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OfflinebeforeIgetold
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Registered: 10/10/13
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Last seen: 9 months, 4 days
Handling family... while psychonautinga
    #19039317 - 10/27/13 03:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quick basics:

I'm 34, steady job in the creative sector, have my own small business on the side. Have a girlfriend, she brought in a now 8 year old and we have a soon 3 year old together. Been together for almost 5 years and had our share of severe ups and downs.

I did my share of experiments during the late teens early 20s. Up till now it's only been 3-4 drags off a joint every 8-12 months or so... then it came, the article about shrooms and LSD not damaging your brain.

I secretly began researching and learning of lot of stuff in the train on my way to work.

At some point I dealt a soft blow about psychs to my girlfriend by mentioning that article to her. To which she responded "you're not going to do that are you?" sending me the blaming eye.

I told her yes, and it was something I had been wondering about for 10-12 years.

She got silently mad. Used the blame game in regards to the kids, the mentioning of the ever so slight chance of psychosis (yeah... if you are pre-dispositioned!) and so on.

Anyways, I managed to make her take a positive attitude towards my experiment by mentioning that she could risk me getting a bad one by shoving worry and condescend down over me.

The trip went fine, I had the best time ever of my life (next to having my son ofc :wink: ) and I had a great chat with my parents about my trip down memory lane (didn't mention the psychs). After I described to her what I had gotten from it, she was almost pretty positive about shrooms...

SO


At the time I said that I didn't feel a need to do them again, that I felt great, and that was true and that also made her happy.

But as the residue is residing in me, after failing to maintain or reminisce the feeling of positivity, I have a strong urge to do it again, only this time use what I have learned from last time as well as pay A LOT MORE attention to the after math than I had.
In short, I wanna go all the way.....

Now I told her I would toss out the grow kit that I had ordered, but as it arrived the potential of it grew in me. The knots are out... fruiting decently.

But that's not the only part... I don't know if its my ego or my wish to be better in life that is paying attention to it, but the last 10 days, I almost feel like she's put an effort into making me unhappy or irritated. Doing or saying things she knows I dislike.

So my other worry is not so much doing this without her knowing it, it's how the potential change in me after ego death will affect my relationship to her.

By nature she's a bit cynical (she has her own childhood issues with an absent "in the closet" alcoholic upper middle class mother, you know... everything looks fine on top, but some how she always manages to slip a glass or 3 of red wine into every cosy moment she has with guests) ... she's audio sensitive, sloppy and appalling at the practicalities of private economy.

These are things I feel like is attacking my ability to relax and enjoy life.

So naturally, while shrooms did make me more loving the last time, I don't want to throw that feeling away on account of unpleasantness.
I'm already the one who does the dishes, washes the clothes and plays actively with our son.

So how do you handle your love life? Your relationship with family and friends after psychs.

Honestly, I felt like I was supposed to go out and gospel the "truth", but know I know that is not a good idea, but I can't help feeling that they are missing out here.
I really wish she would just take that one trip...

I'm at a loss, because I'm affraid of the repercussions of leaving (society favours the mother in custody battles) but I also feel that psychs could give me that head start of changing myself that I have had such a hard time doing myself. And I really do think I need changing...

Man the ambivalence is enormous in this one :S


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: beforeIgetold]
    #19039892 - 10/27/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That fucking sucks dude but if she brings up any ultimatums I suggest you get rid of them


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Invisiblemandrax360
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Konyap]
    #19040013 - 10/27/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I understand your pain but you need to proceed with caution . I only guessing but it seems that the 2 of you have a few issues to work out , let her how you feel and explain to her why you want to take mushrooms again .Kids make relationships harder to deal with as your action effect them to , you need to ask yourself if it is really worth the hassle by growing those shrooms .

I am by no means telling you to never take shrooms again just don't grow them at home :wink:


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OfflinebeforeIgetold
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: mandrax360]
    #19040247 - 10/27/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hehe, yeah that's a good point, but I think for her the problem would already arise when I do it the 2nd time. Of course growing them myself wont make things better :laugh: But I've promised myself now (not her) that I will not be indulging in growing the stuff myself after this kit is exhausted.

So as such the kit itself is not a huge problem as I'm almost certain she won't find it in the basement.

It's just that I don't want to stop here with psychs... the rabbit hole was enticing enough to call me back to experience more. :/

Have you had your loved ones tell you "No! I don't want you to do this anymore...!"

