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Ythan
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Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief
#19079071 - 11/03/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief rawstory.com
A South Carolina police chief threatened a resident with possible arrest Thursday for making pro-legalization comments about marijuana in a Facebook post about a drug suspect’s arrest.
Interim Police Chief Ruben Santiago announced on the Facebook page for the Columbia Police Department that officers had seized about $40,000 in marijuana from an apartment during a drug investigation.
But at least one person who follows the department’s social media page was less than thrilled, reported blogger Ken White at Popehat.
The blog posted a screen capture of a comment made by Facebook user Brandon Whitmer, who said, “maybe (police) should arrest the people shooting people in 5 points instead of worrying about a stoner that’s not bothering anyone. It’ll be legal here one day anyway.”
Someone with login credentials for the Columbia Police Department replied to Whitmer, saying, “(W)e have arrested all of the violent offenders in Five points. Thank you for sharing your views and giving us reasonable suspicion to believe you might be a criminal, we will work on finding you.”
That post was quickly deleted, the blog reported, but it was saved via screen capture by multiple Facebook users.
The department’s interim chief then identified himself in a follow-up comment made using the department’s account and said he’d made the post threatening Whitmer with possible arrest and blamed a subordinate for deleting it.
“I put everyone on notice that if you advocate for the use of illegal substances in the City of Columbia then it’s reasonable to believe that you MIGHT also be involved in that particular activity, threat?” the chief said in his comment. “Why would someone feel threaten if you are not doing anything wrong? Apply the same concept to gang activity or gang members. You can have gang tattoos and advocate that life style, but that only makes me suspicious of them, I can’t do anything until they commit a crime. So feel free to express yourself, and I will continue to express myself and what we stand for. I am always open to hearing how our citizens feel like we can be effective in fighting crime.”
The department’s public information officer confirmed to White that the interim chief wrote both posts but said Santiago’s point may have been misunderstood.
“Chief was trying to say that he puts would-be-criminals on notice — if you commit a crime or plan to commit one, CPD will work hard to investigate and press charges according to the law,” said department spokeswoman Jennifer Timmons. “It’s easy for social media posts to be misunderstood. The man who was so-called threatened openly admitted that he was not offended and appreciated the work of CPD.”
Timmons told The Raw Story that Whitmer made his comments in a subsequent Facebook post, but all of his comments in that thread, including the original post, have since been deleted.
The public information officer also said Friday afternoon that Santiago had contacted Whitner personally about his comments, which Timmons said were not intended to be malicious or offensive.
Timmons also noted that Santiago started the Facebook page and interacts with commenters to engage the public and to help educate them on police matters.
Santiago filed a defamation suit in July against a police captain who accused him of plotting to plant illegal drugs and a stolen weapon inside a top city official’s vehicle.
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Simplepowa
In Pursuit of Knowledge


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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Ythan] 1
#19079087 - 11/03/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's not even OK to have an opinion anymore it seems.
Anyway in the eyes of the popo everyone is suspicious of doing something wrong, quite annoying.

Their mentally should be something else completely imo
--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people." --- Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." --- Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."
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trampis
mad hatter


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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Simplepowa] 5
#19079201 - 11/03/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I looked up the police chiefs facebook and saw that he likes the game Mafia Wars. He should immediately be placed under investigation. It's reasonable to suspect he may be in cahoots with the mafia.
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Constantine
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)



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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Simplepowa] 3
#19079239 - 11/03/13 08:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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--------------------
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dark3st
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Constantine] 1
#19079303 - 11/03/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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damn idk I'd clean the fuck out of my house immediately just incase he got the pig but hurt overflow it.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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LSDreams
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: dark3st] 1
#19079563 - 11/03/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I see dunkin donut eating pigs have nothing better to do than sit on their computer and fuck with people.
Dudes comment wasnt even absurd.. like on any level. Whats wrong with this world??
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Ythan] 2
#19079574 - 11/03/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ythan said: Someone with login credentials for the Columbia Police Department replied to Whitmer, saying, “(W)e have arrested all of the violent offenders in Five points. Thank you for sharing your views and giving us reasonable suspicion to believe you might be a criminal, we will work on finding you.”
That post was quickly deleted, the blog reported, but it was saved via screen capture by multiple Facebook users.
And thank god someone captured it. Sounds like this stupid fucking pig needs a re-education in the constitution and a citizen's rights. Perhaps I should say "education" since it sounds like he may have never learned this in the first place.
