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Offlinemindgnome
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Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 816
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Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: B_BOY]
    #19074532 - 11/02/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I beg to differ, he made it so states could regulate laws like that. It would be hard for him to get support if he was just like "hell yeah lets legalize weed". I like Ron Paul in a way because he is truthful but he also has some crazy theories about how to do things and he isn't going to get into office because he is very liberal and very conservative at the same time.


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"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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InvisibleB_BOY
Phuck Ewe
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Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2,819
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: mindgnome]
    #19074539 - 11/02/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you can't beg to differ from facts..


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Offlinemindgnome
Wanderer


Registered: 10/30/13
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: B_BOY]
    #19074550 - 11/02/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

that isn't a fact lol. I would sort of see what you say as flaming but the thing is I think you actually believe what you say. Obama isn't a saint but he has actually been more generous to drug offenders than most presidents.


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"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: mindgnome]
    #19074560 - 11/02/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not true at all, did you read the article?

flaming? :laugh2: if that meant i was flaming someone needs to tighten their britches a lil.

I understand that you Libs Want to believe everything the Liar in chief says.


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Invisiblelighthouse09
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: baldtim]
    #19074563 - 11/02/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

IDK all your saying about obama seems that almost every preisident has done and if you compare it to bush like i just did bush was way worse. he may not be great but what president was they all have dirty secrets they have to deal with that shit is kinda their job.
the point was money needs to be out of politics all together maybe we should ONLY vote for people with no corporate backing who would disagree with that except people who want to control things so fuck um dont vote for um any of um!!


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19074571 - 11/02/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I would vote for someone with no corporate backing. As long as they weren't some crazy conservative weirdo.


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"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


Edited by mindgnome (11/02/13 10:53 AM)


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: lighthouse09]
    #19074580 - 11/02/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

explain how Bush was WAY worse, not just with opinions but with some facts this time. I posted over 400 lies Obama has told so far. Not to mention if you like your current insurance you can keep it period. That lie he told a dozen times. But let me guess, blame Bush for Obamas lies also? I wonder if any Democrats will ever wake up to see they have been mislead by the biggest fake in US presidential history. Even Jimmy Carter is calling out his policies now LOL!

Yeah gnome cuz no Democrats are crazy right? Pelosi said WE must pass this bill to see what's in it first :lol:


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: B_BOY]
    #19074653 - 11/02/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

George Bush was awful and because what has gone on in congress his shitty policies stay alive.


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"As I walk on through troubled times my spirit gets so downhearted sometimes so where are the strong and who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin' away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?" - Nick Lowe

"Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change; they can't impose it...” - Sasha Shulgin


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: baldtim]
    #19074677 - 11/02/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

baldtim said:
If McCain had won, there would be no tea party.  It is an astro turf organization invented by the Koch's and Glen Beck.

The rubes in the movement are shills for The Big Boys who just don't like paying taxes at all.    The rubes are fueled by the unveiled racism, homophobia, hatred, and "i want my country back" hick mentality.

What we need is for the tea partiers and republicans to die off ... they are, just one funeral at a time.  Then we need a real progressive party to represent the Smart People.  The democratic party isn't liberal -- you fell for it, huh? -- they are right of the Reagan republicans of the 80's.

Don't ever think that anything you see on "the TV" is news.  There is no real news on tv anymore, just "corporate news".    If you insist on getting your information from there, then you probably just put a cork in it because you are just a parrot.  grawk!!  grawk!!




Except for the last part about TV news everything you wrote is bullshit.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: mindgnome]
    #19074686 - 11/02/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mindgnome said:
George Bush was awful and because what has gone on in congress his shitty policies stay alive.




What shitty Bush policies have been perpetuated by Congress that are counter to Obama's wishes?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19074705 - 11/02/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

B_BOY said:
Like a typical Liberal you run from facts, did you read any of the article? No? Can you read? Do you have those glasses that hide facts from your eyes?  btw the Big Lie list is growing daily




It isn't an article, it's a blog, with many, many dubious and misleading entries.  Something that the right loves.