I mean, I had no idea what it would be like, it's like day and night, once you've tried it. There's no describing it... and apparently it would seem that people who haven't tried it simply fail to understand it. They can't fathom the benefit, they only hear the myths and see that 1 in 10.000 who goes mad because they are pre-dispositioned to get psychotic :/

As for the kids. I have confidence that it wont affect them, apart from the obvious angry discussions that would arise from her finding out.
In fact, the first trip gave me some memories back from childhood that I have now begun using in my own relationship to my son (the whole you are your parents kind of issues...).
So from my point of view the kids gain from this unknowingly.


Edited by beforeIgetold (10/27/13 11:04 AM)


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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: beforeIgetold]
    #19040289 - 10/27/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Why don't you just get a door knob with a key lock on it dude, this could be a major issue come fruiting time if there are kids in the house, they're only going to get more curious


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OfflinebeforeIgetold
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Konyap]
    #19040561 - 10/27/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Apartment complex... There are 4 locked doors between then and the shrooms. Like I said this isnt about the kit... But about the whole two sides of the story thing.


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: beforeIgetold]
    #19042931 - 10/27/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I know what you mean man. I'm the kid who was told never to do these drugs. Mom never so much as smoked weed. Maybe drank a very little bit (my older cousin's just 10 years younger than her paint a very scary picture of some crazy girlfriend antics she went through) and overall, was a christian woman since the age of 20. Grandpa was an alcoholic. On both sides. Dad used to drink and smoke til about 25 when he became a christian man and a pastor, then elder. Yeah, 30+ years. Respectable.

Something within all three of his sons resonated with drugs and psychedelics in general. I remember not only the first time my brother brought up DMT but also when I could tell him about my "LSD" experience. And so, 3 sons from a conservative family who did not like drinking and I am the one left to keep this secret from my mom.

One thing I can tell you, seems the people who are "above the influence" ironically seem to not be in control of their emotions or happy unconditionally.


--------------------
The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it.

The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Atrium]
    #19043339 - 10/27/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Just stumbled upon this thread and you will probably remember me from your trip report thread and ill give you a little insight but I don't know exactly how much use it will be in your case. Anyways, here goes...I personally feel (from your post) that she is holding you back in life. You have to surround yourself with positive people to truly come together in love and spirit. If you can't raise her spirit up then it's probably already a lost cause. She might need a psychedelic experience or maybe she just needs you to actively show her the positivity that it has given you in your life. Give your 110% into your life, love and family and just show her who you're becoming. Finally, it's not her decision whether you do psychedelics or not. It's ultimately yours and if she lets that push you away from her then that is her fault. Ultimately you may be forced to hide your psychedelics use from her in case things do go south because she can use that against you in a court battle for the child. In the end you have to be the best man you can be and allow yourself time for spiritual/psychedelic endeavors but give yourself wholly to uplifting yourself within your sober life. In the end it is up to BOTH of you to maintain a healthy relationship and if that is not possible then you should not be blamed simply because you enjoy the psychedelic experience. That's like saying its your fault the relationship I hell because you like to swim. It's healthy and makes you feel better about life. You're allowed a hobby, man. The only real legitimate piece of argument that she can give is that they're illegal and could get you in trouble however that is a risk that you must take and it should be your top priority to make the risk as minimal as possible and growing is a good way to do that.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: GreySatyr]
    #19043769 - 10/28/13 01:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I have a similar situation at home.

My partner really dislikes me doing any kind of drugs. She was cool with it at first but then I took too much LSD this one time and freaked out. Nothing serious actually happened but standard bad tripping on my side and me scaring her and myself.

I never wanted to do something like that again, but six months later I was over it and started again. I do LSD or mushrooms like 5 or 6 times a year.

Now we have a kid its even worse. Since she was born 9 months ago I haven't tripped at home. Because she is so against it, home is no longer the ultimate place where I feel safe and free enough to trip. I like to trip by myself and most trips consist of lying on the couch in the dark, listening to music or wandering around town/the beach.

I give her articles to read on the subject but she wont budge and simply refuses to understand. She has never even smoked weed or been drunk. Whenever the subject comes up she gets that look and tells me something along the lines of me being to old, we having a kid or something like that.

Its not really an issue because I have done of experiencing already but I would like it to be an unladen subject. And I think I should be free to indulge in my own home now and then. Where I live mushrooms aren't illegal and even lsd is not going to get you in trouble. Small amount will be confiscated and maybe a small fine will have to be paid.

