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Invisiblecez
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Death Anxiety 101
    #19071548 - 11/01/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The other day I was tripping with a couple buddies.  One real good friend the other a good friend of my friend.
Whilst tripping, I often like to talk about death (I like thinking about it sober but don't usually bring it up..And it's thoughts that lead nowhere but whatever-I digress...

So I say something like "So what are your thoughts on death?"

Immediately my friend's friend shuts the conversation down.
He said, "I actually prefer if we didn't talk about this..And I don't want to hear you guys talk about it."

I was kinda taken back from this so I said something like "Ok so what you're just not a fan of death?"
He said, "Hell no I'm not a fan of death.  How could I be?  This is the only chance we get.  After this it's all over."

That notion seems comforting to me if I believed in that as strongly as he seemed too :shrug:
I wanted to pick his brain a bit but I felt like I would have been playing with fire so I just left it at that.

Later in the night my friend told me that guy has bad anxiety and is just in an overall bad headspace.

I feel for him in a sense and looking back on that trip I wish I did pick his brain a bit..I think talking about things you don't want to talk about can be quite therapeutic and can help in the growing/healing process of a person.

So I don't know what my argument is in this post, I suppose it was just a reminder to me how real death anxiety is for some people. 

I know I'm anxious of death but want to figure out why...Have no idea how to figure this out though, other than not giving a fuck about my future and following my intuition hoping the pieces all come together.
Others know they are anxious of death and don't want to know why.

Becker outlines and stratifies personalities and reasons why we do what we do in terms of DA, but I don't recall him stating we can overcome this fear...

Do you think we can?


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071566 - 11/01/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

" That notion seems comforting to me if I believed in that as strongly as he seemed too"


I don't understand? Please elaborate.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #19071584 - 11/01/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I view his reasoning on death as going into dreamless sleep which we do every night.

I don't know I'm sleeping.  "I" am temporarily completely gone.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071614 - 11/01/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I get that, but I get his POV, too. I make so many mistakes & its upsetting. I'm sureppl are more comforted by thinking life is a video game with infinite lives that respawn where you left off.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071620 - 11/01/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No I don't think we can.  Not completely.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19071667 - 11/01/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cez said:
Becker outlines and stratifies personalities and reasons why we do what we do in terms of DA, but I don't recall him stating we can overcome this fear...

Do you think we can?




According to Becker, we can't overcome it -- it's just human nature. He just said that we need new illusions to operate.

Personally though, I think we can. I think a big flaw that Becker made was not defining death anxiety further and breaking it up into a symbolic or existential DA and a creature / biological DA. I don't think I'll get rid of the instinct to fight off death, but I think we can come to accept death. Just think about it this way: symbolically, many people can contemplate death and come to terms with it. I'm thinking about it now and it doesn't neccessarily induce anxiety into me, but if a dude with a gun busted down my door and threatened to kill me, you can bet that I'd be shitting myself in anxiety.
Many do overcome the existential terrors of death, and I just think about terminally ill cancer patients. Most of them just accept that they're death is imminent, and try to make the best of what they have then. It doesn't mean that they want to die, but I think they can accept the fact that they'll die.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: r72rock]
    #19071680 - 11/01/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've often wondered about that myself.  I'm beginning to suspect that like everything else we believe and feel it may be tied in with our energy levels.  The dying and near death may not have the energy for DA in the same way the robust do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19071704 - 11/01/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Death is not something to be talked about when tripping. I mean what other thing provokes anxiety as much as the thought of "death". None. It could make some people spiral out of control with any predisposition to anxiety. My first bad trip I thought I died.. That's how most bad trips start?!?

:shrug:

I usually just try to listen to soothing music and be with people that I just love being around in general. I like to maintain normality.. If I was him I woulda said straight up bitch don't kill my vibe..


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19071717 - 11/01/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People are adaptable. We can learn to overcome the fears as they are presented to us. DA finds other ways to manifest but it's hard to say exactly what that implies. Not everyone experiences the same level of anxiety. Nature, nurture...:shrug:

Hard to assume anything.


--------------------
rahz

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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Rahz]
    #19071769 - 11/01/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

....take 30mg 2c-i then have someone bring up a conversation about death....


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Rahz]
    #19072028 - 11/01/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
People are adaptable. We can learn to overcome the fears as they are presented to us. DA finds other ways to manifest but it's hard to say exactly what that implies. Not everyone experiences the same level of anxiety. Nature, nurture...:shrug:

Hard to assume anything.




