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Invisiblecycline
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New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21
    #19061771 - 10/31/13 04:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/nyregion/new-york-approves-law-to-raise-tobacco-purchasing-age-to-21.html?_r=0
Quote:


Buying cigarettes in New York City is about to become a lot harder for young people, as lawmakers on Wednesday adopted the strictest limits on tobacco purchases of any major American city.

The legal age for buying tobacco, including cigarettes, electronic cigarettes, cigars and cigarillos will rise to 21, from 18, under a bill adopted by the City Council and which Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has said he would sign. The new minimum age will take effect six months after signing.

The proposal provoked some protest among people who pointed out that New Yorkers under 21 can drive, vote and fight in wars, and should be considered mature enough to decide whether to buy cigarettes. But the Bloomberg administration’s argument — that raising the age to buy cigarettes would discourage people from becoming addicted in the first place — won the day.

“This is literally legislation that will save lives,” Christine C. Quinn, the Council speaker, said shortly before the bill passed 35 to 10.

In pushing the bill, city officials said that the earlier people began smoking, the more likely they were to become addicted. And they pointed out that while the youth smoking rate in the city has declined by more than half since the beginning of the mayor’s administration, to 8.5 percent in 2007 from 17.6 percent in 2001, it has recently stalled.

Besides raising the age to buy cigarettes, the Council also approved various other antismoking measures, such as increased penalties for retailers who evade tobacco taxes, a prohibition on discounts for tobacco products, and a minimum price of $10.50 a pack for cigarettes and little cigars.

The new law is a capstone to more than a decade of efforts by Mr. Bloomberg, like banning smoking in most public places, that have given the city some of the toughest antismoking policies in the world.

In one concession to the cigarette industry, the administration dropped a proposal that would force retailers to keep cigarettes out of sight. City officials said they were doing it because they had not resolved how to deal with the new phenomenon of electronic cigarettes, but others worried that if the tobacco industry lodged a First Amendment challenge to the so-called display ban, it could have derailed the entire package.

The smoking age is 18 in most of the country, but some states have made it 19. Some counties have also adopted 19, including Nassau and Suffolk on Long Island. Needham, Mass., a suburb of Boston, raised the smoking age to 21 in 2005.

James Calvin, president of the New York Association of Convenience Stores, warned on Wednesday that thousands of retail jobs could be lost because the law would reduce traffic not just for tobacco, but also on incidental purchases like coffee or lottery tickets. He predicted that the law would do little to curb smoking, as it does not outlaw the possession of cigarettes by under-age smokers, only their purchase.

Just before the vote, Nicole Spencer, 16, was in Union Square in Manhattan with a cigarette wedged between her fingers.

“I don’t think that’s going to work,” Nicole said when she heard about the plan to raise the age.

She said she began smoking when she was about 13, and had no trouble getting cigarettes. “I buy them off people or I bum them off people,” she said.

She said that “probably half” of her friends at her high school smoked.

Nicole said she thought 18 was a reasonable legal age, echoing Councilman Jumaane D. Williams, who said he voted no because it was not right for the city to ask young people to make life-or-death decisions as police officers and firefighters yet to have “no ability to buy a pack of cigarettes.”





--------------------
“To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wildflower;
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.”

— Auguries of Innocence, William Blake


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: cycline]
    #19061780 - 10/31/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

10.50 a pack? Hoo boy, a lot of smokers ain't gonna be happy with that.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19061808 - 10/31/13 05:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Anyone feel like making some money in NYC selling untaxed cigarettes?
If we don't use the chance, someone else will.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin] * 1
    #19061815 - 10/31/13 05:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sure the mobsters there are way ahead of you.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19061821 - 10/31/13 05:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You are surely right.

On a serious note, this is absolutely ridiculous. This just criminalizes people unnecessarily and creates a black market.
Why can't we treat the psychoactive substances market like - well, err, adults?


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19061838 - 10/31/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by Konyap (10/31/13 05:50 AM)


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19061872 - 10/31/13 05:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
You are surely right.

On a serious note, this is absolutely ridiculous. This just criminalizes people unnecessarily and creates a black market.
Why can't we treat the psychoactive substances market like - well, err, adults?




They're not adults though, they pretty much fail to meet expectations and trash everything they come into contact with.

It's the same with alcohol people are supposed to be learning to drive at that age.

It's probably better off in the long run they don't sell to people that age is what I'm saying


Edited by Konyap (10/31/13 05:52 AM)


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Offlinepartythug
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: cycline] * 3
    #19062040 - 10/31/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No surprise there. Bloomberg et al have been hard at work for some time now, making New York safe for the rich and miserable for anyone deemed insignificant. Good on you, Billionaire Asshole & Co.