Success anyway and keep in mind that your growkit can probably give you like 500-800 grams wet. If you dry them out properly the shrooms will keep really well and you will be set for the near foreseeable future.


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19043831 - 10/28/13 01:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That sucks, I think it's extremely biased the way people view alcohol compared to shrooms, which is why I said to watch out for bluffs. In the future if you need to grow I suggest learning a tech and keeping your yields in the 7-10gram range

tbh I can't really drink to wind down, I drank a lot when I was younger but it's just kind of boring after awhile, at least with shrooms they kind of pick you up if you are alone, alcohol is just me sitting at home drying out. I guess it could relieve stress if you're with other people definitely, but you're still just doing something you could be doing together sober.


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: GreySatyr]
    #19043859 - 10/28/13 01:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

OP, sounds to me like you've found the psychs and they found you, and they're here to stay.

Same as I have. I'm a lifelong tripper. I know it. It's now a given for me. Whatever the laws of the land, I will be growing and tripping, or scheming and planning to grow and trip in the future, or to travel to lands where it's legal to trip. It's not optional, it's a given, just a matter of when, how often and how much.

Look into your heart and see if you can be comfy with the idea of never tripping ever again this lifetime, and you'll probably find a "no fucking way" message, quite firmly in place. I'm not saying you should break your family apart over this, on the contrary, if psychs talk of anything they talk of harmony and peace.

I am saying if this is who you are, then your significant other needs to slowly learn to accept that fact. You're not a crackhead, not an alcoholic, not anything negative, you're involved in one of the finest healthiest most constructive kinds of substances in existence, and if used responsibly a lot of good will come of it.

I can only tell you for now to keep it a secret, but do trip, as the shroom itself will tell you how to be more kind, more tolerant and more insightful with your lady. She'll no doubt notice the positive changes. I think it's impossible not to.

Whatever annoying issues she has, you'll be in a better position to help her with them, and harmonize better. Be consistent and steadfast in your dedication to psychs, and IMO sooner or later she will have that one trip with you, and understand.

As for me, I'm single at the moment, but also I wouldn't consider long term relationships with a non-tripper. I mean if I'm with someone for 1 year, they're around me, see the benefits and the fact that they're safe, and they still won't share that experience with me, I'll move on and that'll be that. For me, the un-psychedelic life is not worth living, and that includes the un-psychedelic relationship. It's just not up to par.

Furthermore I actually consider it quite weird. Wanting to go through life without tripping feels the same to me as wanting to die a virgin. Would I marry a girl who truly plans to do that? :lol:


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflinebeforeIgetold
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Spacerific]
    #19044533 - 10/28/13 06:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There's really a lot valuable for me in this thread...

I appreciate the reminder to use the positive feeling to let it shine on her as well. That was one thing I did notice the first 2-3 days after. That I really did try to make a difference in our a relationship.
I just wasn't paying attention to it being hard work afterwards instead of a miraculous gift.

I'm going to take a focused approach to the next experience, working harder on using the freedom shrooms can give to try and get her and me in a better alignment. She is after all the mother of my kid so there must be some kind of connection alive somewhere.

And if it starts to pay off, then I might just consider telling her and at the same time tell her that I have more or less decided that I want to enhance my life by doing this once or twice a year.

Thanks for all your advice. Even though it's hard to tell strangers what to do, I really do think that objective outsiders can offer some good ways around problems like this.


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: beforeIgetold]
    #19044567 - 10/28/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Any time, brother.


--------------------
...also, go to hell, huh?


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: GreySatyr]
    #19045943 - 10/28/13 12:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

keep in mind though that this one experience you had is really coloring your opinions at the moment.

You wont be the first that after a couple of trips, or one epic one suddenly has had enough of it and never does it again. Not saying you should not be doing it but maybe it would be wise to tone down on the 'for the rest of my life' part.

A good (but a little sneaky) method of changing her mind is finding something she is really into, like art, music or a specific kind of literature and then look for a big name within that scene who has done a lot of psychedelics and is quite open about it.

Like it would be perfect if Brave New World was her favorite book  :thumbup:

Post some things here and I am sure people can come up with a famous druggie.


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19046682 - 10/28/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

it would be wise to tone down on the 'for the rest of my life' part.



I for one can't really agree to this. Psychs are IMO best used regularly, not once and then done. You don't have sex once and then that's it, you're done with it. You don't exercise once and then be a couch potato for life.

