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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: cycline]
#19062253 - 10/31/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What about all the 18-20 year olds that still smoke? If you think they are going to quit you are retards. This is going to create a market of people trying to get cigarettes when they are underage. People are going to have to come to NJ or Long Island to buy smokes, which are already cheaper. NYC is going to lose a lot of revenue...
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: fapjack]
#19062311 - 10/31/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Smokers cost a lot of revenue
They all get sick and die with complications
it's just not worth it to have smokers around, they account for like a fifth of the deaths every year
and second hand smoke kills almost as many people as car accidents and we all know how safe cars are.
Edited by Konyap (10/31/13 09:06 AM)
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fapjack
Title



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap] 2
#19062344 - 10/31/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Smokers die younger and collect less SS, and everyone dies one way or another. Death is often expensive if it isn't sudden. Also, smokers pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year. If someone smokes their entire life they can easily end up spending an extra $50-100k on taxes. As for the second hand smoke, I think they pull that # out of their ass.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: fapjack]
#19062360 - 10/31/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: Smokers die younger and collect less SS, and everyone dies one way or another. Death is often expensive if it isn't sudden. Also, smokers pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year. If someone smokes their entire life they can easily end up spending an extra $50-100k on taxes. As for the second hand smoke, I think they pull that # out of their ass.
Elaborate how big brother makes smokers pay 50k in taxes please
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B_BOY
Phuck Ewe



Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2,819
Loc: O
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
#19062370 - 10/31/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just thank all the Libs\Democrats!! Libs don't want free choice, they want to tell YOU how to live and what choices YOU should make

Keep electing Libs and it will never change. One reason why NYC has less that 10 days worth of money left.
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afrogus
hombre



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
#19062440 - 10/31/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Illyabo said:
Quote:
fapjack said: Smokers die younger and collect less SS, and everyone dies one way or another. Death is often expensive if it isn't sudden. Also, smokers pay thousands of dollars in extra taxes each year. If someone smokes their entire life they can easily end up spending an extra $50-100k on taxes. As for the second hand smoke, I think they pull that # out of their ass.
Elaborate how big brother makes smokers pay 50k in taxes please
It's a well known fact that smokers cost the government and its people tens of millions if not more in health care costs alone. WE the people end up paying for that because MOST smokers are of a lower socio-economic status and are not insured or under insured.
Economic Costs Associated With Smoking*
During 2000–2004, cigarette smoking was estimated to be responsible for $193 billion in annual health-related economic losses in the United States (nearly $96 billion in direct medical costs and an additional $97 billion in lost productivity).4 Cigarette smoking results in 5.1 million years of potential life lost in the United States annually.4
Effects of Increased Prices
Increases in cigarette prices lead to significant reductions in cigarette smoking.11
A 10% increase in price has been estimated to reduce overall cigarette consumption by 3–5%. Research on cigarette consumption among youth suggests that both youth and young adults are two to three times more responsive to change in price as adults.
*Updated information will be available in 2014.
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/economics/econ_facts/#costs
-------------------- "Leave no turn unstoned":)
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hidenseek1
Its got all the dinks.
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: afrogus]
#19062934 - 10/31/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i actually like the idea, because there are a lot of 18 year olds in HS that can buy smokes for the other kids, but not so many 21 year olds
-------------------- You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right -------------------------------------------------------------------------- pons asinorum -------------------------------------------------------------------------- lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever
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partythug
Your Private Dancer


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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: B_BOY]
#19063057 - 10/31/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wait... Isn't Bloomberg a Republican?
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B_BOY
Phuck Ewe



Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 2,819
Loc: O
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: partythug]
#19063076 - 10/31/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not really, he was a Democrat, then switched so he could get elected, then switched again so he could get re-elected. 7th richest guy in america and 13 in the world.
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: partythug]
#19063118 - 10/31/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't you guys see it? All this war on drugs bullshit is never going to stop as long as we somehow think that users of one substance are better or worse than users of another one. Seriously put a reasonable tax on it, add a package insert to whatever drug you're selling and make everyone get health insurance.
These prices primarily hurt the poor and guess what - they're not going to stop smoking. Most of the time, they either switch to alternatives (e.g. rolling own cigarettes) or they buy them illegally. Either way, they are going to spend a shitload on cigarettes and it is not going to decrease poverty. And guess who's not going to go to College then? Guess who's going to get poorer and who's going to get richer? Guess who is going to pay for this kinda shit at the end of the day?
You don't need to be a smoker to see that this kind of stuff is bullshit and creates more problems than there are to begin with. Btw, I don't smoke, but I have seen this kinda shit happening with the illegal drugs and it will also happen with tobacco if we continue to go down that route.
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MeinDarkEye