I honestly believe he should be reprimanded for this, at the least.
No, officer dumbfuck, exercising one's first amendment right to free speech does not now, nor has it ever constituted as "reasonable suspicion." Particularly not when it has to do with speaking out against laws one disagrees with. That is a necessary part of the democratic process, without which we'd never be able to change any laws.
Of course, this dumb fuck who obviously doesn't give a wet fart about the constitution, or citizens' rights will probably get away with this. Because they usually do.
Quote:
“I put everyone on notice that if you advocate for the use of illegal substances in the City of Columbia then it’s reasonable to believe that you MIGHT also be involved in that particular activity, threat?” the chief said in his comment. “Why would someone feel threaten if you are not doing anything wrong? Apply the same concept to gang activity or gang members. You can have gang tattoos and advocate that life style, but that only makes me suspicious of them, I can’t do anything until they commit a crime. So feel free to express yourself, and I will continue to express myself and what we stand for. I am always open to hearing how our citizens feel like we can be effective in fighting crime.”
Sounds to me like someone on a legal team, or someone a little higher up, or simply someone who doesn't have their head so far up their fucking ass they can lick their own stomach told officer badass here that he was treading into unconstitutional waters, so he amended his statement.
Of course... he obviously wasn't saying he would begin an illegal, unconstitutional investigation into a citizen simply because they exercised their right to free speech.... clearly he's not that stupid. See? He even acknowledges you have to commit a crime first. 
What officer inbred here fails to realize, is that simply because one does not advocate a massively socially harmful war on this country's own citizens (aka "the war on drugs") over non-violent, victimless crimes, does not mean that they, themselves, are a drug user. And guess what, officer not-too-bright? Even if they are, expressing such an opinion does not give you legal grounds to investigate them.
Any lawyer worth half a fuck could get that case thrown out faster than you can say "Early retirement." And if he was anything like me, by the time his lawyers got done with you, your department would be so goddamned broke the cops would have to wear extra heavy coats for body armor and just pray the criminals switch to pellet guns.
Quote:
The department’s public information officer confirmed to White that the interim chief wrote both posts but said Santiago’s point may have been misunderstood.
“Chief was trying to say that he puts would-be-criminals on notice — if you commit a crime or plan to commit one, CPD will work hard to investigate and press charges according to the law,” said department spokeswoman Jennifer Timmons. “It’s easy for social media posts to be misunderstood. The man who was so-called threatened openly admitted that he was not offended and appreciated the work of CPD.”
Um.... incorrect. Nice try though.
The chief's words and meaning were crystal clear. He was so goddamned stupid, and has been so long used to doing whatever the fuck he wants (outside of the public's view) that he forgot for a hot minute who and where the fuck he was, and just what he was saying.
It is very clear he was talking about illegally investigating a man for publically stating a political opinion.
And that level of stupidity and incompetence should NOT be tolerated among our police.
Period.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: CidneyIndole] 1
#19079668 - 11/03/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would say what I think they should do with this officer, but apparently that would imply that I'm involved with criminal activity
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Morel Guy
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: JacksonMetaller]
#19079735 - 11/03/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sounds like politics as usual. Protest something you feel is worth political activity, and the man's got a beef.
-------------------- "in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur" In filth it will be found in dung it will be found
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Chuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Morel Guy] 1
#19080019 - 11/03/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My fantasy world is one in which police cannot just get away with what ever they want.
I wonder if there is any place left in the world where you could post up a little shack, and just shoot/catch your dinner, without the threat of some d-bag cop arresting you on a technicality cause he doesn't like the color of your hair
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JMooreOnYoutube
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Chuckfinely]
#19080234 - 11/03/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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idk, i like somethings about the 5-0(especially the ones in legal states) but they have gone to far in this one
-------------------- next on the list to try is: ------------------------ All you need is love WWJD
Edited by JMooreOnYoutube (11/03/13 12:57 PM)
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LSDreams
Contemplative Stoner



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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: JMooreOnYoutube] 1
#19080247 - 11/03/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMooreOnYoutube said:
idk, i like somethings about the 5-0 but they have gone to far in this one
How could you possibly like anything they do? Theyre soposed to protect ppl from hurting other ppl, and that doesnt even take place anymore. So I have no respect for them.
