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OfflinePureMadness
TheMagicMan
Registered: 11/01/13
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Dumb question regarding seedling cacti
    #19069726 - 11/01/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry for such a dumb first post but after extensively looking, it's time to ask you wonderful people here. Now I'm wondering about the alkaloid content of seedling Trichocerus peruvianus, and other mescaline containing cacti. Would it be possible to use the equivalent weight in seedlings to achieve the same effect's as said weight in mature cacti?.


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: PureMadness]
    #19069750 - 11/01/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There has been some research that suggests that young plants may have the similar alkaloid profile as mature ones. I'm trying to imagine how many one year old seedlings you'd need for a trip assuming the concentrations are the same, and really can't. But the number would have to be ridiculously huge.


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: PureMadness]
    #19069766 - 11/01/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflinePureMadness
TheMagicMan
Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: modern.shaman]
    #19069792 - 11/01/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tangich said:
There has been some research that suggests that young plants may have the similar alkaloid profile as mature ones. I'm trying to imagine how many one year old seedlings you'd need for a trip assuming the concentrations are the same, and really can't. But the number would have to be ridiculously huge.




Thank you. I'd expect a big number (several hundred - thousand) but in theory could you not produce a usable weight in cacti in a shorter time span than growing the same cacti out from seed? (assuming similar alkaloid content)


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: PureMadness]
    #19069817 - 11/01/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Trichocereus seeds are pretty cheap in quantity, wouldn't be to hard to try this out. They would pup again from the bases after harvesting too.


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OfflinePureMadness
TheMagicMan
Registered: 11/01/13
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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: psi]
    #19069845 - 11/01/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Trichocereus seeds are pretty cheap in quantity, wouldn't be to hard to try this out. They would pup again from the bases after harvesting too.




I plan to attempt it, just thought I'd get opinions and make sure I'm not at a guaranteed failure. Either way I'll have a few more seedling's and my question answered, so I'll be happy.


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: PureMadness]
    #19069995 - 11/01/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PureMadness said:
I'd expect a big number (several hundred - thousand) but in theory could you not produce a usable weight in cacti in a shorter time span than growing the same cacti out from seed? (assuming similar alkaloid content)




Not sure that you could. The key here is the increment in usable mass, and I'm not convinced that seedlings grow proportionately more than adults. But I'm not an expert on Trichocerei...


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Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Dumb question regarding seedling cacti [Re: LSoares]
    #19073696 - 11/02/13 05:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In my mind best way to get material for harvesting is obtain good size cutting, then chop it for few pieces and root them.. Later on I would cut more and more cutting from one older cutting and then no matter are they grown etiolated or full sun or under artificial lights, they should be as potent as cactus cutting. Assuming you can obtain potent cuttings at first place to start your cultivation of trichocereus for consumption.

Growing small seedlings and then harvest them would be in my mind bad idea cause there can be good potent clones or no potency at all so possible get enough mass to have mescaline you should need tons of seedlings and you probably destroy the "good ones" too young. Depends ofc how old seedlings you are going to harvest for consumption but I would not do so. I would use time for find good specimens for consumption, then start propagate more and more cuttings later on..

After some time you can chop few inches from every cactus top and make your beverage and let them grow new offshoots.. And only pick the potent ones for that purpose.

Testing the cactus I would recommend to try smaller dosage of dry material or so.. If that amount have some effects, minor or good long lasting effects, then you know what specimens you should start propagate further.

About consuming seedlings: you cannot really know what is the potent one and what not, there is very variable amount of mescaline if there is any. This can be try if someone are really in to that kind of growing but let's get this clear, if you have 1000 plants, you have same amount different genetic and variations and not all plants are probably even active enough so you can have inactive flesh with active flesh so in general it reduce the activity lots.

I advice to grow all seedlings old enough, then try what gives your even small feeling of mescaline present and start propagate your garden and only mescaline containing plants present and rest of plants what doesn't give any effects you can leave away from cultivation.

The idea is good and I understand it but I am sure you encounter problems when you have thousands of small seedlings cause there is for sure weaker clones along more potent ones..

I have consume times ago very slim and etiolated sections of cacti, it's as active as the adult cuttings but they need to be grown from active cuttings, actual diameter later on doesn't define the potency so much but measuring dosage you should have dry the tissue to know how much you need for ingestion. My point is: You can easily grow lots of etiolated plants cloned from same cacti and harvest the tips of the plants for ingestion but you need to have the all cuttings from cactus known to be potent. Also this rule out chance of inactive flesh you probably got when consuming seedlings as big number cause possibility to get lots of inactive plants are always there when grown plants from seed.. You cannot know what is the potent seedlings and what is not and overall potency of whole mass will drop dramatically.

If you really want to experience cacti, I suggest to have some time for cultivation and later on rule out the inactive ones and start propagate the active clones.

Actually I don't know how small seedlings are planned to consume or so but in my mind it's waste of potent clones by starting to mix up lots of seed grown young plants to one mass of cacti. But, anyone can do what ever want to do, I see this choice of growing mescaline plant for consumption very bad cause there is chance to have strong clones grown to adult if you sow tons of seeds and later on test potency by harvesting few plants here or there and get rid of inactive plants and propagate the active ones to bigger numbers from offshoots.

If you are going to do that, I am interested to know how much time you have used to grow lots of seedlings and what kind of effects they have or do they have effects at all.


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