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resourcefulop94
Stranger


Registered: 12/08/12
Posts: 15
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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DMT cyan garden?
#19055035 - 10/29/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Knowing that DMT and psilocybin's chemical structure are extremely similar, has anyone thought about or grown cyans with some DMT containing tree bark such as Mimosa Hostilis? Would this even be possible?
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resourcefulop94
Stranger


Registered: 12/08/12
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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anyone?
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fatchillin
Wanderer



Registered: 10/24/11
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Loc: pNw
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i wonder if MHRB or ACRB are hardwoods or not.. if they are, ill give it a try with some ovoid spawn i have. lol.
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
Loc: South East USA
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what...would be the point???
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
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Global_Roaming
purity of essence



Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
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Sounds dubious - why not just extract the DMT and administer alongside the cyans?
-------------------- /peace out brothers and sisters

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Jot


Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 1,194
Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Welp, uh could there be no type of biological integration of sorts
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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saralove



Registered: 10/01/13
Posts: 1,068
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.
Edited by saralove (09/08/16 01:05 AM)
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Psychonaut6
Stranger


Registered: 10/29/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Jot]
#19059134 - 10/30/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well fungi do feed on cellulose. Doubtful that tour fungi would absorb DMT from mimosa, but sounds like a cool experiment. It could make a difference on some spiritual invisible matrix plane that we have no idea about. However not sure cyans would digest such cellulose since the are from two different regions of the globe. But that's life... the continuous mixing and homogenizing of materials.
if you got the time go for it, and let me know your results
Psychonaut6
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thelorax121
Stranger

Registered: 10/12/05
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There is plenty of scientific literature on the fact that supplementing substrate with tryptamine does lead to a much greater psilocybin content in the mushrooms. Do a search and you will see many people have discussed growing on canary grass etc. to this end, however I do not recall seeing anyone post up specific dosages/results...
Personally, if I am planning on imbibing 2+ substances, I prefer to intake individually for quality and dosage reasons, but there doesn't seem to be any inherent reasons this would not work. As to whether or not it is the most efficient use of your raw materials and time is up to debate....
-------------------- Greens for all, and to all a good greens!
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resourcefulop94
Stranger


Registered: 12/08/12
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: saralove]
#19060772 - 10/30/13 10:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Exactly! I am thinking along the lines that the DMT enriched substrate would somehow infuse the mushrooms since they are biomass consumers and what they "eat" kind of becomes them.. idk still a though!
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Jot


Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 1,194
Loc: East of the Cascades, Wa
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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It has been my opinion, that in fact the enzymes used by the Cyanaci would in fact break down the actives and use them as nutrients in that there mycelia.
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Jot]
#19061060 - 10/30/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Really would put the in
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hjalmar
chemist, autist


Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Belgica Secunda
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It is known that an enzyme in psilocybin producing species will hydroxylate the DMT at the 4-position of the indole nucleus, so yes it will be converted into psilocin. Jochen Gartz did research on this. He used tryptamine as a substrate, as another enzyme will dimethylate it at the nitrogen (the second enzymatic step in the mushroom, after 4-hydroxylation).
Personally I'd use tryptamine and use the directions in Gartz' paper. Tryptamine has the advantage of being legal as a pure compound, and relatively inexpensive.
I can't see any reason why DMT would not be adsorbed from Mimosa hostilis rootbark. I bet it will be. It would be a cool idea to follow the process on TLC. Of course that is only a qualitative measurement, you will not know how many extra psilocin your mushroom contains if you don't have access to the advanced analytical equipment required for this.
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Eywa_devotee
Goddess Worshiper


Registered: 10/04/10
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Loc: State of Confusion, Arkan...
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: hjalmar]
#19076324 - 11/02/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Using spent MHRB for shroom potency boosting works (no more than 20% by volume), but the effect is probably from the tannins stressing the mycilia rather than the residual DMT. Just be sure you use a gentle AB as your extraction method, and use enough calcium to buffer the extracted bark to neutral. Using straight MHRB would be wasteful as the mushrooms will not grow in it because it has too much tannins. In general, more stress equals more alkaloids so long as the stress isn't overkill.
-------------------- "Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.
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TheUnknownPoet
Stranger



Registered: 11/14/12
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This won't work.
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Kagenical
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Registered: 05/27/08
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I've never gotten mycelia to colonize MHRB. It's too acidic, and too high in tannin content as described above.
I'm sure it could be done by buffering it with some calcium hydroxide, though.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Kagenical]
#19134692 - 11/14/13 03:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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u'd also have to take some kind of MAOI (rue, caapi, moclobeminde) with the mushrooms you ate from this grow to make the dmt orally active, unless u wanted to do an extract, or u had some hypothesis on DMT activation with psilocybin/psilocyn or like psychonot6 said "It could make a difference on some spiritual invisible matrix plane that we have no idea about". The tannins are heavy with MHRB, whenever I do a brew, I use the egg white tek at the end to get rid of as much as I can, and its STILL nasty, I just cringed thinking about it. The only thing thats keep me coming back to it is the astounding visions, like a waking dream.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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sytar
Radiant