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JMooreOnYoutube
Captain Reefer


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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: LSDreams]
#19081419 - 11/03/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
How could you possibly like anything they do? Theyre soposed to protect ppl from hurting other ppl, and that doesnt even take place anymore. So I have no respect for them.
not all are corrupt bastards trying to put the little man down, some are quite chill, if they find less than an ounce they will let you go, mostly near legal states but just because some are bad doesnt mean lose all faith in our protectors, im still going to avoid the fuzz but i trust them with my life.
-------------------- next on the list to try is: ------------------------ All you need is love WWJD
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: JMooreOnYoutube]
#19081556 - 11/03/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JMooreOnYoutube said:
not all are corrupt bastards trying to put the little man down, some are quite chill, if they find less than an ounce they will let you go, mostly near legal states but just because some are bad doesnt mean lose all faith in our protectors, im still going to avoid the fuzz but i trust them with my life.
And those same chill cops will defend and stick up for their bully cop buddies and back up their bullshit stories.
I've never heard of a cop letting anybody go after finding weed. I imagine those cops are few and far between.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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LSDreams
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: lowbrow]
#19081695 - 11/03/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Chuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: LSDreams]
#19081741 - 11/03/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I got an ouid charge in a legal state because the cop got all butt hurt that I had a card and wasn't drunk.
Took my 8th, arrested me, got a warrant for my blood, then 8 months later i randomly have a bench warrant out. Allegedly I failed my sobriety test because my foot wasn't a full 6" off the ground, and I stuttered on the "x,y,z" part cause it was like 30 degrees outside and i was nervous as hell.
Ill stop wishing death upon all pigs the day they only arrest violent offenders I was on the path to being a pharmacist until a d-bag cop decided it was appropriate to end all my hopes and dreams because of a roach when I was 17
Edited by Chuckfinely (11/03/13 06:09 PM)
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JMooreOnYoutube
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Chuckfinely]
#19081772 - 11/03/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im sorry, I DIDNT KNOW.......i didnt know
-------------------- next on the list to try is: ------------------------ All you need is love WWJD
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SuperD
Cacti junky


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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: lowbrow]
#19082089 - 11/03/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
JMooreOnYoutube said:
not all are corrupt bastards trying to put the little man down, some are quite chill, if they find less than an ounce they will let you go, mostly near legal states but just because some are bad doesnt mean lose all faith in our protectors, im still going to avoid the fuzz but i trust them with my life.
And those same chill cops will defend and stick up for their bully cop buddies and back up their bullshit stories.
I've never heard of a cop letting anybody go after finding weed. I imagine those cops are few and far between.
I've been let go twice after the cops found weed on me. These incidents occurred over 10 years ago but keep in mind I live in Texas. There are some very cool cops out there among all the assholes.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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Uzziel
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: SuperD]
#19082096 - 11/03/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wow thats fucked for speaking your mind you get a cop threatening you.
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JMooreOnYoutube
Captain Reefer


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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Uzziel]
#19082181 - 11/03/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I've been let go twice after the cops found weed on me. These incidents occurred over 10 years ago but keep in mind I live in Texas. There are some very cool cops out there among all the assholes.
thank you, finally someone knows they arnt all douches, but there still are alot of asshole cops out there
-------------------- next on the list to try is: ------------------------ All you need is love WWJD
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GreenGrassMatt
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: JMooreOnYoutube]
#19083658 - 11/04/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is against what America stands for. You can't go after someone who just made a comment. What is this the Middle East now? That cop can go suck my white dick. Fuck you dumb ass piggy.
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mukhail
Creeper

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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: GreenGrassMatt] 1
#19084229 - 11/04/13 05:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im gonna go spam their facebook
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Sheekle
FREE BURKE



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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: mukhail]
#19084704 - 11/04/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods "I hope JSB kicks your ass one day." - Vandago "you are the biggest 'internet guy' I have ever come across"- Jokeshopbeard "The more I see you post the more I realize you're just this fuckin tie dye loser who trolls the Shroomery 24/7." - Herbologist "Sheekle you cannot vile the dice of bullshit you have posted on this forum over the years, I like databases" - thelastoneleft "or maybe i just come from a blood line of superior intelligence" - trees R.I.P Kelsy, ?/?/?? - 6/11/16
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overstand
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: mukhail]
#19084708 - 11/04/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I noticed that the pig did not respond to the part of comment that said marijuana going to be legal soon anyway. This pig has to know that the war on cannabis is almost over and he just wants to destroy as many lives as he can.
