Home | Community | Message Board


Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Shroomery Sponsors Forum

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Microscope

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
Lifter of heavyobjects
Male

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Mt. Olympus
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Can someone explain this?
    #1906668 - 09/11/03 07:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It appears that it is a crime to possess viable spores. I thought it was not...
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0703/mg0703.html


--------------------
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree...

"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me."

OCD had rendered me completely insane and not believable.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinetrex1
Stranger
Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 8
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1908549 - 09/12/03 04:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1909607 - 09/12/03 02:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It doesn't say that they are illegal. They were siezed by a post-office, who found them suspicious. The dea grew them out to confirm that they were psilo. Nowhere does it discuss the relevancy of those facts in regards to law, or charges being filed.

Obviously spores are illegal in the case of conspiracy to manufacture. I would assume that any charges stemming from this would have to be along those lines.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDSD
devil

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1,263
Loc: Bad,Bad person - minus ...
Last seen: 4 years, 12 days
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: mycofile]
    #1911600 - 09/13/03 03:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

ohio is trying to pass a bill to make it a crime to possess spores,but as of now it's still legal to possess prints but not to grow them. the bill has been stalled in the house for a few months now. i will check w/ my legal beagle buddy and report back if there is any new news. but unfortunately you can bet your ass that if it's in one of the bills it will pass sooner or later.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineUncleMike
Visionary
Male

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 964
Loc: S.W. Virginia
Last seen: 8 years, 19 days
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: DSD]
    #1912143 - 09/13/03 10:33 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Slowly but surely all states will folow suite of CA and GA


--------------------
Live each day like it will be your last, tomorrow my never come.
SporeSmart


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRipple
Ripple
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 21,014
Loc: the timbers of Fennario
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1914338 - 09/14/03 01:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

"consisting of 645 large jars containing growing psilocybin mushroom cultures."

Were not talking spores here, those are growing cultures which contain psilocybin. Spores contain no psilocybin and are legal in all but two states. For now anyway.


--------------------
The bus came by and I got on that's when it all began!



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDSD
devil

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1,263
Loc: Bad,Bad person - minus ...
Last seen: 4 years, 12 days
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: Ripple]
    #1914458 - 09/14/03 03:18 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)


Yea if you have mycellium in 645 jars your ass is in trouble  :shocked: and i think thats across the board no matter where you live ! 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
Lifter of heavyobjects
Male

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Mt. Olympus
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: Ripple]
    #1915023 - 09/14/03 11:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hello:

Wrong article, the one being referenced is below that one a bit. The one I am asking about is as I have stated...


--------------------
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree...

"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me."

OCD had rendered me completely insane and not believable.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
Lifter of heavyobjects
Male

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Mt. Olympus
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: mycofile]
    #1915039 - 09/14/03 11:53 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I can't agree with that assessment. Here is a quote: "For prosecution purposes (attempt to manufacture psilocybin and/or psilocin, controlled substances), it was necessary to show both that the spores were viable (would grow mushrooms), and that the mushrooms grown from the spores contained psilocybin and/or psilocin."

The quote makes no real sense unless they are stating that merely possessing viable spores is a crime? I am confused as I thought microscopy work with viable spores was perfectly legal, even for amatuers.


--------------------
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree...

"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me."

OCD had rendered me completely insane and not believable.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1917649 - 09/15/03 10:18 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well for one, people are often prosecuted for things that aren't crimes, it's up to a judge or jurry to decide if the crime was committed. There does need to be some evidence to prosecute at all though, and the comment you quote leads me to believe that they at least wanted to be sure that the spores were psilo before continuing with anything.

I guess I was looking at it a little single sidedly. I was thinking more of the vendor who sold the spores being prosecuted.

Depending on the situation, and the quoted crime to be prosecuted "(attempt to manufacture psilocybin and/or psilocin, controlled substances)", it seems more that the customer/reciever of the spores would be the target of the charge. There are many situational details that could make the ordering of the spores to be either circumstancial evidence of such crimes, blatant proof of crime, or a feeble attempt to put together a case destined to be thrown out of court.

For example, if a dumb kid tells someone who happens to be a narc "hey, as soon as I get the spores I ordered, I'm going to grow psilocibian mushrooms", the spores become evidence of the attempt to manufacture. Or, the ordering of the spores is probably not enough to get a search warrant in and of itself, but if officers look through the trash of the customer and find enough suspicious evidence of cultivation, then the syringe order becomes circumstancial evidence along with the other circumstancial evidence which might be enough to get a warrant, or even build a completely circumstancial case against to customer. etc etc.

Spores are still legal, but they are still "grey area" in the fact that they are suspicious and in some conditions may be evidence of a crime.

If the authorities were able to secure a search warrant for the individual, and found nothing beyond a microscope and some prepared slides of psilo spores, there would be no crime, no charges, nothing.

Hopefully if anyone in Great Falls Montana gets arrested, or is harrassed in any way, they will eventually update the rest of us with what happened.

Actually, perhaps there should be sticky threads in all or some of the forums warning anyone from Great Falls Montana who recently ordered 3 spore syringes which never arrived to clean house thoroughly. I'll bring it to the attention of the powers that be and update this thread shortly.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1917675 - 09/15/03 10:44 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...o=7&fpart=1

is a suggestion to the shroomery to try to get the word out to the possible suspect. If anybody has any ideas, please post them there.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTwirling
Barred Spiral
Male

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 2,468
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1917769 - 09/15/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

In order to prosecute Psilocybe Fanticus, who sold spores with instructions on how to grow them, the DEA had to prove that you could grow a controlled substance from the spores. Otherwise they would have no case. The difference between Psilocybe Fanticus and spore legalitly is that, according to the DEA, Psilocybe Fanticus had the intent to grow and manifacture.