If you found something that is good, healthy and useful, you find a reasonable responsible way to use it, in healthy moderation, and stick with it for as long as you like it.

To me it all maps quite closely to sex, in the sense that it's healthy, natural, useful and fun, and you function better if you have it in your life, as opposed to if you don't.

If someone is coming with the preposterous idea that I should be a virgin for life, or that I should have sex once or twice and then stop forever, they'd better have EXTREMELY IMPORTANT reasons for me to do so, not just their own ignorance and fear of the unknown, like clearheads often do.

OP's lady is the daughter of an alcoholic, and apparently hits the glass a little too often herself. As someone who's in the active process of destroying her liver and being a shitty example to her own kids, I think she's in no position to give expert advice about what OP should and shouldn't take.



--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflineTripsurfer
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Spacerific]
    #19046841 - 10/28/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am not saying he should not take psychedelics for the rest of his life. But whats the point of fighting that battle beforehand if it might be avoided.

When I was 17 I was sure I would smoke weed for the rest of my life. Still pretty sure at 20 and 24.

Last time I smoked a joint is over 7 years ago.

I used to take psychs pretty regularly, but these last years there has been a decline. I can easily see myself taking them for the rest of my life but in decreasing frequency.

Just like having sex; when you are young you want to fuck 5 times a day. As you get older the need declines, you still have sex but less often. I dont really know till what age people have sex (there comes a certain point that I dont really want to contemplate it any more).

For OP it would be a shame if he fought this out, lost his relationship, only to have a bad trip and be done with shrooms for ever. He would not be the first to go from absolutely loving to absolutely hating mushrooms.


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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Offlinedontknow
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Spacerific]
    #19046846 - 10/28/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Just my opinion

I think your girlfriend (who I'll assume you love but idk) and your kids are more important than shrooms, tripping, enlightenment and all that jazz.

If you have a kid with somebody I feel that they need to take priority in your life. If she's hurting talk to her, maybe you have to talk for 20 years, do what you can to lessen her pain.

If you leave her your kids will grow up and know that mom and dad split up because of a mushroom.


You do also have to take care of yourself though, but there's compromise.

Is your family worth a mushroom?


--------------------
:box:

The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14

:tripping2: :shroomer:  :trippinballs: :shroomin:

“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.”
Albert Einstein


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OfflineSpacerific
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19046942 - 10/28/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
I am not saying he should not take psychedelics for the rest of his life. But whats the point of fighting that battle beforehand if it might be avoided.

When I was 17 I was sure I would smoke weed for the rest of my life. Still pretty sure at 20 and 24.

Last time I smoked a joint is over 7 years ago.

I used to take psychs pretty regularly, but these last years there has been a decline. I can easily see myself taking them for the rest of my life but in decreasing frequency.

Just like having sex; when you are young you want to fuck 5 times a day. As you get older the need declines, you still have sex but less often. I dont really know till what age people have sex (there comes a certain point that I dont really want to contemplate it any more).

For OP it would be a shame if he fought this out, lost his relationship, only to have a bad trip and be done with shrooms for ever. He would not be the first to go from absolutely loving to absolutely hating mushrooms.



I agree on OP not fighting this out beforehand, but keeping it covert for now instead. Was just trying to say it's not something to sweep under the rug, like I want to trip but won't because it will piss off my woman. Long term that's unsustainable, because it involves suppressing one's own core needs and desires. It's important to realize and act on these deep needs, to work with them and try to integrate them harmoniously with family life. By the sound of it I think OP can do it, and sooner or later his lady will have that trip with him, maybe take it easier with the booze from then on.


--------------------
Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.



For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it,
and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
- Matthew 13:16


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OfflinebeforeIgetold
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: Spacerific]
    #19051161 - 10/29/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Spacerific said:
Quote:

it would be wise to tone down on the 'for the rest of my life' part.



I for one can't really agree to this. Psychs are IMO best used regularly, not once and then done. You don't have sex once and then that's it, you're done with it. You don't exercise once and then be a couch potato for life.

If you found something that is good, healthy and useful, you find a reasonable responsible way to use it, in healthy moderation, and stick with it for as long as you like it.

To me it all maps quite closely to sex, in the sense that it's healthy, natural, useful and fun, and you function better if you have it in your life, as opposed to if you don't.

If someone is coming with the preposterous idea that I should be a virgin for life, or that I should have sex once or twice and then stop forever, they'd better have EXTREMELY IMPORTANT reasons for me to do so, not just their own ignorance and fear of the unknown, like clearheads often do.

