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InvisiblePoor Boy
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car trouble... help?
    #19053915 - 10/29/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so my car was working fine all day, but when i stopped off mid day to pick a few things up the car would not turn over. you can hear the starter spin, but it just wasnt engaging.

i was like, okay, fuck it. 135.00 for a rebuilt starter. it will set me back, but i need the car to get me to work.

i drop the old starter, take it in and get it tested. yup, bad starter. i pay the 135 and we had back to my car.

i put the new one in. nothing... same thing. it spins, but does not want to engage.

FUCK!!!

we go back to the auto parts place and explain to them the problem. they said bring the other one in to get it tested and go from there.

i dunno...

i get full power in the car. radio, lights, ac.

a guy at the auto parts place said the fly wheel might be in a dead spot and suggested we rock the gears. so we did. we put the car in neutral then threw the car into park. nothing...

we were able to tow the car back to my place and my buddy is going to come over tomorrow to take a look at it, but i figured i might come to you guys as well. i know there are a few car guys here.

its a 2003 Galant ES 2.4L

any help is appreciated.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19053937 - 10/29/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

whoops didn't read your entire post.

i wonder if your solenoid is able to fully extend the gear into the flywheel? maybe it's gettin a bit jammed up? might want to take it off and take a look around at your flywheel, make sure there isn't any unusual wear, warping, or any defects like that.


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Edited by JesusIsLord (10/29/13 07:59 PM)


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19053954 - 10/29/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

maybe. i cab bring that up tomorrow.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19053961 - 10/29/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

but, thats two dif starters we tried with the same problem. its not rare to have two bad cels consecutively, but im thinking it might be something else.


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Offlinempd
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19053963 - 10/29/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Flywheel may have had some teeth ground off.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: mpd]
    #19053980 - 10/29/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

im hoping thats not the problem...

anything i can try or look out for?


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19053992 - 10/29/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
but, thats two dif starters we tried with the same problem. its not rare to have two bad cels consecutively, but im thinking it might be something else.



i'd do a side by side comparison of your new/old starter for bolt pattern dimensions, teeth length, stuff like that.

sometimes the aftermarket shit just doesn't cut it and certain cars have very, very specific needs in terms of replacement parts.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19054001 - 10/29/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

while im at work my buddy is going to take the new...er one back and they are going to test both. i hope they come up with something. that 135 came out of my rent money...


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: mpd]
    #19054071 - 10/29/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
Flywheel may have had some teeth ground off.




With the information you gave this id the best hypothesis that can be reached.


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Offlineloco801
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19054079 - 10/29/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Maybe your alternator? Shit idk haha. Good luck nonetheless. I hate when my car wont start.


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: loco801]
    #19054088 - 10/29/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If it was his alternator the starter wouldn't be spinning.


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Offlineloco801
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19054711 - 10/29/13 10:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mjmihalov said:
If it was his alternator the starter wouldn't be spinning.



Yeah true, I didn't see that.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: loco801]
    #19056441 - 10/30/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for all the input. my buddy is gonna get into it later today so hopefully we will get to the bottom of it.

i dont know much about flywheels, yet, but going by  his attitude, it seems that flys are either expensive and or a pain to install. he said more than a few times, "lets hope its not the flywheel.".


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Offlinebroken
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19056467 - 10/30/13 07:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
but, thats two dif starters we tried with the same problem. its not rare to have two bad cels consecutively, but im thinking it might be something else.





i once got two bad brand new alternators' in a row from the parts store.
yeah, changed the same part 3 times...like 8 hours of wasted labor cuz the auto parts store sold me garbage.
shit still pisses me off.
3rd times a charm, right?


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: broken]
    #19056469 - 10/30/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:lol:

thats shitty.

my buddy knows the guy at the store so hes going to take both starters in and get them re tested and go from there.


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Invisiblejboredone
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19056491 - 10/30/13 07:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

crankshaft sensor.....:shrug:


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: jboredone]
    #19056515 - 10/30/13 07:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

how would one test that?


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: loco801]
    #19056554 - 10/30/13 08:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

loco801 said:
Quote:

mjmihalov said:
If it was his alternator the starter wouldn't be spinning.



Yeah true, I didn't see that.




the starter wouldnt spin at all? another friend of mine called and said the alternator may be going bad and isnt giving the starter enough power to engage.