-------------------- “Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.” - Henry David Thoreau
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lowbrow
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: overstand]
#19085043 - 11/04/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The funny thing is that the comment in no way implied that the commenter smokes marijuana, it just stated an opinion on the police force and their waste of resources on piddly shit.
If anything, that cop can be sued for false accusations and slander. But that's probably not going to happen.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: lowbrow]
#19085049 - 11/04/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The way I see it, both parties in this dispute were exercising their right to free speech.
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SuperD
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19085375 - 11/04/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thank you for sharing your views and giving us reasonable suspicion to believe you might be a criminal, we will work on finding you.
It might still be considered free speech but that last part of the quote sure does sound ominous. I can imagine police resources being wasted if the roles were reversed and it was an ordinary citizen threatening a cop that s/he would work on finding them. They really should have omitted the last part of that statement before posting it online.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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JB76
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19085433 - 11/04/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The citizen was obviously engaging in free speech. He was advocating for better allocation of police resources as well as changes to the law. The First Amendment was written for exactly this kind of speech, and even the dumbest judge in South Carolina would have to agree. No speech is more protected than political speech.
Which is why the semi-literate police chief was in the wrong. As a public official, he has no business threatening someone with investigation or arrest for desiring changes in public policy. He has a First Amendment right as a private citizen to say it, but he should very obviously be fired for doing so as a public official with powers far beyond that of an average citizen.
I can say the police should arrest you for wanting changes to the law. But a police chief can't say he's going to do it, as that chills your right to free speech.
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egodeathflux
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Ythan]
#19088956 - 11/05/13 08:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: "..o'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave.."
Makes 'Murrca look bad, why on earth would they "work on finding" him? Sounds like a bad-natured jackass on a power trip to me.
-------------------- "Atrophic interludes weave through my life far too often, for me to fight the biggest enemies" "Standing on the corner of 5th and Vermouth"
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CidneyIndole
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 1
#19089499 - 11/05/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: The way I see it, both parties in this dispute were exercising their right to free speech.
Incorrect. The cop was clearly threatening an illegal investigation (and therefore harassment) of a citizen for exercising his constitutional right to free speech. Some might even say that harassment by police could contain elements of violence. Arrest / imprisonment is certainly a somewhat violent act. So this does potentially become a threat to violence. Being the target of an investigation, especially a frivolous one that could be seen as harassment, is certainly an intimidating thing. And I suggest it was meant to be intimidating. Which is completely improper, especially when aimed at one particular citizen who has neither been convicted, nor charged with a crime. Had the cop made a general statement ("And I put all drug criminals on notice that we will not tolerate...") that would have been legal, and perfectly acceptable, if not stupid, short-sighted, and all kinds of other petty stuff.
Further, aside from the fact that this was potential threat of violence, and was certainly designed to intimidate a particular citizen, there are other issues / elements to this case.
This guy was not speaking as a private citizen. He was speaking from a position of authority, from an official police account. And just like a prisoner gives up some of their rights, or (better yet) a soldier gives up some of their rights, so does a cop. At least while they are on the job, on the clock, or working in some official capacity.
For example, an on-duty cop pulling over a woman and making lewd sexual remarks. Were he a civilian in a casual encounter, lewd remarks would be legal (up to a point.) But during a traffic stop, even a "nice tits" from the cop would make him way, way way in the wrong, and liable for disciplinary action.
Likewise, an on-duty cop, or a cop acting in an official capacity does not have 100% right to free speech in the same way as a citizen. And such a statement as he made is harassment, intimidation, and a clear violation of that citizen's rights, peace of mind, safety, as well as intimidation as retaliation for exercising his constitutional right to free speech as a citizen.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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GrimTroll
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Uzziel]
#19092700 - 11/05/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uzziel said: Wow thats fucked for speaking your mind you get a cop threatening you.
Imagine that!
-------------------- Now pick me up night and whirlwind and let me ride with you to peace of mind and nothing to rebel...
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Magick
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: GrimTroll]
#19093082 - 11/05/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Cops are necessary. Nobody likes the idea of being charged or arrested for anything, but without somebody to enforce the law, there would be absolute chaos, in a very violent and gruesome way.
The police shouldn't harass and arrest people for simple drug possession (especially for drugs like marijuana), but that isn't a problem with our police - it's a problem with our policy!