Hell, instead of simply raising the price and minimum age, bar anyone with assets (as if most Americans had any at all) over a given value from purchasing cigarettes. Then you can be sure to blame the poor for the scourge of tobacco addiction, line the pockets of anyone of significance, keep those smelly smokers from polluting the precious air of bougie dickheads in restaurants, and set yourself up for the next Health Bullshit Scare Campaign.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: partythug]
    #19062076 - 10/31/13 07:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

partythug said:
No surprise there. Bloomberg et al have been hard at work for some time now, making New York safe for the rich and miserable for anyone deemed insignificant. Good on you, Billionaire Asshole & Co.

Hell, instead of simply raising the price and minimum age, bar anyone with assets (as if most Americans had any at all) over a given value from purchasing cigarettes. Then you can be sure to blame the poor for the scourge of tobacco addiction, line the pockets of anyone of significance, keep those smelly smokers from polluting the precious air of bougie dickheads in restaurants, and set yourself up for the next Health Bullshit Scare Campaign.





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OfflineCannabiForMen
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062102 - 10/31/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

All this is going to do is make Internet bulk cigarette companies rich. I can't see that lasting.


--------------------
"The rain let up and the sun came out as we were getting dry
Almost let a pickup truck nearly pass us by
So we jumped right in and the driver grinned as he dropped us up the road
And we looked at the swim and we jumped right in not to mention fishing poles
Ohhh the water...
Oh ohh the water...
Oh the water...
I dont care if it rains all day."


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Le_Canard]
    #19062118 - 10/31/13 07:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
10.50 a pack? Hoo boy, a lot of smokers ain't gonna be happy with that.




Should be $50.00


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinepartythug
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062133 - 10/31/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19062138 - 10/31/13 07:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
10.50 a pack? Hoo boy, a lot of smokers ain't gonna be happy with that.



Pack of Newports on Staten Island has been hovering at $12.50 for a while now, if you're in Midtown Manhattan, expect to pay $15 - $10.50 is cheap in NYC for cigarettes.
NJ has had the age at 19 for a while now.
21 is fucking ludicrous.
More nanny state bullshit from Bloomberg. He'll probably try to implement a ban on lighters next so nobody can light their cigarettes.
This guy's a fucking clown.

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Anyone feel like making some money in NYC selling untaxed cigarettes?
If we don't use the chance, someone else will.



Been going on for years:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/nyregion/05loosie.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Happens all over urban areas.
Where I work, pretty much every morning I'd hit the corner bodega and get 2 Newport 100's for a $1, and some Mexican like beef pastry thing. Grand total? $1.75 for all of it:awetongue:


--------------------


Beats
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sheekle: fuck peace love and unity
sheekle: death despair and misery
sheekle: is where it's at


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Absent Minded]
    #19062143 - 10/31/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They need to legalize salvia again lol unfair


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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062175 - 10/31/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
They need to legalize salvia again lol unfair



That's illegal too?
Doesn't surprise me..
Honestly, you can have mine. If you can find me:wink:


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sheekle: fuck peace love and unity
sheekle: death despair and misery
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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Absent Minded]
    #19062181 - 10/31/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Absent Minded said:
Quote:

Illyabo said:
They need to legalize salvia again lol unfair



That's illegal too?
Doesn't surprise me..
Honestly, you can have mine. If you can find me;)



Schumer did it, ever since that I've considered him a weasel and a pencil pusher.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062182 - 10/31/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hurricane sandy is all they talk about now

gotta prepare for hurricane sandy hurricane sandy


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OfflineAbsent Minded
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062209 - 10/31/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The hurricane from a year ago?:confused:


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sheekle: fuck peace love and unity
sheekle: death despair and misery
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Offlinestzacrack
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19062239 - 10/31/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Anyone feel like making some money in NYC selling untaxed cigarettes?
If we don't use the chance, someone else will.




this is too easy.

buy cigarettes pennsylvania for 5 dollars a pack

sell in nyc for 9 dollars a pack

just as good as sellin dope!


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062248 - 10/31/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
You are surely right.

On a serious note, this is absolutely ridiculous. This just criminalizes people unnecessarily and creates a black market.
Why can't we treat the psychoactive substances market like - well, err, adults?




They're not adults though, they pretty much fail to meet expectations and trash everything they come into contact with.

It's the same with alcohol people are supposed to be learning to drive at that age.

It's probably better off in the long run they don't sell to people that age is what I'm saying




Actually in america we learn to drive at 15 not 18. Raising the age requirements doesn't help anything. As you can see nearly every single college kid drinks their liver to shit on a weekend basis and only 1/4-2/5 of them are legal age.

