans) have enough lazy teenagers to fill that demand... the work and pay sucks but that shit builds character and appreciation which is much lacking in our society IMO



There are plenty of those jobs.  The illegals are doing them now.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19096957 - 11/06/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

meatables said:
And I'm pretty sure if there were an over abundance of low skill labor jobs we (americans) have enough lazy teenagers to fill that demand... the work and pay sucks but that shit builds character and appreciation which is much lacking in our society IMO



There are plenty of those jobs.  The illegals are doing them now.





If they (illegals) were removed from said position...


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097098 - 11/06/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

meatables said:
And I'm pretty sure if there were an over abundance of low skill labor jobs we (americans) have enough lazy teenagers to fill that demand... the work and pay sucks but that shit builds character and appreciation which is much lacking in our society IMO



There are plenty of those jobs.  The illegals are doing them now.




Because employers like you won't hire the American worker.  Get that cheap illegal immigrant pay so you can profit more $$$.  Just like Mitt.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097121 - 11/06/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't hire them and you won't do the work.  They aren't cheap.  They cost far more than minimum wage.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097151 - 11/06/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hire them and you won't do the work.  They aren't cheap.  They cost far more than minimum wage.




If you paid the American worker a fair wage instead of hiring illegals for a wage that would make them wealthy in Mexico, you would find plenty of legal workers for your business.  But you would rather pay cash, not offer benefits, and hire illegal immigrants to do your work for you.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097196 - 11/06/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I don't hire them and you won't do the work.  They aren't cheap.  They cost far more than minimum wage.




If you paid the American worker a fair wage instead of hiring illegals for a wage that would make them wealthy in Mexico, you would find plenty of legal workers for your business.  But you would rather pay cash, not offer benefits, and hire illegal immigrants to do your work for you.




The day laborers around here make roughly the equivalent of $20 an hour on the books.  If you showed up and worked you would probably get more just because you speak English.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097226 - 11/06/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, you keep claiming these "day laborers" make "roughly" a decent wage.  You haven't admitted that these "day laborers" are more likely to be illegal immigrants than not.  And apparently if you "speak English" you would "you would probably get more" only further proves the point that illegal immigrants get paid less than their American counterparts.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097345 - 11/06/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Yeah, you keep claiming these "day laborers" make "roughly" a decent wage.  You haven't admitted that these "day laborers" are more likely to be illegal immigrants than not.  And apparently if you "speak English" you would "you would probably get more" only further proves the point that illegal immigrants get paid less than their American counterparts.




They make more than a decent wage.  They are more likely to be illegal.  The ones who speak English do get paid more.  Duh.  You are worth less money if you are working for somebody who doesn't speak your language.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097425 - 11/06/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You really do know a lot about the employment of illegal immigrants.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097451 - 11/06/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You seem to not want these undocumented folk to work.  Why do you hate them so?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097452 - 11/06/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've been through the day labor deal personally... are talking about an actual staffing agency or random ppl without jobs looking for work?

Working through a labor agency u r still required to prove citizenship and pay taxes to a ss#.... and at min wage how can they be making the same as someone making 20/h otb?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19097465 - 11/06/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You seem to not want these undocumented folk to work.  Why do you hate them so?




Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a claim you're making, but you've offered no evidence to support the notion that illegal immigrants provide a net positive economic impact on the nation.




You know the answer.  Stop asking stupid fucking questions.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19097475 - 11/06/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This thread makes me think of this.



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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097500 - 11/06/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why do you hate them?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19097751 - 11/06/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why do you hate them?




I don't hate illegal immigrants who are moving from their shithole country and trying to make a life for themselves here.  I hate shithole employers who take advantage of their situation, and the fact they can't easily get visas or citizenship.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19097755 - 11/06/13 09:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
You seem to not want these undocumented folk to work.  Why do you hate them so?




Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a claim you're making, but you've offered no evidence to support the notion that illegal immigrants provide a net positive economic impact on the nation.




You know the answer.  Stop asking stupid fucking questions.





Why do you hate them, Enill?


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19099004 - 11/07/13 04:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's no room in my life for hate, bro.

I'm just wondering why you're so worked up about these guys getting paid for an honest day's work.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: Enlil]
    #19099029 - 11/07/13 04:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It is frustrating... seeing jobs taken from american ppl like myself... if I lost my job I'd be sol for a while... try to get a job at a lawn maintenance service... they tell u to fuck off if u no habla inglese... if I had to pick fruit for a living I'd starve to death cause there's a dozen guys who don't have to pay taxes who will take less money and admitted probably work harder than I would... I don't hate ppl but the corruption that goes on in this world stemmed from greed.... whatever


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: meatables]
    #19099554 - 11/07/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

meatables said:
I've been through the day labor deal personally... are talking about an actual staffing agency or random ppl without jobs looking for work?

Working through a labor agency u r still required to prove citizenship and pay taxes to a ss#.... and at min wage how can they be making the same as someone making 20/h otb?




I'm talking about the guys who hang out around the train station or the Home Depot or even the shape up hall in Mt Kisco that is there specifically for day laborers.  They even have English classes for the ones that don't get picked on any given day.

I already went through how they get the rough equivalent of a $20hr gross paycheck.


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19101677 - 11/07/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ah yes I'm familiar with this type of place... and I agree wholeheartedly that immigrant labor surely drives corruption in the lower working class.... must be nice to avoid taxes.... I pull usually 15 hrs overtime every week which pretty much covers my taxes for said week so I end up making my flat rate minus the ot.. which sucks cause I know I'm not getting a whole lotta that money back... and I still think if the migrant (illegal) workers were to be taken out of the scenario we have more than enough unemployed americans to cover those jobs... its unfortunate that a corrupt few muck shit up for the rest of us


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: meatables]
    #19101978 - 11/07/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

meatables said:
Ah yes I'm familiar with this type of place... and I agree wholeheartedly that immigrant labor surely drives corruption in the lower working class.... must be nice to avoid taxes.... I pull usually 15 hrs overtime every week which pretty much covers my taxes for said week so I end up making my flat rate minus the ot.. which sucks cause I know I'm not getting a whole lotta that money back... and I still think if the migrant (illegal) workers were to be taken out of the scenario we have more than enough unemployed americans to cover those jobs... its unfortunate that a corrupt few muck shit up for the rest of us




Yes we do.  And quite a few of the improperly admitted to college who could use those starting out jobs to gain work experience and a work ethic


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Re: Children are luxury goods [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19103737 - 11/08/13 01:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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