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 manna_man
High onlife.....andcrack
Registered: 06/10/03
Posts: 481
Loc: Vancouver
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 Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun 
#1903845 - 09/11/03 01:10 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Now, now...before you guys start flaming away, just hear me out for a bit. I am quite the avid drug user; I toke often enough, mushroom trips, etc. and am not against using drugs at all. However, one time while quite stoned, I started to think about the whole drug issue from the other perspective: The people who are anti-drug and would never touch anything that would alter their state of mind "unnaturally". My best friend falls into this category. Anyways, I started questioning myself: "why do I do drugs? Why is using drugs becoming more and more popular?"
Well, every human being has the desire to alter his/her state of mind, in one way or another. We naturally take enjoyment from experiencing a change in our every day reality, and this can be acheived through drugs, aswell as meditation, dreaming, etc. All of these produce an "altered state" that we are not quite familiar with and often enjoy exploring.
Then what is a drug? It is a key to this altered state that can provide us with answers, questions, and new experiences. Some claim to have profound "realizations" when on, for example, DXM, or LSD. Are these drugs the only way to acheive these results? Meditation or simple deep thought can lead us on the same path. The difference between the two is that one requires MUCH less effort than the other. Simply consume the various substance and there you have your altered state of mind ready to be explored. It seems as though drugs are "the quick fix" in terms of seeking knowledge; You want an answer? Do a few tabs. Not sure you know yourself well enough? Eat some mushrooms. It's like a diet pill for an overweight person who doesn't want to go through the trouble of excercizing(sp). Or a runner who takes a cab to the finish line.
Of course I'm not talking about all drugs here. People who use mushrooms have different reasons for doing them than people who do crack or heroin. And everyone does drugs for their own reasons: Some like the intense spiritual quests whereas others just like the visuals and the relaxation. Yet for the ones who do them for MORE than shits and giggles, there are still other ways, although they may be more time consuming,that provide the same(or close to the same) results.
Remeber, I'm not against drugs at all. Just stepping back and looking at it from the other perspective.
Let the flaming begin.... 
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This post is protected under copyrite law.All above content is strictly the property of ?manna_man.Any infringement of copyright property is strictly prohibited.Any violators will be stretched, shot, and then vaporized into a state of anti-matter, where they will cease to exist.
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Infrared
sleeping
 
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 12,988
Loc: Chicago, USA
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 Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: manna_man]
#1903923 - 09/11/03 01:42 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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i dont really understand your point of this, its just kinda of a trailing off rant about drug use and modern culture.
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When chemistry is outlawed.. Only outlaws have chemistry
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 Lallafa
p_g monocle
Registered: 04/13/01
Posts: 2,598
Loc: underbelly 
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: manna_man]
#1903945 - 09/11/03 01:52 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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my tax dollars going to more hits of acid for charles manson
Edited by Lallafa (09/19/03 05:40 PM)
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Laxy
member
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Lallafa]
#1903954 - 09/11/03 01:59 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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You said it yourself man, people take drugs for their own reasons. The only way you can understand a person's position is to be in their position. Otherwise, fuck off. Drugs make you act/think/etc. in ways that you normally don't. How is a quick fix man? Maybe drugs are a quick fix. However, drugs can show you the way, only YOU can get yourself there. They are like morpheus, they can only show you the way, from what you do from there on its all you baby.
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PDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Lallafa]
#1903971 - 09/11/03 02:05 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I dont think many people in this forum will disagree with you that Entheogens/psychedelic's are "the easy way."
However, i wouldnt say people are cheating....this is a product of the social system, WE DONT have time to ponder life sitting in a monastary in seclusion for years to get our enlightenment. Psychedelic's in our society are our functional way of bettering our mindscapes. I cant think of a better example, than of chinacat talking about *getting where he needs to go* with mushrooms and a hit of dmt at the peak a couple time's a year, because he cant go off on huge LSD trips because he has a family to take care of and a life to maintain (university, work, other responsibilities)..If one cant even escape reality to be *enlightened* for just a couple days, it's way too much to expect for people to meditate/exhaust/dance/think their way to enlightenment.
Also, something to think about; Entheogen's were used as *spiritual tools* (in conjunction with ceremonies integrating exhaustion, dancing, etc) far before people were meditating themselves to the same state...
So whose to say which is a more valid route to enlightenment...