OP's lady is the daughter of an alcoholic, and apparently hits the glass a little too often herself. As someone who's in the active process of destroying her liver and being a shitty example to her own kids, I think she's in no position to give expert advice about what OP should and shouldn't take.






Wow.. just found out I need to clear somethig up hehe :laugh: Some how I gave the impresion that my gf is drinking, she isn't... practically never.
Her mother is what could be defined as a functioning alcoholic... doesn't drink at work or when out, but in the confines of her home, she hits the wine almost every day including cosy family dinners :S

Just to be specific :smile:

In relations to the chances of my gf ever tripping with me; I'll work on that, but only because I think she can benefit from it like I have. I dont' want to turn her into a party monkey that is tripping every weekend.
I think last time we did something together was pot almost 2 years ago........
Her first reference when I told that I was going to shroom was her "bad trip" on hashish when she was young.

It's hard telling her not to fear, when she believes the myth and uses an ill conceived experience from 10-12 years ago to enforce that myth :S
Didn't help that a colleague of hers ( a nurse ), told her that she has cared for a guy who went psychotic because of shrooms. (again.... annoying how people fail to acknowledge that it's not the shroom... it's the make-up of the persons mind)


Edited by beforeIgetold (10/29/13 09:39 AM)


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OfflinebeforeIgetold
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Re: Handling family... while psychonautinga [Re: beforeIgetold]
    #19070277 - 11/01/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So ofcourse you guys deserve a little update on this whole affair.

GF blantantly asked me if I was going to do it again... you know the kind of question where I could taste the backstab from a confidant I had told about my intentions or how I honestly feel about shrooms.

I was honest and told her "yes" and also told her that most who dive into this lifestyle would only indulge in it once or twice a year, which was pretty much how I saw it myself.

A long heated discussion followed... She was clinging to her "beliefs" based on what her nurse colleague had told her about 1 experience and suddenly mentioned a doctor friend who she claimed she had also talked to about it.

(mind you... the first time we discussed about this before my first time, she said that her knowledge came from studies of a state department called State Serum institute.... I called her bluff, wrote the head of that the department and was told that they had never examined the effects of shrooms nor had any opinion on them)

Anyways, while I actually could show her the studies of David Erritzøe (PH.D), David Nutt (his work is extensive) and the Norwegian duo Teri Krebs and Pål-Ørjan Johansen (Norways University of Technology and Science), how they have all found that psychedelics do not cause any harm, she could produce nothing but here-say and the same old myths and so on.

In short... I tried to maintain a calm positive attitude towards this discussion, but I honestly felt like I was one guy sitting on a grass lawn minding my own business, then a fortified castle on wheels came rolling up and told me to go sit somewhere else.

She was talking about all the bad stuff in our relationship and how the shrooms were making it worse for her. She told me that the fact that I had done shrooms made me unattractive to her...... :O Again, I let it slip in, maintaining focus (actually I've stopped caring too much about sex little over a year ago so it doesn't really bother me).

I then proceeded to tell her that I thought she was approaching our relationship issues in a wrong fashion.... that instead of constantly keep talking about all the bad things between us, we should be focusing on things that could make it all better. Like doing more stuff together.
Earlier this year I had told her that I wished we could go for walks more together her and me alone. I love walking in the woods or just walking and looking at what's going on around me. She told me then, that she didn't enjoy this kind of stuff... what could I say.

This week, she had two days off, and to my, pleasant, surprise she was out walking alone :O

So tonight I brought that walking thing up again... as something we could do together. That I was happy that she had enjoyed that walk... to which she replied "yeah... alone."

Then I suggested that we could start playing board games or similar... but games where we could communicate. At first she said it sound like a good idea, but reverted back to not wanting to play and said that if we were playing right now she would just sit there wishing for it to end sooner than later.

I really do want to make our relationship work, but I wont allow her to make it about the shrooms. Her setting them as an ultimatum is just plain ridiculous in my view. I was honest with her and told her that yes... I know you can't understand it, and I won't force you to join me, much less force you to respect it, but at the same time I wont accept that you give me that kind of ultimatum based on here-say and 1 example out of 10s of thousands of users.

So it all ended with me keeping my stance, but at the same time opening up for spending more energy and effort in finding positive things about her... she of course also maintained her stance and reinforced that it was standing in her way of getting better with me.

Hard times, but not unbearable.


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