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Endure
The Anal Demon



Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 4,906
Loc: New York
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
#19071461 - 11/01/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yogi1 said: Cant argue with that.
Endorphines, glands, and neuro wiring do matter though is my point.
just saying, you will have more endorphins to release when quitting drugs, and doing things that benefit you and your spirit. daily things like workin out will feel better, those release endorphins, that can range into hobbies n sports. eating healthy will help build re-new your receptors... fish oil and other good fats especially. everything will feel better if you quit when your a chronic user, might take a couple of weeks.. but if your a noob user who is used to reality then things might feel better on weed, but thats the illusion of it.
You could go to real 'therapy' and re-process thoughts/emotions you have a hard time moving on from, or getting off your mind, thats gotta be similiar to neuro wiring right? most commonly people who have forms of PTSD re-process things, these people usually have another disorder though like ocd, adhd/add, depression, GAD, and usually in the midst of it, denial, drug addiction, family problems, etc...
Most people do not have a disorder/gland problem that prevents them from losing weight or from not being depressed, which is why most people who hear these problems on tv or on the computer will go to their doctor only to get sent home disorder-free. usually its because guy A through guy Y, dont know shit about calorie maintenance/cutting, but guy-z does. guys A-guy Y have a serious case of fucking around-itus
-------------------- Im only aloud to post once an hour. Because 'Sell Your Soul' doesn't like me. so if I am responding to you, that means you are above of the utmost importance
Edited by Endure (11/01/13 06:38 PM)
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
#19073601 - 11/02/13 04:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think it need be an either/or situation with pharmaceuticals vs healthy living. But without moving towards healthy living, self enhancement, and improved social life, the drugs have a limited long term effect.
The drugs may lead towards a long term solution, like a catalyst, IFF they help a person maintain some level of coping while they sort their shit out and then they get their life moving towards something better, BUT in and of themselves the drugs ought never to be seen as a cure or a solution in their own right.
Some might say its just semantics but I think it is important point because while the drugs are seen as a cure or a solution in their own right, then it kind of implies that the person need not do anything other than take the drugs. But if as a society we look at the drugs as just a bandaid in order to help some people facilitate other changes, "healing" or "learning", or whatever, then the implication is that more needs to be done than just taking the pills..
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
#19073748 - 11/02/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yogi1 said: One was caused after years of drug use, altering the psyche and one was wired at birth.
More drug use to cope with past drug use probably isn't a place to start fixing past neuron changes.
Mate you can't use "drugs" as some generic form of placeholder for EVERYTHING and expect teh convo to make sense. Does being a lonely idle pothead help with depression long term? Does a cocaine habit? Does opium? Probably not. On the other hand does a monthly peyote/aya ceremony help? IMO absolutely yes. And actually we have studies to show that it does. I haven't tried this for myself yet (wrong country to do it atm) but I highly suspect that any regular, organized, ceremony-type psychedelic tripping in a group, will go a long long way to balance you out. I don't mean drop shit alone when the fancy strikes you, I mean gather every month with such and such friends in a consistent group, go through these well designed motions (usually music, drumming, singing, etc) and benefit long term. Not at all the same as randomly dropping stuff.
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Mufungo said: I don't think it need be an either/or situation with pharmaceuticals vs healthy living. But without moving towards healthy living, self enhancement, and improved social life, the drugs have a limited long term effect.
The drugs may lead towards a long term solution, like a catalyst, IFF they help a person maintain some level of coping while they sort their shit out and then they get their life moving towards something better, BUT in and of themselves the drugs ought never to be seen as a cure or a solution in their own right.
Some might say its just semantics but I think it is important point because while the drugs are seen as a cure or a solution in their own right, then it kind of implies that the person need not do anything other than take the drugs. But if as a society we look at the drugs as just a bandaid in order to help some people facilitate other changes, "healing" or "learning", or whatever, then the implication is that more needs to be done than just taking the pills..
I agree with this. More DOES need to be done. I'd say the things mentioned in this thread (Omega 3, sunlight) what they do is they give a temporary boost of energy, that one can use for lifestyle / habit changes.
In fact now typing this stuff about tripping in a ceremony and tripping outside of it, makes me think how mindlessly people sometimes pop pills. There's no ritual to it, no awareness, no magic, no respect. Deeply religious people put amazing work an care into taking their placebo placeholders (bread, water, whatever) whereas pills that might indeed come with a cure or assistance, are just popped with no ritual at all.