You can earn it by meditating (sitting in room for long periods of time doing nothing with your life). Or you can Live life (physically earning your experience through the responsibility you tend to) and take the short cut.
Which is more valid....the latter almost seems more logical, huh?
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GO OUTSIDE.
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Spokesman
The HighPhilosopher
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: PDU]
#1904073 - 09/11/03 02:58 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well what you are saying is true, but it doesent necesseraly makes drug use wrong. Timothy Leary himself said that it is nearly impossible for us to reach the same "higher conciousness" we used to be able to reach via meditation. Because of all the chaos and technology around us in modern day. We have been poluted with so much media, advertisments and so much crap that this state is nearly imposible through simple meditation anymore, and that drugs have become our gateway. Does that make it wrong? No, anything we consume affects our bodies. Think about the Native Americans what we now know as drugs back then was part of their daily diet and religious rituals. The Egyptians the Myans they all prepared foods that contained Psycoactive chemicals. If you eat chocolate and get slight feeling of euphoria becouse of the chemials in chocolate is that a quick fix? No, neither is sitting back looking at the stars and pondering about the universe while smoking a joint. Its all in how you look at it really. This is a good thread because it is something every intelegent drug user ponders on once in a while.
Do you drive? Sure you can walk to where you have to go but isn't using a car so necessary nowadays???
*EDIT* Sorry, responding to manna man not PDU.
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Edited by Spokesman (09/11/03 04:53 AM)
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Spokesman]
#1904464 - 09/11/03 07:12 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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depends on the mindstate of the person. I know a couple of my friends just like to get "fucked up" and when I try to speak of maybe a higher conscious they judge and called me crazy for thinking about shit like that. I used to be an athiest and I've had many religions thrown in my face, as we all have experienced from time to time, but I tried drugs and now i now longer hold that title to myself. I was definately in the mood to learn and so I did, as I'm still doing now. besides when the high is gone, the learning can still continue, if you want it to.
All I know for sure is that I have improved my happiness around me by 1000% because of the insights I recieved because of drugs.
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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Quintessence
I am Hydrogen
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: kaiowas]
#1904625 - 09/11/03 08:21 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Call me Sammy sosa 
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Help on the Way
Slipknot420
Registered: 08/12/00
Posts: 2,893
Loc: Another World
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Quintessence]
#1904667 - 09/11/03 08:41 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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LOL!!! 
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 *Divine Moments of Truth*
"Limitless undying love which shines around me like a million suns - it calls me on and on across the universe" ~ John Lennon
"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right" ~The Grateful Dead
"Religionists, with their guaranteed eventual paradise, of which they know nothing, taking it all on 'faith,' can't be expected to understand or sympathize with those with a yen to storm the Gate of Heaven and see for themselves what all the praying's about!" ~Robert Hunter
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Anonymous
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Spokesman]
#1904687 - 09/11/03 08:50 AM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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it is nearly impossible for us to reach the same "higher conciousness" we used to be able to reach via meditation. Because of all the chaos and technology around us in modern day. We have been poluted with so much media, advertisments and so much crap that this state is nearly imposible through simple meditation anymore
what a cop-out.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: ]
#1905156 - 09/11/03 12:08 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are a lot of people out there that dont "need" drugs to have a good time.
They are perfectly content going through life sober and experiencing life that way.
I used to be envious of those people in the same way that I was envious of the ignorant and stupid because they never had to bother with these complex political and philosophical realities.
Then I realized how black and white, how simple and one dimensional these people's lives and perspectives are. Of course, you have the occaisional hyper intelligent person that doesnt use drugs and still sees the complexity of the world, but these are few and far between. The majority of these "straight edgers" are conformist, narrowminded simpletons who will never see in color.
I'll take my dope, stress, philosophical trauma, paralyzing confusion, and multidimensional perspective over the simple life of sobriety any day.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: DoctorJ]
#1905261 - 09/11/03 12:30 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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We are all different people living different lives.. Whatever we decide to do with our lives is equally valid, as there is no right way to do anything.. I believe that the only stipulation is that one shouldn't really interfere with others free will..
Some people take drugs because they think it makes them cool or it makes them fit in. That's fine, because that's where they are at. If you take it to zone out and escape, for you, that's fine. If you take it to seek some sort of higher truth, experience something that you have not yet experienced, to quiet your mind and reach some sort of balance, or just because it is just another experience that this world and this life have to offer you, then that's fine.
