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Invisiblecez
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Death Anxiety 101
    #19071548 - 11/01/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

The other day I was tripping with a couple buddies.  One real good friend the other a good friend of my friend.
Whilst tripping, I often like to talk about death (I like thinking about it sober but don't usually bring it up..And it's thoughts that lead nowhere but whatever-I digress...

So I say something like "So what are your thoughts on death?"

Immediately my friend's friend shuts the conversation down.
He said, "I actually prefer if we didn't talk about this..And I don't want to hear you guys talk about it."

I was kinda taken back from this so I said something like "Ok so what you're just not a fan of death?"
He said, "Hell no I'm not a fan of death.  How could I be?  This is the only chance we get.  After this it's all over."

That notion seems comforting to me if I believed in that as strongly as he seemed too :shrug:
I wanted to pick his brain a bit but I felt like I would have been playing with fire so I just left it at that.

Later in the night my friend told me that guy has bad anxiety and is just in an overall bad headspace.

I feel for him in a sense and looking back on that trip I wish I did pick his brain a bit..I think talking about things you don't want to talk about can be quite therapeutic and can help in the growing/healing process of a person.

So I don't know what my argument is in this post, I suppose it was just a reminder to me how real death anxiety is for some people. 

I know I'm anxious of death but want to figure out why...Have no idea how to figure this out though, other than not giving a fuck about my future and following my intuition hoping the pieces all come together.
Others know they are anxious of death and don't want to know why.

Becker outlines and stratifies personalities and reasons why we do what we do in terms of DA, but I don't recall him stating we can overcome this fear...

Do you think we can?


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071566 - 11/01/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

" That notion seems comforting to me if I believed in that as strongly as he seemed too"


I don't understand? Please elaborate.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #19071584 - 11/01/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I view his reasoning on death as going into dreamless sleep which we do every night.

I don't know I'm sleeping.  "I" am temporarily completely gone.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071614 - 11/01/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I get that, but I get his POV, too. I make so many mistakes & its upsetting. I'm sureppl are more comforted by thinking life is a video game with infinite lives that respawn where you left off.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071620 - 11/01/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No I don't think we can.  Not completely.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071667 - 11/01/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Becker outlines and stratifies personalities and reasons why we do what we do in terms of DA, but I don't recall him stating we can overcome this fear...

Do you think we can?




According to Becker, we can't overcome it -- it's just human nature. He just said that we need new illusions to operate.

Personally though, I think we can. I think a big flaw that Becker made was not defining death anxiety further and breaking it up into a symbolic or existential DA and a creature / biological DA. I don't think I'll get rid of the instinct to fight off death, but I think we can come to accept death. Just think about it this way: symbolically, many people can contemplate death and come to terms with it. I'm thinking about it now and it doesn't neccessarily induce anxiety into me, but if a dude with a gun busted down my door and threatened to kill me, you can bet that I'd be shitting myself in anxiety.
Many do overcome the existential terrors of death, and I just think about terminally ill cancer patients. Most of them just accept that they're death is imminent, and try to make the best of what they have then. It doesn't mean that they want to die, but I think they can accept the fact that they'll die.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: r72rock]
    #19071680 - 11/01/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've often wondered about that myself.  I'm beginning to suspect that like everything else we believe and feel it may be tied in with our energy levels.  The dying and near death may not have the energy for DA in the same way the robust do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19071704 - 11/01/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Death is not something to be talked about when tripping. I mean what other thing provokes anxiety as much as the thought of "death". None. It could make some people spiral out of control with any predisposition to anxiety. My first bad trip I thought I died.. That's how most bad trips start?!?

:shrug:

I usually just try to listen to soothing music and be with people that I just love being around in general. I like to maintain normality.. If I was him I woulda said straight up bitch don't kill my vibe..


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19071717 - 11/01/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

People are adaptable. We can learn to overcome the fears as they are presented to us. DA finds other ways to manifest but it's hard to say exactly what that implies. Not everyone experiences the same level of anxiety. Nature, nurture...:shrug:

Hard to assume anything.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." β€”Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Rahz]
    #19071769 - 11/01/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

....take 30mg 2c-i then have someone bring up a conversation about death....


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Rahz]
    #19072028 - 11/01/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
People are adaptable. We can learn to overcome the fears as they are presented to us. DA finds other ways to manifest but it's hard to say exactly what that implies. Not everyone experiences the same level of anxiety. Nature, nurture...:shrug:

Hard to assume anything.




Right


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Gorlax]
    #19072103 - 11/01/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
....take 30mg 2c-i then have someone bring up a conversation about death....