That being said, many cops make it their goal to stomp out nonviolent drug offenders, over more important and pressing issues - whatever the reason. That's not right. An officer should definitely be looking to reduce violence and crime that hurts one another. It's like ignoring a murder call to catch a speeder - which I'm sure many cops would do.
However, this officer did step out of line by threatening arrest for posting a political opinion.
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dark3st
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Magick]
#19093173 - 11/05/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magick said: Cops are necessary. Nobody likes the idea of being charged or arrested for anything, but without somebody to enforce the law, there would be absolute chaos, in a very violent and gruesome way.
The police shouldn't harass and arrest people for simple drug possession (especially for drugs like marijuana), but that isn't a problem with our police - it's a problem with our policy!
That being said, many cops make it their goal to stomp out nonviolent drug offenders, over more important and pressing issues - whatever the reason. That's not right. An officer should definitely be looking to reduce violence and crime that hurts one another. It's like ignoring a murder call to catch a speeder - which I'm sure many cops would do.
However, this officer did step out of line by threatening arrest for posting a political opinion.
That's such bullshit. People have been shown to self govern themselves in absence of a referee. Its not like all a sudden morals and good will automatically disappear if cops just vanished.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: dark3st]
#19094041 - 11/06/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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dark3st said:
Quote:
Magick said: Cops are necessary. Nobody likes the idea of being charged or arrested for anything, but without somebody to enforce the law, there would be absolute chaos, in a very violent and gruesome way.
The police shouldn't harass and arrest people for simple drug possession (especially for drugs like marijuana), but that isn't a problem with our police - it's a problem with our policy!
That being said, many cops make it their goal to stomp out nonviolent drug offenders, over more important and pressing issues - whatever the reason. That's not right. An officer should definitely be looking to reduce violence and crime that hurts one another. It's like ignoring a murder call to catch a speeder - which I'm sure many cops would do.
However, this officer did step out of line by threatening arrest for posting a political opinion.
That's such bullshit. People have been shown to self govern themselves in absence of a referee. Its not like all a sudden morals and good will automatically disappear if cops just vanished.
They may not "magically" disappear, but they would surely "rapidly" disappear.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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dark3st
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#19094161 - 11/06/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, I doubt it.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: CidneyIndole]
#19094348 - 11/06/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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CidneyIndole said:
Incorrect. The cop was clearly threatening an illegal investigation (and therefore harassment) of a citizen for exercising his constitutional right to free speech.
What law says they can‘t do that?
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CidneyIndole
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19094649 - 11/06/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms said:
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dark3st said:
That's such bullshit. People have been shown to self govern themselves in absence of a referee. Its not like all a sudden morals and good will automatically disappear if cops just vanished.
They may not "magically" disappear, but they would surely "rapidly" disappear.
Hey, maybe you're not out there right now raping and pillaging away because it's illegal, and there are cops, and you are afraid of them.... but I believe many of us are not doing that kind of stuff because it's not in our nature, and we're decent people who want to mind our own business and get along.
Sure, sometimes I want to smack someone. No, the law is usually not what stops me from doing so.
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Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said:
Incorrect. The cop was clearly threatening an illegal investigation (and therefore harassment) of a citizen for exercising his constitutional right to free speech.
What law says they can‘t do that?
What law says the cops can't make illegal threats against citizens, while on duty, and/or falsely investigate them, and harass them in retaliation for exercising their first amendment right? Is that really what you're asking me?
Well, if the first amendment means a wet squat other than just ink on paper, than the first amendment does, for one. However, I just took quite a lot of time to explain my position and reasoning. How about you tell me which law says they can do that?
(And don't say the first amendment-- we already addressed that.)
Sure, the cops can just make any threats they want, against anyone. Especially while on the job. And that's 100% legal and not wrong at all. No law against that. Just like they can sit parked outside your house every single night for three years, and follow you everywhere you go, and put up posters of you in you community with your picture, that say: "Really Bad Man. Not Under Arrest, but Under Investigation-- Look Out!" And throw eggs at you, and rape your mother, and burn your house down, and shit on the corpses of your children after they burn to death.
  
Honestly, the way you write, I bet you do think cops can legally do all that stuff. Or should be able to. But they can't. Doing any of those things would violate numerous laws and personal rights, except for the investigation one IF and ONLY IF they had valid reason to be investigating. The cops can not frivolously follow you around, just because they don't like you or what you stand for.
Why don't you look it up? Better yet-- shoot an email off the the ACLU and see what they have to say about it.