Right


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Gorlax]
    #19072103 - 11/01/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
....take 30mg 2c-i then have someone bring up a conversation about death....




I brought this up in another thread.
I'm not sure if you're saying it's a bad thing to do this?

IME it is one of the best times to think on and discuss death. Beautifully terrifying.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19058539#19058539


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19072142 - 11/01/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

MAPS seems to think you can, and I do as well.
http://www.maps.org/research/psilo-lsd/

My DA is much lesser after an NDE, much contemplation, and the logical argument that its illogical to fear death.


“Death, the most frightening of bad things, is nothing to us; since when we exist death is not yet present, and when death is present, then we do not exist” -- Epicurus


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: hTx]
    #19072278 - 11/01/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'd have to agree from where I stand.

I've had the blessing and curse of being present for the deaths of people I care about, which ultimately launched me toward volunteering with hospice.

I've had several NDEs in my life, the most recent one being an ATV wreck in the Blue Mountains last year, pissed blood for a week straight.

I meditate on death daily, for atleast 15 minutes, (Ultimately much more because of how often I discuss it, think about it and see it professionally and in nature)

It takes a lot of work and strength, I do not believe I can fully overcome it, nor do I view it as some dreaded obstacle to overcome.
I do think I can say with confidence that I am more comfortable and O.k. with my death and death in general than the average population.
Contemplating and handling death in difficult psychedelic or sober situations is much easier and much more fruitful.

I've grown recently to have an appreciation for Tibetan Buddhism and its teaching to contemplate death, often.
I picked up this small book a couple months ago called Life in Relation to Death, it has all the legal framework for setting up your living will, power of attorney in serious life threatening situations, DNRs, and what to do with your remains when you die.
It's a good meditative practice with death and just a good idea in general. :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19072343 - 11/01/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe with your experience you can give some insight here.  Would you say some people on the edge of death are accepting and peaceful about it?  Is that abnormal if the answer is yes?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19072540 - 11/01/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"Becker outlines and stratifies personalities and reasons why we do what we do in terms of DA, but I don't recall him stating we can overcome this fear...

Do you think we can?
"
I know you can. In fact, I have been there. I went to six flags back around the end of spring, beginning of summer, and all I was smiling about on the rides were the possibility of one of them breaking and catapulting me directly into concrete and ending it right there.

I've been through some stuff in the past year or so and really, death is something I wish to happen every time I hop in my car. I'm not depressed, in fact this little action makes me smile and live life almost immediately after.

To say that it's impossible to get over Death Anxiety, to me, is stupid.

I can say that to reach it, some traumatic shit must happen first. Is it worth it to you?


--------------------
The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


Edited by Atrium (11/01/13 10:20 PM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19072579 - 11/01/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but if you have any notion of jealousy/fear/hatred towards something/etc you haven't fully gotten past DA. (According to Becker)


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19072605 - 11/01/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Give examples?

I am not a jealous person (besides of legitimately cheating women, but then who isn't?).

My one only fear was The Dark (and death). Both of which were completely eradicated through 3 rough experience trips.

And as for hatred, I'm a true christian. No hate even to someone that were to steal my money.
    -I use angry words in a comedic sense because I realize they strike nerves in people and since they mean nothing to me I can control them.


--------------------
The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19072657 - 11/01/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think Raven or Icelander (or someone else on this forum) can illustrate DA better than I.
Or check out the book "Denial Of Death"

If youre as pure as you claim then that's awesome :thumbup:


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19073084 - 11/02/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Maybe with your experience you can give some insight here.  Would you say some people on the edge of death are accepting and peaceful about it?  Is that abnormal if the answer is yes?



Absolutely, more than you'd probably think, the truth of it is they are often left with little choice but to make peace with it, and sometimes quickly. I've experienced both with people I love.

People you absolutely wouldn't expect to resist and be so scared can be... That's the hardest to see...

Very often, given the nature of how most people are dying now a days if hospice is called in, they are not conscious, either by nature or heavy drugs.

Same thing with intensive care, someone here posted an episode of frontline that I had seen in the past shortly after my dad died (much to my discomfort, given my emotional state.) of people dying in intensive care, and if you recall, most were not conscious, a couple were in absolute denial of what was happening to them.

Not all of us are going to be so blessed as to be conscious during the times of our death, which is why it is important to have the ground work laid out for what to do if that doesn't happen and we're not awake or alive to sign DNRs and all the other legal BS that comes with dying.