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
You, of all people, I thought would respect politicians that aren't in the pocket of big business?  THAT is why they are losing some business support--they threaten the gravy train.

Some other points:

TEA stands for 'Taxed enough already'

1)  Please show evidence of 'racism' in the TEA party.  That is only what is spouted on the mainstream media.

2)  Their agenda has never been to create a theocratic state.  That again is what LIBERALS said, even though some are religious.  If there are people with strong religious beliefs that is so; however, Libertarians strongly believe in the segregation of church and state. 

3)  They NEVER wanted to not pay the countries debt.  They clearly stated that the debts would be paid.

You guys fall for the classic political trick of the opposing party and media defining the position of the other side.  Just because Obama and the Mainstream make a claim that doesn't mean it is true. 

Just because some members of a group have strong positions you can't apply that to the whole group.  That would be like saying every democrat is a lying cocksucker just because Obama is one.




Firstly, I don't want politicians in the pockets of businessmen, but until we get campaign finance reform, that will never happen.  Therefore, I would rather more moderate candidates to be backed the money, instead of the racist, bigoted, "god loving" candidates of the Tea Party.

1)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/20/90772/rep-john-lewis-charges-protesters.html

http://washingtonindependent.com/73036/n-word-sign-dogs-would-be-tea-party-leader

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/inge-marler-tea-party-arkansas-leader-racist-joke_n_1597334.html

http://socialistworker.org/2010/07/20/calling-out-tea-party-racists

http://www.naacp.org/pages/tea-party-report

http://aattp.org/20-of-the-most-racist-teapublican-political-signs/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/18/gop-anti-immigration_n_3618392.html

Not to even go into the religious hate speech, and xenophobic comments. 

2)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/25/979298/-The-Tea-Party-Patriots-expose-their-theocratic-roots-and-try-to-infiltrate-our-schools

http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2010/10/27/the-party-of-theocracy

https://www.au.org/church-state/january-2011-church-state/people-events/tea-party-reps-want-%E2%80%98christian-nation%E2%80%99-view-of

They want to ban abortion, prevent same-sex marriage, include creationism in science courses, and force people to have religious studies classes.

Besides that, Michelle Bachmann claims she is a prophet, E.W. Jackson claims that God created the tea party, teaparty.org claims "Yes, we are a Christian nation," and Jim Demint thinks that the Tea Party will restore American's faith in God.

But nope, they don't want to enforce their strict "moral" code on anybody.

3) Here are the senators that to default on our nation's debt.

Coburn (R-OK), Cornyn (R-TX), Crapo (R-ID), Cruz (R-TX), Enzi (R-WY), Grassley (R-IA), Heller (R-NV), Johnson (R-WI), Lee (R-UT)Paul (R-KY), Risch (R-ID), Roberts (R-KS), Rubio (R-FL), Scott (R-SC), Sessions (R-AL), Shelby (R-AL), Toomey (R-PA), Vitter (R-LA). 

You can see which ones are tea party aligned.

You can find the house vote here: http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/113/house/1/550

And notice that the 144 "no" votes, or a vote to default on our nations debt were not only all republicans, but many of them are also Tea Party aligned, or heralded by the Tea Party as being a quality candidate.

You can try to claim that "Just because some members of a group have strong positions you can't apply that to the whole group." But when that goes from "some," to a large minority, or even a majority, you can start applying those things to a whole group.  You've got Tea Party leaders, Tea Party supporters, and Tea Party candidates and they're all doing this shit.  You can no longer blame this on "mainstream media."  That's the huge fucking joke of a cop-out too.


Edited by Mush4Brains (11/02/13 11:37 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19074851 - 11/02/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

B_BOY said:
Like a typical Liberal you run from facts, did you read any of the article? No? Can you read? Do you have those glasses that hide facts from your eyes?  btw the Big Lie list is growing daily




It isn't an article, it's a blog, with many, many dubious and misleading entries.  Something that the right loves.