Do you actually read the shit you write sometimes, Alan, or bother thinking about it at all? Because honestly, it really does not seem that way, sometimes.
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: CidneyIndole]
#19094673 - 11/06/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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CidneyIndole said: but I believe many of us are not doing that kind of stuff because it's not in our nature, and we're decent people who want to mind our own business and get along.
Correct. Many of us are not, for the reasons quoted.
That won't stop those who aren't decent people. Without a police force, those wanting to do right will be faced with 2 choices. Be the bitch of the baddies, or create a police force.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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JB76
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19094676 - 11/06/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said:
Incorrect. The cop was clearly threatening an illegal investigation (and therefore harassment) of a citizen for exercising his constitutional right to free speech.
What law says they can‘t do that?
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
The legal machinery of the state cannot be used to inhibit lawful political speech.
This is pretty basic, and not at all a gray area.
Just imagine a police chief who issued a press release announcing that his department will be investigating all citizens who campaign for Barack Obama, or who promote a state initiative to legalize gay marriage.
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19095023 - 11/06/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And here's a great question I forgot to include in my last post:
If you think what this cop did was so right then tell me.... why did he go back and very quickly erase the message?
Y'know... if he was in the right, and perfectly legal, and simply exercising his free speech to state his opinion? Why in the world would he go back very quickly and delete something he said, under such circumstances? It's almost as if he suddenly realized he did something very, very stupid.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
CidneyIndole said: but I believe many of us are not doing that kind of stuff because it's not in our nature, and we're decent people who want to mind our own business and get along.
Correct. Many of us are not, for the reasons quoted.
That won't stop those who aren't decent people. Without a police force, those wanting to do right will be faced with 2 choices. Be the bitch of the baddies, or create a police force.
I hear what you're saying. And I'm not trying to argue that we need zero government, or don't need cops or whatever. Just clearing up a common misconception.
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: dark3st]
#19095453 - 11/06/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
dark3st said:
Quote:
Magick said: Cops are necessary. Nobody likes the idea of being charged or arrested for anything, but without somebody to enforce the law, there would be absolute chaos, in a very violent and gruesome way.
The police shouldn't harass and arrest people for simple drug possession (especially for drugs like marijuana), but that isn't a problem with our police - it's a problem with our policy!
That being said, many cops make it their goal to stomp out nonviolent drug offenders, over more important and pressing issues - whatever the reason. That's not right. An officer should definitely be looking to reduce violence and crime that hurts one another. It's like ignoring a murder call to catch a speeder - which I'm sure many cops would do.
However, this officer did step out of line by threatening arrest for posting a political opinion.
That's such bullshit. People have been shown to self govern themselves in absence of a referee. Its not like all a sudden morals and good will automatically disappear if cops just vanished.
i lean towards your way of looking at it. but say drugs were legal, and thus there is less of a police presence in the neighborhoods where illegal drug trafficking runs rampant.
without the drug dealing and such that goes along with it, where would these people get money to eat?
i have bought drugs from blacks under 15 years old PLENTY of times. dealing drugs is what our government wanted when they built public housing and such for them. they have kept the black man down since he was "freed".
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: JB76]
#19097901 - 11/06/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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CidneyIndole said: What law says the cops can't make illegal threats against citizens, while on duty, and/or falsely investigate them, and harass them in retaliation for exercising their first amendment right? Is that really what you're asking me?
Yes, that is precisely my question.
I am not aware of any law that makes what the cops said illegal. Since you seem to think what they said was illegal, I wonder what law you had in mind that would cover their actions?
Quote:
Well, if the first amendment means a wet squat other than just ink on paper, than the first amendment does, for one.
I have read the first amendment and it does not say that the cops can't threaten to arrest you for drugs.
Quote:
However, I just took quite a lot of time to explain my position and reasoning. How about you tell me which law says they can do that?
Laws don't give us rights - We can do whatever we want unless there is a law against it.
Quote:
(And don't say the first amendment-- we already addressed that.)
I would argue that the first amendment gives the cops the right to say whatever they want. It does not let the cops do whatever they want, but I believe that it protects their speech. Even very unpopular speech, as is the subject of this conversation.
Quote:
Sure, the cops can just make any threats they want, against anyone.
I wish there was a law against this.....However I do not believe that there is.
If the cop wrote "if you smoke dope I will come and break your legs", that would be illegal.
But what he basically said is "if you smoke dope I will come and arrest you".