I brought this up in another thread.
I'm not sure if you're saying it's a bad thing to do this?

IME it is one of the best times to think on and discuss death. Beautifully terrifying.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19058539#19058539


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19072142 - 11/01/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

MAPS seems to think you can, and I do as well.
http://www.maps.org/research/psilo-lsd/

My DA is much lesser after an NDE, much contemplation, and the logical argument that its illogical to fear death.


β€œDeath, the most frightening of bad things, is nothing to us; since when we exist death is not yet present, and when death is present, then we do not exist” -- Epicurus


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: hTx]
    #19072278 - 11/01/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'd have to agree from where I stand.

I've had the blessing and curse of being present for the deaths of people I care about, which ultimately launched me toward volunteering with hospice.

I've had several NDEs in my life, the most recent one being an ATV wreck in the Blue Mountains last year, pissed blood for a week straight.

I meditate on death daily, for atleast 15 minutes, (Ultimately much more because of how often I discuss it, think about it and see it professionally and in nature)

It takes a lot of work and strength, I do not believe I can fully overcome it, nor do I view it as some dreaded obstacle to overcome.
I do think I can say with confidence that I am more comfortable and O.k. with my death and death in general than the average population.
Contemplating and handling death in difficult psychedelic or sober situations is much easier and much more fruitful.

I've grown recently to have an appreciation for Tibetan Buddhism and its teaching to contemplate death, often.
I picked up this small book a couple months ago called Life in Relation to Death, it has all the legal framework for setting up your living will, power of attorney in serious life threatening situations, DNRs, and what to do with your remains when you die.
It's a good meditative practice with death and just a good idea in general. :thumbup:


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19072343 - 11/01/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe with your experience you can give some insight here.  Would you say some people on the edge of death are accepting and peaceful about it?  Is that abnormal if the answer is yes?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19072540 - 11/01/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"Becker outlines and stratifies personalities and reasons why we do what we do in terms of DA, but I don't recall him stating we can overcome this fear...

Do you think we can?
"
I know you can. In fact, I have been there. I went to six flags back around the end of spring, beginning of summer, and all I was smiling about on the rides were the possibility of one of them breaking and catapulting me directly into concrete and ending it right there.

I've been through some stuff in the past year or so and really, death is something I wish to happen every time I hop in my car. I'm not depressed, in fact this little action makes me smile and live life almost immediately after.

To say that it's impossible to get over Death Anxiety, to me, is stupid.

I can say that to reach it, some traumatic shit must happen first. Is it worth it to you?


--------------------
The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


Edited by Atrium (11/01/13 10:20 PM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19072579 - 11/01/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but if you have any notion of jealousy/fear/hatred towards something/etc you haven't fully gotten past DA. (According to Becker)


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19072605 - 11/01/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Give examples?

I am not a jealous person (besides of legitimately cheating women, but then who isn't?).

My one only fear was The Dark (and death). Both of which were completely eradicated through 3 rough experience trips.

And as for hatred, I'm a true christian. No hate even to someone that were to steal my money.
    -I use angry words in a comedic sense because I realize they strike nerves in people and since they mean nothing to me I can control them.


--------------------
The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19072657 - 11/01/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think Raven or Icelander (or someone else on this forum) can illustrate DA better than I.
Or check out the book "Denial Of Death"

If youre as pure as you claim then that's awesome :thumbup:


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19073084 - 11/02/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Maybe with your experience you can give some insight here.  Would you say some people on the edge of death are accepting and peaceful about it?  Is that abnormal if the answer is yes?



Absolutely, more than you'd probably think, the truth of it is they are often left with little choice but to make peace with it, and sometimes quickly. I've experienced both with people I love.

People you absolutely wouldn't expect to resist and be so scared can be... That's the hardest to see...

Very often, given the nature of how most people are dying now a days if hospice is called in, they are not conscious, either by nature or heavy drugs.

Same thing with intensive care, someone here posted an episode of frontline that I had seen in the past shortly after my dad died (much to my discomfort, given my emotional state.) of people dying in intensive care, and if you recall, most were not conscious, a couple were in absolute denial of what was happening to them.

Not all of us are going to be so blessed as to be conscious during the times of our death, which is why it is important to have the ground work laid out for what to do if that doesn't happen and we're not awake or alive to sign DNRs and all the other legal BS that comes with dying.

EDIT:
Relevant TED video titled: Dying in 21st century Australia, a new experience for all of us.


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


Edited by Raven Gnosis (11/02/13 12:39 AM)


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