If it were after me all pills, especially antidepressants, would have a formula they need to be taken with. Like take at 6 am after running a mile and while enjoying the awesome sunrise. Take only after reviewing your list of awesome awesome things you'll do when not depressed, and doing a victory dance about it. I suspect it'd work MUCH better than rolling out of bed, taking a shit, popping pills, scratching ass, yawning and falling into bed again all miserable and lazy 
I would write this shit out, then if you showed up at the doc to whine the pills ain't working, he'd be able to ask have you done this? These pills are meant to be taken outdoors after 10 min of walking in fresh air. Have you done that, like it says on the box? No? Then GTFO and do it
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Mufungo
Coming at ya


Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
#19073902 - 11/02/13 07:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Spacerific said: In fact now typing this stuff about tripping in a ceremony and tripping outside of it, makes me think how mindlessly people sometimes pop pills. There's no ritual to it, no awareness, no magic, no respect. Deeply religious people put amazing work an care into taking their placebo placeholders (bread, water, whatever) whereas pills that might indeed come with a cure or assistance, are just popped with no ritual at all.
True. Taking pills, even health supplements, all kind of fits into our fast food mentality of quick fixes. Kind of takes any potential meaningfulness out of the experience. So the question is, when I pop my multivitamin and fish oil, how might I make it a more meaningful experience through ritual and consequently more valuable one? ...perhaps expressing gratitude through some words or act, and/or making some personal sacrifice?? When I consider that, in theory it seems like a good thing but it seems a little artificial and contrived which counteracts the potential meaningfulness of the act.
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Spacerific said: If it were after me all pills, especially antidepressants, would have a formula they need to be taken with. Like take at 6 am after running a mile and while enjoying the awesome sunrise. Take only after reviewing your list of awesome awesome things you'll do when not depressed, and doing a victory dance about it. I suspect it'd work MUCH better than rolling out of bed, taking a shit, popping pills, scratching ass, yawning and falling into bed again all miserable and lazy 
I would write this shit out, then if you showed up at the doc to whine the pills ain't working, he'd be able to ask have you done this? These pills are meant to be taken outdoors after 10 min of walking in fresh air. Have you done that, like it says on the box? No? Then GTFO and do it 
That's a good idea. I reckon most doctors would love to agree with you too but I expect that most people would never do the regimen, so faced with the constant failure, I expect it would become a little disheartening to the doctors... until they create a pill that enables people to make behaviour change effortlessly, lol, but that would probably make the antidepressant and anxiolytic medications redundant.
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Mufungo]
#19073978 - 11/02/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Mufungo said:
Quote:
Spacerific said: In fact now typing this stuff about tripping in a ceremony and tripping outside of it, makes me think how mindlessly people sometimes pop pills. There's no ritual to it, no awareness, no magic, no respect. Deeply religious people put amazing work an care into taking their placebo placeholders (bread, water, whatever) whereas pills that might indeed come with a cure or assistance, are just popped with no ritual at all.
True. Taking pills, even health supplements, all kind of fits into our fast food mentality of quick fixes. Kind of takes any potential meaningfulness out of the experience. So the question is, when I pop my multivitamin and fish oil, how might I make it a more meaningful experience through ritual and consequently more valuable one? ...perhaps expressing gratitude through some words or act, and/or making some personal sacrifice?? When I consider that, in theory it seems like a good thing but it seems a little artificial and contrived which counteracts the potential meaningfulness of the act.
This is where it's actually important to get a feel for other rituals, anything that moves you. Some religions have an in-house altar, a dedicated corner, sacred space perhaps, focused on a certain idea. I've found Western space (bathroom cabinet for instance) to lack that vibe completely, as it's not in any way linked to a deity of cleanliness, health or good vibes. But it could be.
Hmm, mate you've raised a good question here, I've been playing with some feeble rituals, affirmations or practices, but none of them have been set in stone, like before eating, or before popping my Omega3 pills. Now getting into this convo, I think that I actually should make a thing of it.
Examples from other rites:
In the Eleusinian mysteries:
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Before mystai could enter the Telesterion, they would recite, "I have fasted, I have drunk the kykeon, I have taken from the kiste ("box") and after working it have put it back in the kalathos ("open basket").
Muslims say Bismillah before eating, and Anlamdulillah after.
I'm sure BUddhists and Hindus and all manner of groups have their own ways of marking moments and intentions, bringing back awareness to what teh point of it all is.
It probably feels a bit fake, unfamiliar, useless and contrived for everyone the first 10 times, but then the familiarity starts to kick in, and I imagine one slowly starts to make it their own. "Being" a proper Buddhist / Muslim / Hindu that does dedicate food/meds/anything to their sincere beliefs. It's probably a richer type of experience that dedicating nothing to nothing at all, just chewing and swallowing.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
#19074040 - 11/02/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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How about I clarify. Taking in substances that dramatically change and imbalance the chemistry of a part of your brain, and have a short duration (2-3 day even) imbalancing effect on your cns, are probably not going to help bring you the stable mind you're going for...
As for tripping every month, THAT is the bandaid. When you trip it can take a week or several months to properly integrate experiences. This is not even to mention serotonin long term deficiencies.