If there is any law that this violates, I would like to know about it. Because I would use it against the cops every chance I get.
Unfortunately that law does not seem to exist....
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Why don't you look it up? Better yet-- shoot an email off the the ACLU and see what they have to say about it.
I have looked it up and I could not find any law that the post violated.
Quote:
Do you actually read the shit you write sometimes, Alan, or bother thinking about it at all? Because honestly, it really does not seem that way, sometimes.
I was hoping that what they wrote was illegal, but it does not appear that we can find any law against it....so.....Perhaps their conduct was lawful?
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JB76 said: The First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
The legal machinery of the state cannot be used to inhibit lawful political speech.
This is pretty basic, and not at all a gray area.
That is totally true. If they had showed up at his door and arrested him for saying what he did, then the first amendment would absolutely protect him. But that is not what happened here.
What happened here was two people were talking shit over the internet. I don't see how any laws were broken.
Maybe there is some kind of law that restricts the speech of police??? But probably not.
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JB76
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19098542 - 11/07/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The guy on Facebook did not claim to have ever smoked pot. He said that police resources were being poorly utilized, and he predicted that pot would be legal soon.
"maybe (police) should arrest the people shooting people in 5 points instead of worrying about a stoner that’s not bothering anyone. It’ll be legal here one day anyway.”
This is squarely within the realm of political speech. When a citizen criticizes a public official, that official is not allowed to respond with, "Criticize me again and I'll sic my detectives on you." That's a gross abuse of power.
The chief isn't going to get a visit from the Justice Department over one stupid comment that he clearly regrets. But if he made a habit of threatening to use his official powers to investigate people based on their political beliefs, he would rightly be sued by the attorney general and probably forced to sign a consent decree.
When a police chief speaks about department policy, especially with regard to investigation and arrest, it's not just "speech." It's action. And the law regulates that action.
It's really pretty amazing that you don't get this, if you truly don't.
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Enlil
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Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 2
#19099003 - 11/07/13 04:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Alan Rockefeller said: The way I see it, both parties in this dispute were exercising their right to free speech.
Really? That's how you see it?
The chief of police, using the department as a screen name, said "we will work on finding you" in response to what was undoubtedly political speech. He wasn't speaking as an individual. He specifically stated what the department would be doing. He was acting as a government spokesperson threatening to "find" anyone who expressed an opinion he disagreed with.
I doubt it's enough to sue over, but I'd take that poster as a client pro bono and issue a serious warning to the PD about further action.
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Enlil
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Alan Rockefeller said: I am not aware of any law that makes what the cops said illegal. Since you seem to think what they said was illegal, I wonder what law you had in mind that would cover their actions?
"Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress" 42 U.S.C. §1983
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CidneyIndole
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19100003 - 11/07/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: The way I see it, both parties in this dispute were exercising their right to free speech.
Really? That's how you see it?
The chief of police, using the department as a screen name, said "we will work on finding you" in response to what was undoubtedly political speech. He wasn't speaking as an individual. He specifically stated what the department would be doing. He was acting as a government spokesperson threatening to "find" anyone who expressed an opinion he disagreed with.
I doubt it's enough to sue over, but I'd take that poster as a client pro bono and issue a serious warning to the PD about further action.
Thank you for interjecting your opinion. I was starting to get a bit perturbed over Alan's seeming lack of understanding. Perhaps he'll accept your professional opinion. That being said, I'm going to try one more time to clarify my reasoning and address some of the points raised.
@Alan
1- Perhaps the first amendment doesn't say "cops can't threaten people." However, the first amendment doesn't explicitly mention a lot of things that are absolutely protected, or prohibited.
2- Threatening speech is NOT protected. Again, threats are not protected free speech.
3- In exercising his speech (free and legal or not) this cop was not only threatening a citizen, but was threatening him in response to / retaliation for exercising his (the citizen's) protected right to free political speech. Because the cop's speech was threat and punishment for someone simply exercising their rights, this could be interpreted as suppression of the right to speech of a citizen.
Those rights are meaningless unless they are upheld. And if citizens can be threatened with legal action by government officials for exercising their right to free speech, then they are not truly "free" to speak, because there are punishing consequences for that speech. Therefore, not only was this cop not exercising free speech, himself, he was attempting to trample the right to free speech of a citizen, for expressing an opinion he didn't like. Do you imagine suppression of free speech by government officials is somehow legal?