EDIT:
Relevant TED video titled: Dying in 21st century Australia, a new experience for all of us.


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


Edited by Raven Gnosis (11/02/13 12:39 AM)


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis] * 1
    #19073479 - 11/02/13 02:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
I've grown recently to have an appreciation for Tibetan Buddhism and its teaching to contemplate death, often.
I picked up this small book a couple months ago called Life in Relation to Death, it has all the legal framework for setting up your living will, power of attorney in serious life threatening situations, DNRs, and what to do with your remains when you die.
It's a good meditative practice with death and just a good idea in general. :thumbup:




Cool lookin' book. I think I'm gunna check this out. Thanks. :thumbup:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19073488 - 11/02/13 02:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So you are convinced that these people are at peace? Not just accepting death but finally and fully at peace with death? Content, relaxed, peaceful if not joyful?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #19073563 - 11/02/13 03:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's really different with everyone.

Never seen someone joyful. I'll let you know if I ever do. :lol:
But at peace, open, clean... Yes.
Those people's transitions into death are always the smoothest and dare I say, beautiful.

I've seen the complete opposite end of the spectrum too, quite ugly and stick with you in a way you wish you could shed, like too many layers while hiking up a mountain.


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19073567 - 11/02/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'll bet.  Fear like that would be very ugly.  Especially for the one feeling it. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19073570 - 11/02/13 03:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

kind of reminds me of tripping..


--------------------
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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19073582 - 11/02/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ugh, yeah... :sad:

I think being empathetic is why it sticks with me so bad, because I am relating with them and deeply imagining feeling and going through the same thing.
Atleast it teaches me how useless responding like that is.

Although I strongly doubt I will, I just hope that if I respond like that, I have the time to work through it.

Quote:

hTx said:
kind of reminds me of tripping..



Indeed, I've found the parallels that the two seem to share uncanny. 

I feel this is why psilocybin has had success with easing the dying process of terminally ill patients.

I've felt as if and have been fully convinced that I was dying on trips before, it's no surprise that the greatest relief I felt was when I let go and just accepted, lol.
Always has been followed by a profound appreciation for living...

I've heard medicine men say things along the lines of them being tools to practice dying, it's no wonder. :crazy2:


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To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19073594 - 11/02/13 04:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think more exciting than the brain's conceptual notions of death and what it could be, is the out of body experience.

Nothing is more astonishing than remembering Who in fact You are, though.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: circastes]
    #19073624 - 11/02/13 04:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think your posts are often the poster child for DA.  At least imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19073633 - 11/02/13 04:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: cez]
    #19074072 - 11/02/13 08:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

death?

what y'all know 'bout death?


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: stzacrack]
    #19074168 - 11/02/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stzacrack said:
death?

what y'all know 'bout death?




Not enough yet.

Think you know something?
Feel free to take the mic, Sgt. Barnes. :satansmoking:



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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19074179 - 11/02/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i know you'll find out someday

if i'm lucky maybe i will too


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: stzacrack]
    #19074192 - 11/02/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Consider yourself in luck, my friend.
Ain't nothin' gunna stop your bodies capacity for cellular regeneration from failing.
We're lucky if we make it that far.


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19074200 - 11/02/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you ever go to ogreish.com when you were younger? (spelling?)

cool video


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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: stzacrack]
    #19074679 - 11/02/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross released a book called Death and Dying, and in it, she laid out these psychological stages that people go through while dying. I believe it was that book she mentioned it, I can't remember, but she talks about dying as an art, and how we can all learn to die and pass away gracefully without resistance and with courage.
I thought it was interesting when I was reading some of the comments section for this book on Amazon, and people on there were saying that this book wasn't for those who were dying, because it was telling them to "accept their death." So I guess some people can carry that denial into the end, and it just depends on the person whether or not they'll accept it and try to die peacefully.


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19074912 - 11/02/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hospice, that was involved in my path to removal of DA as well. My dad was unconcious for 3 days. All I wanted to do was ask him what to do. My brother, the day my dad was moved to hospice, either OD'd or commited suicide.

Just found it interesting you brought up hospice. I personally had no idea it was for people to die. I thought it was like any other extended hospital stay we had with him for around 10 years of cancer. What a painful realization that was on the ride home on day 3.


--------------------
The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Atrium]
    #19076226 - 11/02/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:unwanted:


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: circastes]
    #19077852 - 11/02/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I think more exciting than the brain's conceptual notions of death and what it could be, is the out of body experience.

Nothing is more astonishing than remembering Who in fact You are, though.