As long as you aren't forcing others onto your beliefs and actions, then so what? We all have the choice, and only you can make that choice..
Peace.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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Anonymous
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: DoctorJ]
#1905595 - 09/11/03 01:26 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
There are a lot of people out there that dont "need" drugs to have a good time.
They are perfectly content going through life sober and experiencing life that way.
I used to be envious of those people in the same way that I was envious of the ignorant and stupid because they never had to bother with these complex political and philosophical realities.
Then I realized how black and white, how simple and one dimensional these people's lives and perspectives are. Of course, you have the occaisional hyper intelligent person that doesnt use drugs and still sees the complexity of the world, but these are few and far between. The majority of these "straight edgers" are conformist, narrowminded simpletons who will never see in color.
I'll take my dope, stress, philosophical trauma, paralyzing confusion, and multidimensional perspective over the simple life of sobriety any day.
a judgmental, presumptuous, and very depressing (but all too common) psychedelic holier-than-thou attitude.
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Rastafari
Stranger
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: ]
#1905637 - 09/11/03 01:32 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with what you are saying... (the 1st post) I have met some people who utilize mushrooms as a main part of their spiritual quest and I ask myself sometimes if that is not a quick-fix type thing as well
spirituality and understanding, definitely takes effort...and so often we want to gain knowledge without putting in effort
I think of myself as experimenting with drugs, but I know the true knowledge exists within myself
effort is definitely needed to remove our selfishness and ego in this society
Theres nothing wrong with doing drugs and stuff for some understanding... but I think that you cant eat drugs all day everyday, and you should try to understand all day everyday if you wish to free yourself from suffering... so self inquiry is the best drug
I also beleive selfless love (aka divine love and light)
is the most potent drug and is accessable without physical substances, making it a very rare and prized herb that grows within the core of our beings.
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I&I
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: manna_man]
#1905683 - 09/11/03 01:39 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Meditation or simple deep thought can lead us on the same path."
A lot of people would disagree with this claim.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Rastafari
Stranger
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Strumpling]
#1905715 - 09/11/03 01:43 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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alot of those people probably cringe at the idea of self effort
this understanding the mushroom eaters claim they get, would not be possible without "meditation" while on these substances
I dont think that every man was born to eat mushrooms and gain his knowledge in that way...infact I think everyones path is different although it may be to the same destination...
Effort is definitely valuable in a society where laziness and materialism is promoted constantly.
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I&I
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Shadesofgray
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Rastafari]
#1905729 - 09/11/03 01:45 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nicely said ,rastafari.
Drugs have pointed the way for me. They helped me to quit asking some of the questions that were driving me crazy. They didn't provide me with any answers, just more reasonable and relevant questions. I don't believe drugs will take me any further.
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DoctorJ
Registered: 06/30/03
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Loc: space
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: Rastafari]
#1905736 - 09/11/03 01:46 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
a judgmental, presumptuous, and very depressing (but all too common) psychedelic holier-than-thou attitude.
you're right. I admit it.
but keep in mind that my attitude is a defense mechanism for all the sober people who constantly try to cram their way of life down my throat.
I'm not cramming anything down anyone's throat.
I know a lot of people who don't use drugs and thats fine with me. But sometimes I cant help but think that these people would greatly benfit from a level 5. And it saddens me that they are too afraid or closeminded to grant themselves this privelege.
I dont think I'm better than them. I just wish they would do better for themselves.
Shit, I'm lucky- I grew up in a very openminded family. When I first tried drugs, I didnt have many social barriers or preconcieved neagative notions to overcome. Not everyone has this privelege and too many people get corrupted by their parents or the system before they are ever given a chance to make their own choice.
These people will never know what its like to feel your car ripple around you as the street melts and the tailpipes spew magenta smoke into a candy colored sky. Its sad, but its not their fault. I certainly wouldn't think any less of them anymore than I would think less of a starving african child. But from a purely objective viewpoint, one of us is clearly more capable than the other. This is not an egotistical assertion, it is simply a grim recognition of reality.
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Rastafari
Stranger
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: DoctorJ]
#1905749 - 09/11/03 01:49 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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dont drive and shroom you might crash 
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I&I
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Shadesofgray
Stranger
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Re: Using drugs is a cheater's way to have fun [Re: DoctorJ]
#1905764 - 09/11/03 01:51 PM (20 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with alot of what you say doc, but how does hallucinating make you more capable?
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