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jackSpearows
ShaRooooms !!!



Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 198
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Is certainty a disguise ?
#19078038 - 11/03/13 12:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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What I mean by this is when we are sure of something are we not really full of BS ?
Obviously we scientifically can be certain, for the most part. But where do you draw a line between notions that can be genuinely deemed certain and notions that are more or less "subjective"... I write about this because I'm thinking that I am becoming certain about fewer and fewer things. John Lilly is looking accurate in his quote about the mind.
"In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended." -lilly
That basically sums up what we are calling science. Also describes the flow of life through time and space well. What its like to experience it I mean.
But being an individual and living with this sort of process goes far beyond the discovery of gravity and what so and so are discovering in a lab in Germany or stuff like that. There's a personal quest going on within me now. My life. And its a tricky son of bitch.
... Okay so its like the NOW sets the rules. Here this out. The timing and spacing dictate to yourself the degree of certainty you may have with various notions. About yourself, others, events whatever. Are we not a slave to this moment at least to some extent ?
You could take that further. This present moment, whenever it is, is like the collective psyche. Its what gives us common ground. Right now we can share that and both relate to it. Because Lord knows we couldn't otherwise . My intensity is fading Im out
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Nothing is ultimately certain unless you created all this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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jackSpearows
ShaRooooms !!!



Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 198
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Is certainty a disguise ? [Re: Icelander]
#19079980 - 11/03/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Agreed. Going to jump around here. What I find trickiest about this is the phenomennom where one you can have a thought/feeling complex about a subject and its flavored a specific way. Then the very next day you can have a thought/feeling complex on the very same subject but its very different. If anything has led me astray and gets me confused its this notion.
When I lay down and really focus on what is happening here it seems I realize that there's an origination to these complexes. Like whenever the mind applies itself it is ALWAYS expressed with a slant. I had a good thought earlier when I was investigating this and it was something like ... Can't remember it dammit. Anyways I'm curious about the origination of these thought/feeling complexes. It's so easy to see how we operate in this regard. Something gives us a thought accompanied with an emotion and then may or may not take action it. Thing is is that it's not our conscious will. We are baited and lured into various things.
But a lot of times there's no consistency! And to develop a self philosophy for living becomes pointless. Other than saying its pretty much improv. Then a few days later you will find yourself in a mind/emotional state where a certain philosophy is working for you and it makes sense. Contradiction. You are always at its mercy this experience. (Then again you may not be). It goes back to when I was talking about time. The general present is the truth really whether it seems like bs or not isn't really what matters. Why? Because its all we can be given.
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Yeah, I'd agree that it's a disguise to make us feel better, like we know something. It think it's an attempt to ground a "self" into the universe -- to stand firmly on ground and say, "I know this." But, so far, I'm convinced, and think that it's impossible for us to do so in a groundless universe. Like you mentioned in your OP, I think science a great attempt to do that. It tries to say, "We know something." and operates on the faith that there's more to know than we already know.
What I find really interesting about these illusions/disguises, is that they're endless. As the saying goes in Buddhism, delusions are inexhaustible. As soon as I break out of one box or illusion, I find myself convinced of another illusion or inside another box. In the past month or so, I've been a bit occupied with the question of, how can we live in an illusion/disguise while knowing it's an illusion and a disguise, and yet at the same time, convincing ourselves that it isn't an illusion and fully living up to it? How can we create higher illusions knowing that they're illusions? I think that's one of the hardest parts.
And even the question I just posed is an example of your OP. I feel like I'm certain that this is an issue, only because it seems to satisfy part of my psyche. It lets me feel that there's a "self" in me that can stand on firm ground and say I know something for certain... like there's a problem like this.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is certainty a disguise ? [Re: r72rock]
#19080392 - 11/03/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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As my old drinking buddies used as a chant.
"Once you're in you can't get out"
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,759
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Re: Is certainty a disguise ? [Re: Icelander]
#19084164 - 11/04/13 04:27 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:

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Stinkmeaner
pariah


Registered: 01/21/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Denmark
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Life has an unfathomable depth not fully accessable by our five senses - we reside at the tip of the iceberg, so in that regard, full certanity seems like non-sense.
We can be certain about the iceberg however - how it looks, how it feels, how it tastes, how it smells, how it sound. We can have conceptions about its nature and governing principles, but from a ranged perspective; I wouldn't call that full certanity.
Certanity seems like such an abstract conception to me... I'd rather call it a deeply faithed hypothesis. One can feel certain, without neccesary be certain, you know what im saying?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,759
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Re: Is certainty a disguise ? [Re: Stinkmeaner]
#19085045 - 11/04/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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it is a preponderance of resonance:
when many issues or images seem to line up a sense of relative certainty results. One feels little need to investigate any further.
this flaw is used to convince people or dupe them into compliant behavior. it is the fundamental trick of advertising.
provide images and ideas that line up amazingly well and you can rely on the unquestioned certainty of your mark(et)
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