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Invisiblejboredone
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19056558 - 10/30/13 08:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
how would one test that?



not sure....had the same symptoms a few months back and it was the crankshaft sensor....:shrug:


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: jboredone]
    #19056562 - 10/30/13 08:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ok. thanks.


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy] * 2
    #19056589 - 10/30/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Try tapping the starter with a small hammer sometimes the solenoid will stick.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19056627 - 10/30/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i will bring that up as well.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: mpd]
    #19056642 - 10/30/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mpd said:
Flywheel may have had some teeth ground off.





My buddy's truck's starter used to get stuck, and he let his roommate drive it one time, his roommate didn't know how to turn the starter off/get it unstuck, so he drove it with the starter running, pretty much ground the gears off the entire started and took chunks out of the flywheel.  Terrible...


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Maverick]
    #19056652 - 10/30/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

hmmm... i wouldnt have a clue if my starter was stuck...


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19056670 - 10/30/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It'd sound like you're trying to start your car while the engine is running, but constant.  I don't think that would be your problem though, you'd have noticed it.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Maverick]
    #19056711 - 10/30/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ah. okay. ive done that a few times while under the influence... heh. thinking the car was off and trying to start it then getting that screeching noise. its loud enough for everyone to hear how big of an idiot you are. :lol:


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Offlinemagicbroncoride
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19056778 - 10/30/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Did any shims fall out when you removed old starter? Alot of times there are shims between the starter and bell housing to set proper gear mesh. If starter goes in crooked or too much mesh it will not be strong enough to slide out and engage. I cant remember on 4g engines if your starter uses shims or elongated bolt holes to set mesh. Also take a mirror and flash light and look in bell house hole for starter to see flexplate condition. Take a breaker bar and socket on front crank pulley and turn over motor while checking.
  Check starter yourself off of cars battery with jumper cables. Ground to outside of starter housing and touch positive to lug you would hook red wire to.
  Is it a intergal solenoid or external?  If its external you may still have a bad solenoid. Trace wire from solenoid back up. Is there a large and small wire to starter?
  Not fully engaging can also be a poor connection to ground or power.  The solenoid does nothing but transfer the signal to start from low amp to high amp. What actually throws out the gear is rotational force making it climb a screw while being pushed back against a spring. So if it is not being spun fast enough it will not defeat spring pressure and fully engage. See how hard it engages with the jumper cables. If your battery is weak it will effect it, if connection is bad will effect it and miss alignment will make it worse.
  Use another running vehicle's battery as a reference as to how hard the bendix spins out then try on your vehicle and compare. 
  Sorry that was long winded.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19056785 - 10/30/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

no worries. i will do all this when i get out of work tonight. thanks man. that was really helpful.


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19057949 - 10/30/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sounds like either a misaligned starter (toothed gear to engine flexplate) or missing flexplate teeth. Most people call the flexplate a flywheel but unless its a manual trans, that's inaccurate...


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19057987 - 10/30/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
ah. okay. ive done that a few times while under the influence... heh. thinking the car was off and trying to start it then getting that screeching noise. its loud enough for everyone to hear how big of an idiot you are. :lol:




That might be part of the problem...


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Offlinebroken
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #19058093 - 10/30/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i think you have a weak alternator or bad solenoid.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: broken]
    #19058274 - 10/30/13 03:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

cool. i get out of work here in a bit so ill know more. i was just informed that my buddy is charging the battery cause he seemed to be low on juice. is it possible the battery only had enough juice to spin the starter and turn the lights and shit on?


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Offlinebroken
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19058295 - 10/30/13 03:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes, it is very possible.
it take way more power to start a car then to just turn over a starter and turn on a light.


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OfflineJesusIsLord
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19059385 - 10/30/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
thanks for all the input. my buddy is gonna get into it later today so hopefully we will get to the bottom of it.

i dont know much about flywheels, yet, but going by  his attitude, it seems that flys are either expensive and or a pain to install. he said more than a few times, "lets hope its not the flywheel.".



he is right.

flywheels live at the heart of the car. you'd have to drop the transaxle to get at it, most likely. also known as, a large amount of labor. they aren't cheap either. it'd be strange that was the problem, however.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: JesusIsLord]
    #19059837 - 10/30/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

well hes charging the battery over night and will then get it tested tomorrow. he went ahead and left the new starter in hoping that the fully charged battery will start the fucker up. if this happens then we will get the old starter re tested and go from there. i hope its just the fucking battery.


