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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: z@z.com]
    #1916280 - 09/14/03 06:39 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"We give third world countries money. Constantly. They do not owe us money. "

first off all the US gives the least, out of the western counries as far as I remember , (until this bush africa thing)

but do you know what the IMF is ,or the WORLD BANK, www.corpwath.org

do you have any idea the HUGE ammount of debt that countries owe the US(which by the way unlike other countries , owns 51% of the WORLDbank,and PROFITS from the sour milk that sick cow keeps giving to countries!)

alot of these debts were lent to dictators, and after the country becomes a democracy(or whatever.....something alot better)
the debt stays

did you ever wonder why that little flammer BONO from U2 is always saying "drop the debt"

theres a reason for that


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Edited by Psilocybeingzz (09/14/03 06:41 PM)

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1916359 - 09/14/03 07:09 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Oh...you are saying that US companies are owed money?
If that is the case it is not the governments responsobility or problem at all but rather the company and the borrower.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: z@z.com]
    #1916447 - 09/14/03 07:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

well BANKS

and the US government owns 51% of the world bank, like I said, they profit from the milk this SICK cow gives

peace
psilocybeing


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: z@z.com]
    #1916448 - 09/14/03 07:40 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

well BANKS

and the US government owns 51% of the world bank, like I said, they profit from the milk this SICK cow gives

peace
psilocybeing


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 20 years, 3 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1916463 - 09/14/03 07:46 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

psilo- Sorry about this, you are a complete fool. I respect anyones differing opinion, but only to the extend that htey can back it up with facts and logic. You consistently fail to do so.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: lysergic]
    #1916521 - 09/14/03 08:04 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

OK
www.corpwath.org


go read for awhile, read about the IMF , world bank WTO and maybe about globalization as a whole

then you GET back to ME


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1916524 - 09/14/03 08:05 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

LOL you gave the wrong link twice in the same thread. Try www.corpwatch.org


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1916601 - 09/14/03 08:36 PM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Psilocybeingzz writes:

first off all the US gives the least, out of the western counries as far as I remember , (until this bush africa thing)

Incorrect. The American government gives the most, by far, of all the countries in the world, not just of the Western nations. And that refers only to official US government foreign aid, the kind that is paid for by tax dollars. When you add in the private donations, the total is even larger. Private donations from US citizens alone total more than any other single country's governmental aid.

This is a discussion board, and as such it is to be expected that a lot of people will express their opinions. But I suggest you try not to state as fact things that are not only contrary to common knowledge, but can be easily checked with a sixty second Google search. You do your argument a disservice by being sloppy with facts.

pinky


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Phred]
    #1917155 - 09/15/03 12:08 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"You do your argument a disservice by being sloppy with facts."

there is NO way that the US gave the most!!!!!
and if wrong I will admit it


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Phred]
    #1917164 - 09/15/03 12:11 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Pink,

Just because we give the most money doesnt mean we give the "most". We are the most wealthy nation in the world.

Does anyone know the percentages of our wealth opposed to the percentages that lower grossing countries give?


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
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Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1917173 - 09/15/03 12:13 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"The U.S. being the wealthiest, strongest and most influential nation, it is worth seeing how their actions or inaction affect other nations. One notable area is regarding the issue of debt and poverty. Being a major part of the International Monetary Fund, World Bank and even helping to formulate the United Nations over 50 years ago, their actions can be felt around the world.

For example, many around the world have, for many years, criticized the U.S. for cutting back on its promised obligations and responsibilities, and furthermore, when it has provided aid, that it has been tied to its own foreign policy objectives."



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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1917185 - 09/15/03 12:16 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said:
For example, many around the world have, for many years, criticized the U.S. for cutting back on its promised obligations and responsibilities, and furthermore, when it has provided aid, that it has been tied to its own foreign policy objectives.




Sounds like a good plan to me. Why should we do anything that doesn't help us?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: z@z.com]
    #1917188 - 09/15/03 12:17 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"William Rees, an urban planner at the University of British Columbia, estimated that it requires four to six hectares of land to maintain the consumption level of the average person from a high-consumption country. The problem is that in 1990, worldwide there were only 1.7 hectares of ecologically productive land for each person. He concluded that the deficit is made up in core countries by drawing down the natural resources of their own countries and expropriating the resources, through trade, of peripheral countries. In other words, someone has to pay for our consumption levels. [Emphasis Added]



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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1917201 - 09/15/03 12:22 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Can we get a link? A small snippit from an article can hardly be considered as a compelling argument.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: ]
    #1917208 - 09/15/03 12:24 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Mr. Mushrooms,

You do it out of choice.. not nessecity. I'd imagine, atleast. Someone said earlier in this thread that people will always want more. But there are many of us out there that are only more then happy to make due quite well and more fullfillingly with less.

GW and I just went through a cleansing of all non nessecities in life and I admit, I did hang on to a bit too much in clothes.. We consolidated a 3 bedroom house brimming with things into a 4 x 6 uhaul trailer. I feel so much lighter. It isnt that I dont have money to buy things.. it isnt that I dont see all kinds of nifty new gadgets and gizmos that pique my attention...

I just know that I cant take it with me and that all it does is fuel consumerism and greed and essentially takes me away from the beautiful free simple pleasures in life. I find infinate satisfaction in finding a great garage sale or thrift store find. Im proud as punch that I recycled those old potatoes that were lurking in the depths of my pantry into a garden in my back yard. I love that old scratched and dented futon that we spent hours sanding by hand and staining into a beautiful piece of furniture that someone had thought was junk.

I thank God every day that these small things can bring me so much pleasure because it allows me to be constantly ecstatic.


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1917332 - 09/15/03 01:54 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

globalissues.org!!


"Sounds like a good plan to me. Why should we do anything that doesn't help us?"

well if its murder or the theft of someones land, or say something more simple BUT sick the SAP's well thats ok?????

if you think it is ..........well then you sir might be a good candidate for suicide!


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OfflineRhizoid
carbon unit
Male

Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1917470 - 09/15/03 05:12 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Does anyone know the percentages of our wealth opposed to the percentages that lower grossing countries give?



That would be "most per capita" instead of just "most".

If we are talking about individual per capita shares here, it's allowed for an individual to give more than the average statistical share. Many people choose to do this voluntarily.

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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: z@z.com]
    #1917831 - 09/15/03 10:26 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

We give third world countries money. Constantly. They do not owe us money.

For every ?1.00 that the industrialised world donates in aid to the Third World it receives ?3.00 back in debt repayments.

http://www.theopenmind.org.uk/responsibility/debt.html


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #1917894 - 09/15/03 11:02 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybeingzz said:
"Sounds like a good plan to me. Why should we do anything that doesn't help us?"

well if its murder or the theft of someones land, or say something more simple BUT sick the SAP's well thats ok?????

if you think it is ..........well then you sir might be a good candidate for suicide!



PLEASE RESPOND TO THE CORRECT POST!!! YOU NOT DOING SO IS GETTING ANNOYING.

I said we should only do things in our best interest. I did not say we should do everything that will help us no matter what the consequences are for others. There is a big difference between not giving people handouts and killing them. Don't put words in my mouth.



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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Problems with Materialism [Re: z@z.com]
    #1917927 - 09/15/03 11:24 AM (20 years, 6 months ago)

"We should only do things in our best interest"

Who is "we"?
Is "we" the United States, or is it humanity.
Please clarify yourself and explain why one is more important than the other.


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"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

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