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solarshroomster
Wonderer


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 5 days, 5 hours
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Cultivating advice
#19069180 - 11/01/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi all, I'm new here. I plan on cultivating and want to make sure that I do it right. I have 4 questions!
Pretty much, as I understand it, the cultivation process is basically just 2 main steps:
(1) getting a substrate mixture (brown rice, vermiculite, water) and sterilizing it; and (2) injecting spores and then letting them grow (first, colonizing until the jar is white; and then, second, letting the jars sit in a clear tank with water sprayed)
ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO KEEP EVERYTHING STERILE? HOW GENEROUS IS THE PROCESS OF KEEPING EVERYTHING STERILE?
Is it fine if I just use 3 layers of tin foil with the upper-most layer being not pierced by the syringe?
And, last, can I let some air into the jars as it is being colonized?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Sterilze the jar flame the needle between jars, leave the foill off after inoculation and research a sgfc
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Quote:
solarshroomster said: second, letting the jars sit in a clear tank with water sprayed)
Not just a clear tank....and do not use a fish tank...use a plastic bin you can drill holes in.
You also have to humidify the tub somehow, if you build a SGFC you will need perlite for this.
And I do recommend building a SGFC for fruiting.
Quote:
solarshroomster said: Is it fine if I just use 3 layers of tin foil with the upper-most layer being not pierced by the syringe?
No, leave the inoculation holes open and exposed, the foil should be removed after sterilization, before inoculation.
This will ensure that the dry verm layer, which acts as your filter, remains dry and effective.
Quote:
solarshroomster said: And, last, can I let some air into the jars as it is being colonized?
No, just inoculate them and leave them alone until they are fully colonized, then give them another week before birthing, rinsing them off, dunking them in tap water for 24 hours, and rolling them in dry verm.
You them place them in the SGFC and mist them an hour later.
Mist the cakes directly with a fine mist until they glisten, then fan out the chamber real good.
Mist again once the water you previously applied has evaporated.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (11/01/13 10:51 AM)
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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: PussyFart]
#19069717 - 11/01/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been told that it's not a good idea to suck a little bit of air into the syringe to make it easier to break the spore clumps up before inoculation but It's never really brought up so when I seen this and no one had said anything about how to properly suck air into the syringe or properly spread the spores in the syringe I thought I'd bring it up. what's the right way?
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Flame the needle until red hot, then suck thru the live flame.
That's how I would do it.....really quick.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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You shouldn't just suck air up randomly but if you do it when making your syringe with some sterile procedure it will help break shit up but I don't use enough spores to have to break nething up
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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solarshroomster
Wonderer


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 5 days, 5 hours
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: PussyFart]
#19070200 - 11/01/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi all, I'm confused by what specifically to do with the jars after they have been sterilized by the PC. Notahacker, you say, that I should "leave the inoculation holes open and exposed" and that "the foil should be removed after sterilization, before inoculation."
But then, in response to my questions "And, last, can I let some air into the jars as it is being colonized?" you say...
"No, just inoculate them and leave them alone until they are fully colonized, then give them another week before birthing, rinsing them off, dunking them in tap water for 24 hours, and rolling them in dry verm."
Evidently, I have something mixed up; because, I am not sure what you are saying...
After I have use the PC to sterilize the substrate contained within jars that have tin foil on them, I take the jars out of the PC. I then inoculate them with the spores through the tin foil. Should I leave the tin foil with holes on?
Maybe... you are referring to a jar cap with holes drilled on... and that I should put a tin foil on that when sterilizing... the foil will then be removed when innoculating through the drilled holes of the jar cap and then left alone thereafter until storage in a SGFC? The only problem here is my concern that, when I drill through the jar cap, it will contaminate the jar cap and expose some iron.
Either way, if the inoculated substrate is contained in a jar with holes still open... the end result will still be some air getting in.
Thanks much,
SolarShroomster
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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The foil is just for the sterilizing process to stop water from getting in,remove the foil and inoculate
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Doc_D
Indifferent


Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 350
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Quote:
solarshroomster said: Hi all, I'm confused by what specifically to do with the jars after they have been sterilized by the PC. Notahacker, you say, that I should "leave the inoculation holes open and exposed" and that "the foil should be removed after sterilization, before inoculation."
But then, in response to my questions "And, last, can I let some air into the jars as it is being colonized?" you say...
"No, just inoculate them and leave them alone until they are fully colonized, then give them another week before birthing, rinsing them off, dunking them in tap water for 24 hours, and rolling them in dry verm."
Evidently, I have something mixed up; because, I am not sure what you are saying...
After I have use the PC to sterilize the substrate contained within jars that have tin foil on them, I take the jars out of the PC. I then inoculate them with the spores through the tin foil. Should I leave the tin foil with holes on?
Maybe... you are referring to a jar cap with holes drilled on... and that I should put a tin foil on that when sterilizing... the foil will then be removed when innoculating through the drilled holes of the jar cap and then left alone thereafter until storage in a SGFC? The only problem here is my concern that, when I drill through the jar cap, it will contaminate the jar cap and expose some iron.
Either way, if the inoculated substrate is contained in a jar with holes still open... the end result will still be some air getting in.
Thanks much,
SolarShroomster
Gas exchange (GE) is required when colonizing, the holes will provide this.
The dry vermiculite barrier will prevent contaminates from entering your substrate, well, they will unless it’s wet which is why you remove the tin-foil after steaming/PC’ing. Because as already stated the foil is ONLY there to prevent water droplets from getting into the holes (as they will rain down when sterilizing).
Good luck!!
-------------------- A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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joiningheads
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 41
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: Doc_D]
#19070440 - 11/01/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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*Read the PFTek (more than once!) and if possible watch RR's PFTek/BRF Cakes video. *Make a glovebox *Wipe the inner rim of the jars with alcohol BEFORE applying dry verm layer to remove any BRF that may have stuck there and may serve as a "jump off" point for contams which may enter through the holes during colonization. *PC the jars 60-90 mins @ 12-15psi(WAIT FOR THEM TO COOL COMPLETELY - Overnight is the safest bet, leaving them in the PC is ideal until ready to inoculate) *Remove foil from jars & take jars from PC into your glovebox. *Flame the needle (OUTSIDE THE GLOVEBOX) and while it's still red hot move it into the glovebox and immediately disperse no more than about 2cc's solution total per 1/2 pint jar (1/2cc per hole if 4). This will ensure your water content is maintained. *Wait for full colonization before opening or disturbing anything. They can be in light or dark, doesn't matter. Generally its best to birth them when little pins have developed.
N.B. The sterile side of the equation is proper PC procedure, inoculation procedure, and colonization. Fruiting chambers are never sterile, its impossible. As others have said, get some perlite and build a Shotgun Terrarium (SGFC). Again, read the PFTek and watch the RR PFTek/Cakes video more than once so when the time comes you are absolutely sure what to do, thus not forgetting a crucial step.
Good Luck!
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


Registered: 07/04/13
Posts: 1,150
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Personally I would say don't bother with PF Tek and just make a monotub. I really can't see what the point of PF Tek is the day today
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PirateSwazey



Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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just watch this man. if you got 9 bucks to spare, buy it. it has been of tremendous value to me.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5E89E9D16348D911
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joiningheads
Enthusiast


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 41
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: Skinty]
#19072058 - 11/01/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Personally I would say don't bother with PF Tek and just make a monotub. I really can't see what the point of PF Tek is the day today
The PFTek is dated, no doubt. And colonization times are so damn slow with the PFTek compared to rye or WBS. The PFTek is usually for people without a PC, so its good for beginners in that sense. And he has a PC, so its not a must. I just recommended it because I didn't want to add any more teks to avoid possible confusion. Fruiting cakes is going to be higher maintenance than trays or spawn bags, since there really isn't much of a casing layer to hold in humidity. Hell, you could always spawn your cakes to a few big bags of substrate if you want to get some grain-to-grain experience before entering the fruiting stage.
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