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19063521 - 10/31/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is why people buy smokes on the Indian reservations these days and the gas stations/stores in town aren't selling crap in tobacco. People are sick of being priced gouged.
Reservation stores let you smoke in the stores and hell they even give you samples of smokes if you want. Prices also are more in line with rest of the US compared to the 8+ dollars a pack just for smokes with a "brand name" on them.
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Why can't you be normal! What you mean to say is, Average. What's the pride in country if it robs a man of will? What's the pride in manhood if a man will rape and kill? What's the pride in killing if the dead will rise again? Ah, but there's a pride in knowing the enemies within.
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World Seed Supply
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: hidenseek1]
#19064353 - 10/31/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek1 said: i actually like the idea, because there are a lot of 18 year olds in HS that can buy smokes for the other kids, but not so many 21 year olds
The age was already 19 in Long Island, so that was pretty much taken care of with the last law. I was able to understand it then because of what you say. A senior in HS could always buy tobacco for underclassmen. But I think it is ridiculous to think that you need to graduate college (or be of that age) to buy cigarettes. The law does not affect me one bit, but it is to say that someone who is capable of voting, going to war, paying taxes, serving on a jury and living by themselves is not capable of making a decision about their own body.
We can argue about the costs, but I value personal freedom above all of that. We can argue about cost when it's something that costs us that we do not benefit from. But what if it were something you valued? There will always be some reason to take away rights. If we eliminate everything that has a downside, we will soon be left with nothing. If we worry about the cost to us about something we do not care about, what about the things that are important to us that may not be important to others? I am willing to share some of the costs and burdens of what freedoms are important to others so we can all be free. Instead of taking away right, why not looking for a different solution?
We know that healthcare costs can be a burden to non-smokers. I personally don't want to pay for all these extra health bills. But I am willing to if it allows people to be free, and it means they would stand up for my freedoms in the same way. Nationwide, data is still showing it to be an expense. But cigarettes are very cheap in many states. But the law is in Ny where the city taxes are probably the highest in the nation. The tax is more than the cost of cigarettes. If that money is truly allocated to health, then that should certainly be enough to offset the costs. Maybe it won't pay for it completely, but it will certainly offset it significantly. And we can always consider other types of policy instead of the ever-popular ban....which we do know does cause black markets. I suppose black market cigarettes will come from somewhere and so taxes will be paid somewhere, but Ny certainly won;t be getting anything for those smokers. I can't say I have all the data, but it seems like there's a lot of variables to say that the economic benefits are probably not worth the costs of overall freedom.
Another thing is that Bloomberg seems to indicate that people are less likely to become addicted if they start at a a later age. But the science of addiction clearly shows that addiction can start at any age. No person, of any particular sex, race, age, enthnicity is immune from it. You may have smokers that are not smoking all their lives, but I don't think their age reduces their affinity for addiction. A lot of the is genetics as well.
I guess we will see how it plays out. But I just would like to see other types of solutions instead of prohibition. We've operated all these years being allowed to do certain things. I don;t see the need for revision now.
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MushyMatt
LSD-25



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: CannabiForMen]
#19064694 - 10/31/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CannabiForMen said: All this is going to do is make Internet bulk cigarette companies rich. I can't see that lasting.
You cannot buy tobacco online in the US. Obama passed a law on it.
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Reborn - 6/08/13
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Konyap]
#19066231 - 10/31/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Illyabo said: Smokers cost a lot of revenue
They all get sick and die with complications
it's just not worth it to have smokers around, they account for like a fifth of the deaths every year
and second hand smoke kills almost as many people as car accidents and we all know how safe cars are.
It came up when the tobacco companies settled with the state attorney generals that ciggerettes actually save taxpayer money. The reason is that they kill off people who woiuld otherwise be collecting pensions and benefits for an extra 30 years.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19068764 - 11/01/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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.
Edited by Konyap (11/01/13 07:58 AM)
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!



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Re: New York Raising Age to Buy Cigarettes to 21 [Re: fapjack]
#19076188 - 11/02/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This isn't completely pointless. Lets be honest here - 21-year-olds are much less likely to get hooked on smokes than 18-year-olds.
However, I must agree with fapjack on the following:
Quote:
fapjack said: What about all the 18-20 year olds that still smoke? If you think they are going to quit you are retards. This is going to create a market of people trying to get cigarettes when they are underage. People are going to have to come to NJ or Long Island to buy smokes, which are already cheaper. NYC is going to lose a lot of revenue...
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