It's an article on a blog replete with numerous sources and facts.  Please feel free to point out the misleading entries.  Thanks in advance, Komrade.
Quote:



Quote:

starfire_xes said:
You, of all people, I thought would respect politicians that aren't in the pocket of big business?  THAT is why they are losing some business support--they threaten the gravy train.
Some other points:

TEA stands for 'Taxed enough already'

1)  Please show evidence of 'racism' in the TEA party.  That is only what is spouted on the mainstream media.

2)  Their agenda has never been to create a theocratic state.  That again is what LIBERALS said, even though some are religious.  If there are people with strong religious beliefs that is so; however, Libertarians strongly believe in the segregation of church and state. 

3)  They NEVER wanted to not pay the countries debt.  They clearly stated that the debts would be paid.

You guys fall for the classic political trick of the opposing party and media defining the position of the other side.  Just because Obama and the Mainstream make a claim that doesn't mean it is true. 

Just because some members of a group have strong positions you can't apply that to the whole group.  That would be like saying every democrat is a lying cocksucker just because Obama is one.




Firstly, I don't want politicians in the pockets of businessmen, but until we get campaign finance reform, that will never happen.  Therefore, I would rather more moderate candidates to be backed the money, instead of the racist, bigoted, "god loving" candidates of the Tea Party.

1)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/20/90772/rep-john-lewis-charges-protesters.html







That will do quite enough to establish that you lie.  The accusation was a lie.  Nobody called Lewis a "nigger".

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/06/026646.php

Quote:

Not a single video corroborated it although many videos were shot that day, and despite Breitbart’s offer of a $100,000 reward to anyone producing a video that corroborated it. No independent journalist or other eyewitness stepped forward to vouch for the congressmen’s story.





You are as mendacious as Obama
Quote:




Coburn (R-OK), Cornyn (R-TX), Crapo (R-ID), Cruz (R-TX), Enzi (R-WY), Grassley (R-IA), Heller (R-NV), Johnson (R-WI), Lee (R-UT)Paul (R-KY), Risch (R-ID), Roberts (R-KS), Rubio (R-FL), Scott (R-SC), Sessions (R-AL), Shelby (R-AL), Toomey (R-PA), Vitter (R-LA). 

You can see which ones are tea party aligned.

You can find the house vote here: http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/113/house/1/550

And notice that the 144 "no" votes, or a vote to default on our nations debt were not only all republicans, but many of them are also Tea Party aligned, or heralded by the Tea Party as being a quality candidate.




There was never a threat to default on the debt.  Another lie.  The government takes in plenty of funds every month needed to service the debt.  If you have to borrow money to pay your debts what do you call that?  I call it a Ponzi scheme.
Quote:



You can try to claim that "Just because some members of a group have strong positions you can't apply that to the whole group." But when that goes from "some," to a large minority, or even a majority, you can start applying those things to a whole group.  You've got Tea Party leaders, Tea Party supporters, and Tea Party candidates




Is the Congressional Black Caucus a racist organization?  Yes, it most certainly is and a large minority of Democrats belong to it.  So let's call the Dems what they are.  Racists.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19074962 - 11/02/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Nope

"saying that even if an individual right to bear arms exists, the District of Columbia was justified in restricting that right because it believed that the law would lessen violence"

This is a lie.



Not at all...it's a legal argument.  It isn't a factual assertion at all.  Something doesn't become a lie simply because you disagree.  You're really stretching here.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: Enlil]
    #19075081 - 11/02/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think so.  I think the absurdity of the argument, i.e. that there are no Constitutional Rights immune to a dubious efficacy argument about what politicians "feel", is so far over the top as to constitute a lie.  I'm sure he's told a few other whoppers as well but that one came right out to me.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19075097 - 11/02/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're completely wrong, of course.  No Constitutional right is absolute.  The right to bear arms, while individual and fundamental can still be infringed if the government has a compelling interest.  That is hornbook law.  He was simply arguing that the desire to reduce crime and violence was a compelling interest.  You're entitled to disagree as the SCOTUS did.  That doesn't make it a lie.

You're never going to find a human being on the planet with which you agree on everything.  If disagreement means that person is a liar, then there's really no need for the word since it describes every human except yourself.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: Enlil]
    #19075116 - 11/02/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Did you read what he said?