Registered: 07/04/13
Posts: 1,150
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Quote:
joiningheads said:
Quote:
Personally I would say don't bother with PF Tek and just make a monotub. I really can't see what the point of PF Tek is the day today
The PFTek is dated, no doubt. And colonization times are so damn slow with the PFTek compared to rye or WBS. The PFTek is usually for people without a PC, so its good for beginners in that sense. And he has a PC, so its not a must. I just recommended it because I didn't want to add any more teks to avoid possible confusion. Fruiting cakes is going to be higher maintenance than trays or spawn bags, since there really isn't much of a casing layer to hold in humidity. Hell, you could always spawn your cakes to a few big bags of substrate if you want to get some grain-to-grain experience before entering the fruiting stage. 
Yeh that's the thing - as long as you have a PC...for the amount of effort you put in why not just run a mono and get 10 x the yield. Seems like a no brainer. No extra expense either. I do not really go along with the whole "doing PF Tek helps teach about sterile technique and the growth cycle of the mushroom" thing
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: Skinty]
#19075195 - 11/02/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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the pf tek is the fastest route from spores to fruits actually and has its place for sure, were not all here for mass amounts afterall
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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joiningheads
Enthusiast


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 41
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: cronicr]
#19075265 - 11/02/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: the pf tek is the fastest route from spores to fruits actually and has its place for sure, were not all here for mass amounts afterall
If you want to talk speed, in my experience, rye or WBS will colonize MUCH faster. Ground up flour is unshakable and slow to colonize because its too thick and not their preferred sub. You better be adding some texture to the BRF if you want there to be any competition. Its not all about yields. I often see rye colonize in half the time as a PF jar. They're so damn slow.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 17 days, 16 hours
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Quote:
joiningheads said:
Quote:
cronicr said: the pf tek is the fastest route from spores to fruits actually and has its place for sure, were not all here for mass amounts afterall
If you want to talk speed, in my experience, rye or WBS will colonize MUCH faster. Ground up flour is unshakable and slow to colonize because its too thick and not their preferred sub. You better be adding some texture to the BRF if you want there to be any competition. Its not all about yields. I often see rye colonize in half the time as a PF jar. They're so damn slow.
You are missing the point.....
From spore to fruit....
Your colonized grains still have to be spawned and the substrate still has to colonize.
Cakes get fruited right away.
So you might just see fruit bodies sooner with cakes than with grains to bulk.
I can see this happening anyways.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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joiningheads
Enthusiast


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 41
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Re: Cultivating advice [Re: PussyFart]
#19075295 - 11/02/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Who said you have to spawn them? You can case the rye right in the jars. This was the original method developed by the Mckenna brothers in their 1976 grower's guide. Its not a method I necessarily prefer though...
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solarshroomster
Wonderer


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 5 days, 5 hours
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Guys, so... you leave the holes exposed after the jar has been sterilized in the PC, right? Only, when the jars are in the PC, do you block the holes with a tin foil, right?
BUT, where actually are the holes?! I guest that's where I'm confused. Do you drill them in the jar cap? You only cover them with tin foil when they are in the PC? Aren't you concerned about iron contamination if drilling through a jar cap?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (11/02/13 02:12 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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no rust wont hurt anything and take the foil off before you inoculate
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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joiningheads
Enthusiast


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 41
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Quote:
solarshroomster said: Guys, so... you leave the holes exposed after the jar has been sterilized in the PC, right? Only, when the jars are in the PC, do you block the holes with a tin foil, right?
BUT, where actually are the holes?! I guest that's where I'm confused. Do you drill them in the jar cap? You only cover them with tin foil when they are in the PC? Aren't you concerned about iron contamination if drilling through a jar cap?
You need to make 4 holes equally spaced near the edges (near the seal) on each of the lids BEFORE anything else. The holes are made near the edges so you can inject along the glass and see the spore solutions germinate and begin colonization. Use a small nail slightly larger in diameter than the needle and a hammer and just pound right through. Use a piece of wood or something as a support underneath while you do this! After you've prepared your BRF/verm and covered with dry verm, put the prepped lid on the jar, screw on the lid, and cover with a 6" square of tin foil pressed around the top of the jar and down the sides a little. This keeps the jars' water content correct by not allowing the PC to rain down into the jars. Remove from PC when ready to inoculate.
Edited by joiningheads (11/02/13 04:16 PM)
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