The other night while lying on the floor where I sleep, I found myself in this exquisite wooden house, meeting with shining colourful lights in the walls while enjoying stunning psychedelic visuals in all the wood grains. These experiences don't seem to change anything in any way at all.


Edited by usulpsychonaut (11/02/13 11:37 PM)


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19077978 - 11/02/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think for me those experiences do help when I'm drowning in my own self-pity.

I forget myself momentarily, then come back and realize none of this bullshit matters...So why do I occasionally take it so seriously?


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19077994 - 11/03/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm the experience I'm talking about isn't passive like a dream, it's the weirdest shit ever and it continually presents the same way suggesting it's another level of this reality. We have some other form in this level, it's been described as an 'energy body' and it feels pretty much like an awkward energetic version of the physical body.

What these extraordinary experiences say to me is that it's out of my hands and it's alright. Life is good, no need put it up or down, it's going to work out just do whatever pleases you.


--------------------
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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: circastes] * 1
    #19078735 - 11/03/13 03:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"just do whatever pleases you"?  The war cry of the psychopath.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: circastes]
    #19078758 - 11/03/13 03:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I cannot just do what pleases me. It just is not an option, shit never goes that way. I'll use cannabis and opiates to get me through. The best I can do now is shit in my eye. Others make out that I shit gold, don't know what's up with that really but I'm kinda leaning on them now.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19081258 - 11/03/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh.


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: circastes]
    #19087689 - 11/04/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

opiates to get you through, cannabis to get through to you.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: hTx]
    #19088655 - 11/05/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They can make a pretty good combo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19088917 - 11/05/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
They can make a pretty good combo.




I like benzos better than opiates.


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19089079 - 11/05/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

to each their own:thumbup:

I love kratom due to it's easy and safe access.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #19093858 - 11/06/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Raven Gnosis said:
Consider yourself in luck, my friend.
Ain't nothin' gunna stop your bodies capacity for cellular regeneration from failing.
We're lucky if we make it that far.




Raven, it was really good to read all of your views and experiences.
My mum used to work in a hospice as well and I have so much respect for people who do so.
Being constantly confronted with your own mortality through the death of others has transformed my mum as much as I can tell it has you.
I think moving from death denial to death anxiety in whatever form is already a huge step in the right direction.

Thanks for sharing and keep doing what you're doing, it is important in western societies where death is often ignored.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19093862 - 11/06/13 02:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19093869 - 11/06/13 02:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Also, a question for Raven:

My mum used to find that a lot of Christian hospice patients had the hardest time letting go in the face of death. Many of them were terribly afraid (convinced) they wouldn't make it into heaven!

Is this a demographical thing because the Netherlands has many protestant churches that preach hell and damnation or is it a general Christian thing?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19093877 - 11/06/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A general fundamentalist christian thing and I've seen some of that myself.  That religion is notorious for using fear to control  people. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: Icelander]
    #19093894 - 11/06/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Terrible.

It is the exact opposite of what a religion is meant to do in my opinion.

It should set people free and give them peace of mind with a promise of a hereafter, not terrify them to the point of obsession in the last bit of life they have left to live.
In my opnionon this should be a time in which they can show strength and find closure with their relatives and friends.
This strength can also mean showing sadness or even fear I think.

But just obsessively stressing out in the end of your life because you believe you will be burning eternal in hell I do not wish upon anyone.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19093901 - 11/06/13 03:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I wish that kind of thing on those that consciously use it to control others. 

I'm pretty sick of human evil, it's way too prevalent for my taste.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: Death Anxiety 101 [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19095422 - 11/06/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GoldenEye said:
Also, a question for Raven:

My mum used to find that a lot of Christian hospice patients had the hardest time letting go in the face of death. Many of them were terribly afraid (convinced) they wouldn't make it into heaven!

Is this a demographical thing because the Netherlands has many protestant churches that preach hell and damnation or is it a general Christian thing?




Thanks for the kind words, it's really been a heart callousing then expanding and humbling process. :sun:


I imagine it has a lot to do with how Christianity teaches one to be ashamed of themselves and much of their nature, let alone all their mistakes. The concept of original sin teaches us we were born filthy, unworthy sinners.

If I had been successfully indoctrinated with those ideals as a child, I'd be far more afraid of death for certain...

I'm of the belief born of experience that teaching people that their darkness is bad prevents them (and the cultural collective to which they belong) from really shedding light on it and can exacerbate the issues instead of making them conscious.


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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