4-
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Alan Rockefeller said: If the cop wrote "if you smoke dope I will come and break your legs", that would be illegal.
But what he basically said is "if you smoke dope I will come and arrest you".
My intent here is not to offend you, but honestly if you think what you said above is true, you very seriously need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. What you wrote above is not even almost an accurate paraphrasing of what this cop said. "If you smoke dope..." when did he say that? It was very clear the cop basically assumed he was a "dope smoker" because of his opinion. As though only dope-smokers could have an opinion on drug laws. And at no point did he make the threatened investigation contingent on legitimately discovered and suspected illegal activity. He didn't say "maybe we'll investigate you, if you break the law." He made clear and positive statements.
A more accurate rendering might be: "I will assume [unfairly] that you are are involved in illegal drugs because of your comment [which was merely expressing a protected political opinion]. We will be sure to investigate you [illegally] now that you've expressed your political opinion."
The parts in the brackets are, of course, my commentary. Was the cop smart enough to recognize those bracketed sections as true, he wouldn't have written this in the first place, or would have deleted it sooner, as I pointed out. Oh, and funny... I notice that you didn't address my question as to why the cop quickly went back and deleted what he said, if he was 100% in the right, to say what he did. That fact alone should have told you I'm right. But I digress....
Going back to your point here, if the cop had instead said something like this:
Quote:
I want all dope dealers and dope smokers put on notice: Regardless of what some states are doing, or political attitues in other places, Marijuana is still illegal here, we are still investigating cases, and if you are committing drug crimes, we will arrest you!
.... now if he'd said something like that, I would be agreeing with you. A comment like that would be fully protected. And if you can't see the difference between the two, I'm almost not sure what to say to you, other than you seriously need to work on your comprehension.
That puts it in the hypothetical, and doesn't address it at one person. It also specifically states "if you are involved in drug crimes." Which really, is only stating the obvious truth. Of course the police are looking for, and will bust people involved in drug crimes. While that may suck, it's perfectly legal, and perfectly legal to say.
What is NOT perfectly legal to say, is "We will investigate you, specific citizen, for drug crimes, simply because you posted a political opinion about drug laws."
I'm still waiting for your opinion as to why you think the cop went back and quickly deleted his "perfectly legal" message.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: CidneyIndole]
#19100024 - 11/07/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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CidneyIndole said: I'm still waiting for your opinion as to why you think the cop went back and quickly deleted his "perfectly legal" message.
I guess it wasn't so legal.
Thanks to the both of you!
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Enlil
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 3
#19100083 - 11/07/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The fact is, Alan, that the cop's statement wasn't a crime. It was a violation of the guy's civil rights, which is a civil claim...but without damages, that's moot.
If the cop had been talking as a citizen, he'd have been within his first amendment rights. He wasn't. He was speaking as a spokesperson for the PD. This is particularly true when he said "WE will work on finding you."
The most troublesome part of the whole thing is that the original statement was a criticism of the cops, and the response was basically, "fuck you, and thanks for giving us an excuse to fuck with you. We'll find you."
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JB76
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 1
#19100217 - 11/07/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Kudos to Alan for seeing the light.
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Magick
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: JB76]
#19103360 - 11/07/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
without the drug dealing and such that goes along with it, where would these people get money to eat?
Jobs.
Don't try and tell me people need to sell drugs to survive. There's plenty of ways to make money, and plenty of people who will help you on your way.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it now, I think drugs should be free. But then again, I also think food and such commodities necessary to live should be free. And entertainment. And knowledge. Money is absolutely worthless when everyone shares these things.
Unfortunately that's my brain running into utopia again. But people don't need to sell drugs to earn enough to live.
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Re: Pro-pot comment earns Facebook user a personalized arrest threat from South Carolina police chief [Re: Enlil]
#19105241 - 11/08/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Really? That's how you see it?
The chief of police, using the department as a screen name, said "we will work on finding you" in response to what was undoubtedly political speech. He wasn't speaking as an individual. He specifically stated what the department would be doing. He was acting as a government spokesperson threatening to "find" anyone who expressed an opinion he disagreed with.
I doubt it's enough to sue over, but I'd take that poster as a client pro bono and issue a serious warning to the PD about further action.
Agreed; the FB poster didn't directly state that he used marijuana, he said he was in favor of legalizing it, to which the chief of police responded with a direct threat of harassment ("we will work on finding you"). No one's political views should earn them police surveillance. That's pretty much the definition of a first amendment violation.
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