"justified in restricting that right because it believed".  That is abject nonsense and he knows it.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19075122 - 11/02/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

1) Carried out military interventionism in Libya without Congressional approval




Dubious.  Congressional approval wasn't necessary.  Kucinich's position that Obama violated the constitution is meaningless.

Quote:

2) Gave a no-bid contract to Halliburton – just like Bush did.




Flat out lie.  The blogger even mentions "a former subsidiary of Halliburton."  KBR is no longer a subsidiary to Halliburton, so unless you can find no bid contracts to Halliburton, this is false.

Quote:

5) Broke his promise to close Guantanamo Bay




Dubious.  This argument has been completely played out.  I know you will say that Obama has the power to unilaterally close the prison and transfer prisoners, but that simply is not the case.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/177/close-the-guantanamo-bay-detention-center/

Quote:

10) Expanded Bush’s unconstitutional government faith based programs




Dubious.  Unconstitutional by whose standards?  Because one program that was funded crossed the line?

Quote:

11) Supported Bush’s unconstitutional Patriot Act




Once again, dubious.  Unconstitutional as decided on by which court?

Quote:

12) Increased the national debt more in one term than Bush did in two




Although true, completely ignoring the reasons why there was such a large deficit is misleading.  The president doesn't set spending levels.  Congress does.

Quote:

27) Falsely claimed to believe in public education




And this is based on the fact that he sent his kids to private school?  Has any child of a president gone to a public school in the last 30 years (5 different administrations)? 

Quote:

39) Auctioned off ambassadorship to the Netherlands




So the fuck what?  This happens in every administration.  Bundlers and fundraisers get cushy ambassadorships. 

Quote:

68) Announced plans to send military to Australia




So the fuck what? 

Quote:

71) Rejected international help to clean up BP oil spill




So the fuck what?

Quote:

76) Sent U.S. troops to Africa




So the fuck what?

Quote:

79) Illegally gave Obamacare exemptions to unions that supported the passage of Obamacare



Pants on fire.

Quote:

82) Supported Bush administration for fining CBS for showing Janet Jackson’s breast




So the fuck what?

Quote:

91) Tried to replace science with political correctness




Dubious.  Saying you want to bring the anti-science portion of the Muslim world into the modern times is not being "politically correct," it is tapping into a portion of the world that used to be the center of scientific advancement before religious zealots took over.

Quote:

100) Approved giving 20 F-16 fighter jets to a Sharia dictatorship




Although true, this was due to a long standing treaty with Egypt, to help maintain peace between Egypt and Israel.  It is misleading that the Pat Robertson founded ACLJ ignores this key fact.


I've gone through 100 of these now, taking the better part of an hour and a half.  Most of these complaints would be listed under the "etc." portion of "lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc."  A few blatant lies.  Many that are simply complaints about something the author doesn't like.  Most are so trivial that you would scratch your head asking "Who gives a fuck?"  Others are a concern, but having so much trash with a few pockets of truth that people can claim "See, it's stating FACTS" is dishonesty at its finest.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19075169 - 11/02/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Did you read what he said?

"justified in restricting that right because it believed".  That is abject nonsense and he knows it.




No.  You disagree with it, but that doesn't make it nonsense.  If the government believes that a compelling interest will be served by the law, and the law is narrowly tailored to that interest, it's constitutional.  The government doesn't have to always be right...they just have to have a good faith belief that they are right.

Again.  You don't have to agree, but that's Con law 101.  Ask your daughter.

By the way, the SCOTUS actually didn't disagree that DC had a compelling interest that was served by the handgun ban.  They just disagreed that the handgun ban was narrowly tailored to the compelling interest....So they actually agreed with Chemerinsky on that particular point.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19075174 - 11/02/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

1) Carried out military interventionism in Libya without Congressional approval




Dubious.  Congressional approval wasn't necessary.  Kucinich's position that Obama violated the constitution is meaningless.

Did he or did he not do it?

Quote:

2) Gave a no-bid contract to Halliburton – just like Bush did.




Flat out lie.  The blogger even mentions "a former subsidiary of Halliburton."  KBR is no longer a subsidiary to Halliburton, so unless you can find no bid contracts to Halliburton, this is false.