There is nothing illegal about owning spores, but the intent to grow could be considered illegal. The US drug laws can be fairly vague about these things.

Vist http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_law8.shtml for more info


--------------------
The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineEnCHaNTeDHoBBiT
Drug Connoisseur

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 337
Loc: Crawling on The Forest Fl...
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: KentuckyPWRLFTR]
    #1920305 - 09/16/03 02:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Everyone should tell their little friends to make as many prints as possible after any experiment. Put them in good storage and be ready. Hopefully we are far, far from the man's ban. Our friends need to try to start as many grows, in as many places as they can. Trying to expand the magic into areas where it hardly, naturally occurs. Like JohnnyAppleseed except he could be JohnnySporeSprinkles. LOL I dunno if this works but it could help if we ever were controlled by the man.


--------------------
"Statements above are absolutely fictional fragments of delusional, reoccuring Dreams."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineKentuckyPWRLFTR
Lifter of heavyobjects
Male

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 167
Loc: Mt. Olympus
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Reply to Mico [Re: mycofile]
    #1941767 - 09/22/03 07:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well for one, people are often prosecuted for things that aren't crimes, it's up to a judge or jurry to decide if the crime was committed. There does need to be some evidence to prosecute at all though, and the comment you quote leads me to believe that they at least wanted to be sure that the spores were psilo before continuing with anything.

////Here is a material implication for you, an "if-then" argument: If the product is legal whether viable or unviable then why test it? They have nothing to gain UNLESS they have another issue. You type, "before continuing with anything", what in that article leads you to believe that there is anything else? That is precisely the thing in question, to wit, the legal status of spores alone. Are you assming that there has to be and then reasoning from there? That is known as Petitio Principii (begging the question). The question is open I guess, but the article is worded in a way that tends to make one one think that the spores themselves are all they need. I mean, why the original seizure of a perfectly legal product? I did not see the words "as part of an ongoing investigation" anywhere.

Depending on the situation, and the quoted crime to be prosecuted "(attempt to manufacture psilocybin and/or psilocin, controlled substances)", it seems more that the customer/reciever of the spores would be the target of the charge. There are many situational details that could make the ordering of the spores to be either circumstancial evidence of such crimes, blatant proof of crime, or a feeble attempt to put together a case destined to be thrown out of court.

////Of course the article should be read as the spore buyer being in jeopardy, there is no proof that a return address was even on the package, let alone a legit one. As for the rest, one is free to assume whatever they want, I guess. But the way the article is written gives a certain inclination towards sticking with what is there.

For example, if a dumb kid tells someone who happens to be a narc "hey, as soon as I get the spores I ordered, I'm going to grow psilocibian mushrooms", the spores become evidence of the attempt to manufacture.

////Was that stated or even remotely implied?

Or, the ordering of the spores is probably not enough to get a search warrant in and of itself, but if officers look through the trash of the customer and find enough suspicious evidence of cultivation, then the syringe order becomes circumstancial evidence along with the other circumstancial evidence which might be enough to get a warrant, or even build a completely circumstancial case against to customer. etc etc.

////I guess we could dream up a ton of scenarios, maybe he called the cops and confessed?

////This post is NOT meant as pejorative, please do not take it that way. Thanks for the reply






--------------------
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan a stately pleasure-dome decree...

"The eternal silence of these infinite spaces frightens me."

OCD had rendered me completely insane and not believable.


Edited by KentuckyPWRLFTR (09/23/03 02:49 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDSD
devil

Registered: 12/01/02
Posts: 1,263
Loc: Bad,Bad person - minus ...
Last seen: 4 years, 12 days
Re: Can someone explain this? [Re: mycofile]
    #1942972 - 09/23/03 01:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)


myco
i think we are all interested in keeping up on the legal side of this hobby and we all appreciate your effort.i think an on going thread as to legal issues, status of cases, individuals etc... is a good idea.i know in my own state (ohio) they are trying to pass a bill and they make it very hard to find, some bills are merged w/other issues ( i.e. - a crop bill for farmers ) and sometimes avoid the media and radar of interested individuals. more informed people keeping an eye on things would definitely help !


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Microscope

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Shroomery Sponsors Forum

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Spore Source - Great, Speedy, Secure, Viable, & Newb Friendly fromthemoon 604 0 09/02/06 04:59 PM
by fromthemoon
* The Hawks Eye.. viable or not? *DELETED* FunkeyMonkey 696 4 07/15/07 01:16 AM
by FunkeyMonkey
* Who manufactures/resells this impulse sealer? World Spirit 1,043 8 01/09/02 11:31 AM
by mycofile
* Phoenix Tool& Manufacturing..anyone need anything? DazedSol 561 3 08/07/02 05:20 PM
by DazedSol
* vendors of anything remotely related to drugs- rommstein2001 1,374 5 01/09/03 10:46 PM
by Baby_Hitler
* ATTN MikeoLogical
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
em_bre_O 8,689 111 12/06/04 01:59 PM
by Anno
* Important article - JLF and the DEA/Law problems
( 1 2 3 all )
ThorA 7,128 48 08/23/08 12:31 PM
by Roadkill
* I got beat by a vendor.....
Left Nut City
1,627 12 10/07/02 09:16 AM
by Anno

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: geokills, motaman, Prisoner#1
1,183 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.085 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.