Even if people did abstain til they were 21 it's not going to stop them from becoming smokers then the same way it doesn't stop them from becoming smokers at 18. For most people 18-21 is the transition time in which they learn to smoke, and then learn that it's affecting them and quick. That's a process people need to go through for themselves, not be taught by legislature.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: cycline]
    #19062253 - 10/31/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about all the 18-20 year olds that still smoke?  If you think they are going to quit you are retards.  This is going to create a market of people trying to get cigarettes when they are underage.  People are going to have to come to NJ or Long Island to buy smokes, which are already cheaper.  NYC is going to lose a lot of revenue...


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: fapjack]
    #19062311 - 10/31/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Smokers cost a lot of revenue

They all get sick and die with complications

it's just not worth it to have smokers around, they account for like a fifth of the deaths every year

and second hand smoke kills almost as many people as car accidents and we all know how safe cars are.


Edited by Konyap (10/31/13 09:06 AM)


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap] * 2
    #19062344 - 10/31/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Smokers die younger and collect less SS, and everyone dies one way or another.  Death is often expensive if it isn't sudden.  Also, smokers pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year.  If someone smokes their entire life they can easily end up spending an extra $50-100k on taxes.  As for the second hand smoke, I think they pull that # out of their ass.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: fapjack]
    #19062360 - 10/31/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Smokers die younger and collect less SS, and everyone dies one way or another.  Death is often expensive if it isn't sudden.  Also, smokers pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year.  If someone smokes their entire life they can easily end up spending an extra $50-100k on taxes.  As for the second hand smoke, I think they pull that # out of their ass.




Elaborate how big brother makes smokers pay 50k in taxes please


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062370 - 10/31/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just thank all the Libs\Democrats!!    Libs don't want free choice, they want to tell YOU how to live and what choices YOU should make

:themoreyouknow:

Keep electing Libs and it will never change. One reason why NYC has less that 10 days worth of money left.


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Offlineafrogus
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19062440 - 10/31/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
Quote:

fapjack said:
Smokers die younger and collect less SS, and everyone dies one way or another.  Death is often expensive if it isn't sudden.  Also, smokers pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year.  If someone smokes their entire life they can easily end up spending an extra $50-100k on taxes.  As for the second hand smoke, I think they pull that # out of their ass.




Elaborate how big brother makes smokers pay 50k in taxes please




It's a well known fact that smokers cost the government and its people tens of millions if not more in health care costs alone.  WE the people end up paying for that because MOST smokers are of a lower socio-economic status and are not insured or under insured. 

Economic Costs Associated With Smoking*

    During 2000–2004, cigarette smoking was estimated to be responsible for $193 billion in annual health-related economic losses in the United States (nearly $96 billion in direct medical costs and an additional $97 billion in lost productivity).4
    Cigarette smoking results in 5.1 million years of potential life lost in the United States annually.4


Effects of Increased Prices

Increases in cigarette prices lead to significant reductions in cigarette smoking.11

    A 10% increase in price has been estimated to reduce overall cigarette consumption by 3–5%.
    Research on cigarette consumption among youth suggests that both youth and young adults are two to three times more responsive to change in price as adults.


*Updated information will be available in 2014.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/economics/econ_facts/#costs


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: afrogus]
    #19062934 - 10/31/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i actually like the idea, because there are a lot of 18 year olds in HS that can buy smokes for the other kids, but not so many 21 year olds


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Offlinepartythug
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: B_BOY]
    #19063057 - 10/31/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wait... Isn't Bloomberg a Republican? :eek:


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InvisibleB_BOY
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: partythug]
    #19063076 - 10/31/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not really, he was a Democrat, then switched so he could get elected, then switched again so he could get re-elected. 7th richest guy in america and 13 in the world.


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: partythug]
    #19063118 - 10/31/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Don't you guys see it? All this war on drugs bullshit is never going to stop as long as we somehow think that users of one substance are better or worse than users of another one.
Seriously put a reasonable tax on it, add a package insert to whatever drug you're selling and make everyone get health insurance.

These prices primarily hurt the poor and guess what - they're not going to stop smoking. Most of the time, they either switch to alternatives (e.g. rolling own cigarettes) or they buy them illegally. Either way, they are going to spend a shitload on cigarettes and it is not going to decrease poverty. And guess who's not going to go to College then? Guess who's going to get poorer and who's going to get richer? Guess who is going to pay for this kinda shit at the end of the day?