Whatever.  He has given dozens, at least, of no bid contracts

Quote:

5) Broke his promise to close Guantanamo Bay




Dubious.  This argument has been completely played out.  I know you will say that Obama has the power to unilaterally close the prison and transfer prisoners, but that simply is not the case.

It is the case

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/177/close-the-guantanamo-bay-detention-center/

I might remind you that for the first two years of his Presidency he had a completelly compliant Congress and he made no effor to close Gitmo

Quote:

10) Expanded Bush’s unconstitutional government faith based programs




Dubious.  Unconstitutional by whose standards?  Because one program that was funded crossed the line?

You can argue the constitutionality if you want but he did expand the faith based programs

Quote:

11) Supported Bush’s unconstitutional Patriot Act




Once again, dubious.  Unconstitutional as decided on by which court?

Once again, he did support it.  Just like Bush

Quote:

12) Increased the national debt more in one term than Bush did in two




Although true, completely ignoring the reasons why there was such a large deficit is misleading.  The president doesn't set spending levels.  Congress does.

It is because of his spending policies and business destroying policies.  He totally controlled Congress for the first two years and still has a poodle Senate.  This is owned by Obama

Quote:

27) Falsely claimed to believe in public education




And this is based on the fact that he sent his kids to private school?  Has any child of a president gone to a public school in the last 30 years (5 different administrations)?

Beats me.  All that matters is that his don't

Quote:

39) Auctioned off ambassadorship to the Netherlands




So the fuck what?  This happens in every administration.  Bundlers and fundraisers get cushy ambassadorships.

So bad shit is OK because somebody else did it?

Quote:

68) Announced plans to send military to Australia




So the fuck what? 

Quote:

71) Rejected international help to clean up BP oil spill




So the fuck what?

Is it or is it not true?

Quote:

76) Sent U.S. troops to Africa




So the fuck what?

Is it or is it not true?

Quote:

79) Illegally gave Obamacare exemptions to unions that supported the passage of Obamacare



Pants on fire.

Quote:

82) Supported Bush administration for fining CBS for showing Janet Jackson’s breast




So the fuck what?

Quote:

91) Tried to replace science with political correctness




Dubious.  Saying you want to bring the anti-science portion of the Muslim world into the modern times is not being "politically correct," it is tapping into a portion of the world that used to be the center of scientific advancement before religious zealots took over.

Quote:

100) Approved giving 20 F-16 fighter jets to a Sharia dictatorship




Although true, this was due to a long standing treaty with Egypt, to help maintain peace between Egypt and Israel.  It is misleading that the Pat Robertson founded ACLJ ignores this key fact.


I've gone through 100 of these now, taking the better part of an hour and a half.  Most of these complaints would be listed under the "etc." portion of "lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc."  A few blatant lies.  Many that are simply complaints about something the author doesn't like.  Most are so trivial that you would scratch your head asking "Who gives a fuck?"  Others are a concern, but having so much trash with a few pockets of truth that people can claim "See, it's stating FACTS" is dishonesty at its finest.




What blatant lie?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Big Money is done with the Tea Party. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19075229 - 11/02/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"Did he or did he not do it," or "is it true or not" is not the question.  I was told that these would be 400+ examples of "lying, lawbreaking, corruption, cronyism, etc."  That simply isn't what this list is.  It's a big old list of stuff that some dude on the internet doesn't like about the Obama administration. 

You claim "I might remind you that for the first two years of his Presidency he had a completelly compliant Congress and he made no effor to close Gitmo"

Obviously, you didn't read the Politifact article.  I would call signing an executive order to close Gitmo, some sort of effort.  To call the congress "completely compliant" ignores that the "War on Terror" has bipartisan support.

"So bad shit is OK because somebody else did it?"

Explain how this is "bad."  Who better to send abroad to first world allied countries and be the mouthpiece for your administration than people who cared enough about getting you elected?


Blatant lies:

Calling KBR Halliburton
Union waivers
Support for public education
Calling things unconstitutional that have never been put through the courts.


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