Registered: 09/01/13
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-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: sytar]
#19142274 - 11/15/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Experimentation is the spice of life! Only way you'll ever know is to try it. You can try mixing your MHRB in with WBS or any grain, adjust the pH to proper level, and see what happens. Before I quit growing actives, I discovered that Alleni seem to colonize sterilized Turkey Tail mushrooms very well, much faster than the wood chips. I'm planning on testing a batch of oysters on straight Turkey Tail substrate for shits and giggles this week. Although there is a lot of good info given here on Shroomery, some times you should just say "To hell with it" and do what others say isn't worth trying. If it doesn't work, it's nobody's wasted time but yours. If it does, then great!
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lwheidt
the bridgesii guy



Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 204
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: ghiajake]
#19148639 - 11/17/13 07:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ill let someone else use their dmt as shroom food, and Ill stick to smoking dmt.
-------------------- -bridgesii guy
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: lwheidt]
#19150051 - 11/17/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lwheidt said: Ill let someone else use their dmt as shroom food, and Ill stick to smoking dmt.
QFT
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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letterbomb325

Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 100
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You could try it, but i don't think that a DMT enriched substrate will give you much more than a placebo. IMO just do a "normal" grow and extract the DMT from your chips.
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Hudson
Stranger


Registered: 04/22/13
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Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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There are articles/literature regarding the biosynthesis of various substituted tryptamines when grown on a substrate containing the necessary precursor. However it is largely unexplored territory and a big gamble.
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letterbomb325

Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 100
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Hudson]
#19182630 - 11/24/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its not too big of a gamble, in fact it would be for the good of the shroomery community whether or not anything happened. I would say go for it!!!!!
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Umberton
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/13
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It sounds interesting, but even if there was some sort of effect on the mushrooms grown in this method, DMT ingested orally is not active unless taken with an MAOI. Mimosa is typically used for direct extraction or prepared with an MAOI of some sort...as in Auyahuasca. Good thought though!
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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Umberton]
#19206089 - 11/29/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It seems very unlikely to me that mushrooms would take up DMT and then convert it into any orally active substance...if that is what you desire, supplement with tryptamine instead.
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Psychonaut6
Stranger


Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 4
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: sytar]
#19299887 - 12/19/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Very interesting! might be worth a try if I can make time for it. I'll keep you guys posted if it goes down.
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Bluing
Subsecotioides Seeker


Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 372
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There was a theory that growing psilocybes in a substrate with DMT producing matter could increase tryptamine levels in the fungi (Ala Gartz)
I did this last season, with subsecotioides, using Red Canary Grass seed (Phalaris) which grew into grass, and completely meshed with the fungi substrate to the point that it was difficult to see anything other than grass roots.
When the fruits came, the results were, how should I put it, .............. spectacular in the extreme.
Something to keep in mind is you don't have a hope in hell of retrieving any substrate at a later date.
-------------------- "I am......I am here......and I love" Forgive Yourself,...Forgive Yourself,...I love You,...Forgive Yourself Mycology is good for the Soul
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rhizoRider
Mycorrhizally expanding



Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 1,920
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Bluing]
#19333527 - 12/27/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Paulsage
Shaman of shit storms



Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 109
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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why not take an non psychedelic edible wood loving species and grow it for a few generations on mimosa, theoretically to build up the tryptamine content in the mushroom...
then take a dose of caapi, nom the shrooms and see if you blast off?
that seems like it would end any question about whether or not this would work...
-------------------- "The brain is a reducing valve that restricts consciousness" - A Huxley "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" – Ralph Waldo Emerson… "Whatever you study you also change" - Heisenberg Uncertainty principle
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Bluing
Subsecotioides Seeker


Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 372
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Paulsage]
#19342606 - 12/29/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If the specific mushroom didn't synthesize or express tryptamines, why do you think that would work?
-------------------- "I am......I am here......and I love" Forgive Yourself,...Forgive Yourself,...I love You,...Forgive Yourself Mycology is good for the Soul
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Bluing]
#19342787 - 12/29/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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obviously, this whole thing is speculative. until i see a process with pics, that was repeated/can be repeated, I'm not willing to buy into any one theory. the canary grass seems interesting...but perhaps it contained, coincidentally, just the right amount of nitrogen or other tyrptamine precursors. when i put coffee in a substrate, like coir, i notice a little more potency, not much tho. its enough to tell, but not enough that i couldn't completely rules out pure psychosomatics. maybe next time ill do a blind comparison, because i knew which one was grown with coffee.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Paulsage
Shaman of shit storms



Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 109
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
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Re: DMT cyan garden? [Re: Bluing]
#19343956 - 12/29/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Bluing said: If the specific mushroom didn't synthesize or express tryptamines, why do you think that would work?
i have no idea if it would work, that's why i said "theoretically"... the idea being that if the mushroom was actually absorbing anything tryptamine related it would be easier to detect...
just tossing some shit against a wall to see if something sticks...
-------------------- "The brain is a reducing valve that restricts consciousness" - A Huxley "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" – Ralph Waldo Emerson… "Whatever you study you also change" - Heisenberg Uncertainty principle
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Bluing
Subsecotioides Seeker


Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 372
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Red Canary Grass is known to have relatively high levels of DMT in it, and Gartz proved that introducing increased tryptamine levels into substrate increased tryptamine expression in fruits of psilocybe fungi.
-------------------- "I am......I am here......and I love" Forgive Yourself,...Forgive Yourself,...I love You,...Forgive Yourself Mycology is good for the Soul
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