You don't need to be a smoker to see that this kind of stuff is bullshit and creates more problems than there are to begin with.
Btw, I don't smoke, but I have seen this kinda shit happening with the illegal drugs and it will also happen with tobacco if we continue to go down that route.


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OfflineMeinDarkEye
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #19063521 - 10/31/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is why people buy smokes on the Indian reservations these days and the gas stations/stores in town aren't selling crap in tobacco.  People are sick of being priced gouged.

Reservation stores let you smoke in the stores and hell they even give you samples of smokes if you want.  Prices also are more in line with rest of the US compared to the 8+ dollars a pack just for smokes with a "brand name" on them.


--------------------
Why can't you be normal!
What you mean to say is, Average.

What's the pride in country if it robs a man of will?
What's the pride in manhood if a man will rape and kill?
What's the pride in killing if the dead will rise again?
Ah, but there's a pride in knowing the enemies within.


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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: hidenseek1]
    #19064353 - 10/31/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

hidenseek1 said:
i actually like the idea, because there are a lot of 18 year olds in HS that can buy smokes for the other kids, but not so many 21 year olds




The age was already 19 in Long Island, so that was pretty much taken care of with the last law. I was able to understand it then because of what you say. A senior in HS could always buy tobacco for underclassmen. But I think it is ridiculous to think that you need to graduate college (or be of that age) to buy cigarettes. The law does not affect me one bit, but it is to say that someone who is capable of voting, going to war, paying taxes, serving on a jury and living by themselves is not capable of making a decision about their own body.

We can argue about the costs, but I value personal freedom above all of that. We can argue about cost when it's something that costs us that we do not benefit from. But what if it were something you valued? There will always be some reason to take away rights. If we eliminate everything that has a downside, we will soon be left with nothing. If we worry about the cost to us about something we do not care about, what about the things that are important to us that may not be important to others?  I am willing to share some of the costs and burdens of what freedoms are important to others so we can all be free. Instead of taking away right, why not looking for a different solution?

We know that healthcare costs can be a burden to non-smokers. I personally don't want to pay for all these extra health bills. But I am willing to if it allows people to be free, and it means they would stand up for my freedoms in the same way. Nationwide, data is still showing it to be an expense. But cigarettes are very cheap in many states. But the law is in Ny where the city taxes are probably the highest in the nation. The tax is more than the cost of cigarettes. If that money is truly allocated to health, then that should certainly be enough to offset the costs. Maybe it won't pay for it completely, but it will certainly offset it significantly. And we can always consider other types of policy instead of the ever-popular ban....which we do know does cause black markets. I suppose black market cigarettes will come from somewhere and so taxes will be paid somewhere, but Ny certainly won;t be getting anything for those smokers. I can't say I have all the data, but it seems like there's a lot of variables to say that the economic benefits are probably not worth the costs of overall freedom.

Another thing is that Bloomberg seems to indicate that people are less likely to become addicted if they start at a a later age. But the science of addiction clearly shows that addiction can start at any age. No person, of any particular sex, race, age, enthnicity is immune from it. You may have smokers that are not smoking all their lives, but I don't think their age reduces their affinity for addiction. A lot of the is genetics as well.

I guess we will see how it plays out. But I just would like to see other types of solutions instead of prohibition. We've operated all these years being allowed to do certain things. I don;t see the need for revision now.


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OfflineMushyMatt
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: CannabiForMen]
    #19064694 - 10/31/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

CannabiForMen said:
All this is going to do is make Internet bulk cigarette companies rich. I can't see that lasting.



You cannot buy tobacco online in the US. Obama passed a law on it.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
    #19066231 - 10/31/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Illyabo said:
Smokers cost a lot of revenue

They all get sick and die with complications

it's just not worth it to have smokers around, they account for like a fifth of the deaths every year

and second hand smoke kills almost as many people as car accidents and we all know how safe cars are.



It came up when the tobacco companies settled with the state attorney generals that ciggerettes actually save taxpayer money. The reason is that they kill off people who woiuld otherwise be collecting pensions and benefits for an extra 30 years.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19068764 - 11/01/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

.


Edited by Konyap (11/01/13 07:58 AM)


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InvisibleSynthe
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Registered: 11/10/12
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: fapjack]
    #19076188 - 11/02/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This isn't completely pointless. Lets be honest here - 21-year-olds are much less likely to get hooked on smokes than 18-year-olds.

However, I must agree with fapjack on the following:

Quote:

fapjack said:
What about all the 18-20 year olds that still smoke?  If you think they are going to quit you are retards.  This is going to create a market of people trying to get cigarettes when they are underage.  People are going to have to come to NJ or Long Island to buy smokes, which are already cheaper.  NYC is going to lose a lot of revenue...




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