Aya tripping is with dmt, so, very different since its not releasing serotonin, but dmt needs respect and integration too, so to put your body through a 10 hour trip every 4 week..... What do you really expect?
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Edited by Yogi1 (11/02/13 08:33 AM)
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
#19074340 - 11/02/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I expect many things, all of them positive. Santo Daime is well spread enough that people have had a chance to observe its practitioners long term. They do have lower depression, suicide, better memory scores and other positive effects compared to say Catholics in the exact same geographical area. All things being even, having Aya in Sunday church seems to improve quite a few factors that don't seem to work too well in the US, maybe the Western world in general.
Being well integrated in a social group that has regular organized activities proven to be healthy long term, that is a bandaid? How does that work? 
It's not a "fix" for a specific problem or condition necessarily, it's a religion, it's supposed to offer regularity, familiarity, a reliable calendar of events. I am talking specifically about the Santo Daime approach here, not saying go to a Peruvian shaman or curandero every month. Indeed if we're talking curanderos, that might can expected to work without regular followup meetings (and probably does). But that's simply a medical cure, whereas SD has other roles as well, being a religious ritual as well as social gathering.
Anyway to clarify my position a bit: If and when I have any problems like depression, feeling down and such, I will trust Aya, shrooms or peyote far more than I will trust any Western approach, especially pharma pills like SSRI's or benzos. Regular trips alone may or may not help every time, but actual ceremonies make a world of difference, for me at least. It's incredibly comforting to know that yes, there is a place that works, in case I really need it.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
Edited by Spacerific (11/02/13 10:06 AM)
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
#19074379 - 11/02/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I suggest you report back because I'm sure you have many peoples attention here.
The only thing I'm arguing at all about is end all be all psychedelic medicine. I think its very unhealthy to preach that medicine to people who might not be able to utilize it, or in some cases, benefit from it.
I would have approached daime years ago if it wasn't a Christian based church. Too much paranoia of programming for me.
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Yogi1]
#19075757 - 11/02/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yogi1 said: I suggest you report back because I'm sure you have many peoples attention here.
The only thing I'm arguing at all about is end all be all psychedelic medicine. I think its very unhealthy to preach that medicine to people who might not be able to utilize it, or in some cases, benefit from it.
I would have approached daime years ago if it wasn't a Christian based church. Too much paranoia of programming for me.
Well for what it's worth, I've been there a few times and plan to go many more, and at no point have I felt the need to take the Jesus spam seriously 
When your curiosity / desire for the medicine is greater than your paranoia of programming, you'll certainly be able to go as well. I've always considered that my business is with the vision, with the plant, the church and singers in it just provide a venue. Which they did, a very good one.
I may be a bit biased (pro-Aya) since it worked pretty well for me. If others have horror stories or simply neutral results after it, I hope they post those as well. One thing I'd be very suspicious of are instances where the aya is home made, by someone who's a first timer, and also taken at home, lacking the group context.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 4,923
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Therapeutic Lifestyle Change for Depression [Re: Spacerific]
#19088086 - 11/04/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Morning Shroomery, and I'm back with an update. Holy fuck, it's been nearly a month since I started this thread. Amazing.
So update: It's 8 in the morning, my sleep schedule is back on track, after months of wasting time online at night, sleeping it off during the day and waking up at 3-4 pm. I've already prepared my Yerba Mate and while it was warming up, did my running indoors, to get my pulse up. Didn't have any breakfast, after Crystal G's recommendation to work out on an empty stomach in the morning, for extra fat burn. Not sure if a cup of Yerba Mate changes hormonal levels at all or if I'll faint from low blood sugar, but yeh, won't know until we try 
I am posting this one post then hitting the Kundalini Yoga one hour video, which I've tested yesterday morning and found completely awesome.
To some extent it might be argued that the Omega 3 is not the only thing helping me out, because I also found this new chick at the Yoga class I went to, so yeah not exactly solo here. However, the chick has been UNBELIEVABLY slow to respond, frustrating as fuck, took me like 4-5 dates to even be able to start kissing her, and to this day I get weird vibes from her, like she's not into it etc etc. Leading me to seriously consider if I'll even call her over again or anything. So in short, it's been a stressful annoying uphill battle with little fun or rewards. Last time I did anything like this I broke down like a little bitch, my thought process warped beyond all recognition. So the fact that shit still isn't working with girl, job and other topics, but I've still got the energy to actually start good exercise habits, I think a lot of that is due to large amounts of Omega 3 and spirulina in my diet, I see no other possible source for it.
Continuing to strongly recommend 1000 mg of EPA a day to anyone who's feeling even slightly off their game, let alone to all the properly depressed people that post here, cheated and let down by what society tells them leads to a good fun healthy life.
Time for Yoga, hope everybody has a nice pussylicious day and in their face 
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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