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19059883 - 10/30/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

have you had codes pulled from the engine control module?
you could have any auto electric service place hook up a computer that reads for codes ad gives a brief description in its diagnosis...
that would tell you if you had a bad starter, battery, or any thing with a sensor or relay or solenoid..


it's what I am doin for a job ATM..


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19059890 - 10/30/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no, i would have to have the car towed there and then towed back. it was hell just getting it to the house. i actually almost died twice last night. looong story....


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19059943 - 10/30/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i believe you can go to an autozone or Orileys and they have a scanner you can use for a deposit...
IMO that would tell you alot!!

you wouldn't have acess to the key that goes into full description called ALLDATA Pro.
but if you did that then I would be willing to pull up the codes you read on our computer at work..

just sayin if y'all still have issues after your friend checks it out that would be a good step to take...

:peace::sun:


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19059963 - 10/30/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

cool. i will def look into that. thanks man! still have you some room in your spot? i still gots the ladies!


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060016 - 10/30/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no prob:)

shit i got the spot, the moonshine and the bud!! 

you bring the ladies and we shall :offthehook:


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060031 - 10/30/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

oh. you thought i was gonna share my chicks with you.

:loldongs:

you got it all wrong...


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Invisiblekr0nik0
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060056 - 10/30/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
well hes charging the battery over night and will then get it tested tomorrow. he went ahead and left the new starter in hoping that the fully charged battery will start the fucker up. if this happens then we will get the old starter re tested and go from there. i hope its just the fucking battery.




The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter.

Someone also mentioned getting any EMC codes. It's only gonna give you a code if your check engine light is on. In which case you can just type that code in online and it'll tell you exactly what sensor is sending that signal.

A lot of people said some teeth on the flywheel could be ground down. That's my best guess, but just a guess. Hope your friend that's helping you out has the proper tools or even a voltmeter (I'm guessing he doesn't since he just decided to trickle charge your battery overnight without knowing what voltage it was putting out)

Just trying to help you out man. Hope everything works out and it's not the flywheel.


--------------------

“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones,
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desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060081 - 10/30/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no worries, but he is the only help i have at the moment. with a full time job and no car its kinda hard to do this myself.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060122 - 10/30/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

03 Galants dont have canbus just obd2 so it would only tell u fault codes and battery voltage. Newer mercs and some vag (volkeswagon auto group) can run diagnosis of starting systems as they have position sensors on the starter motors since they are brushless. Even the most evolved mitsu the evo 10 still uses brushed starters. If the  starter turns but does not engage no computer diagnostic is going to tell you anything. If starter turns then it is no sensor its in the mechanical part. A sensor would not let u have power
  If the motor spun over but didnt fire it could be a sensor.
    But if starter does not engage flexplate it if one of 2 reasons that boil down to one thing: the gear is not making contact with flexplate.
  Look at snout of a starter and you will see the bendix mechanism.  Its a really simple fully mechanical lil piece of brilliant engineering.  It is a gear on a lil screw looking device with a spring pushing the gear towards the starter body.   
        When full power (around 14.7 volts) is applied the electric motor spins up to speed the gear travels up the screw looking piece about 2 inches pushing the spring back, as power is removed the centrifugal force that makes the gear climb the screw cannot over come the force of the spring and returns to its rest position back towards the starter body.
  The power of the spring pushing back and centrifugal force pushing the gear out is a very balanced thing. If not enough rpm (from low current or voltage or mechanical drag from gear teeth on flex plate) the spring will overcome the force from rotation and not allow the gear to engage.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19060134 - 10/30/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i read what youre saying, but im not quite getting it.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060147 - 10/30/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Are you sure the engin as not seazed ? The other thought to many teeth missing on the fly wheel. Ohe one more thing make sure all conetion are good and tight. If you have a loose connect that will happen


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Edited by Eddeee (10/30/13 09:01 PM)


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060150 - 10/30/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter"

----incorrect. it only takes 12.2 to turn over most motors...


Someone also mentioned getting any EMC codes. It's only gonna give you a code if your check engine light is on. In which case you can just type that code in online and it'll tell you exactly what sensor is sending that signal.

also incorrect. using a Scanner you can pull all kinds of codes even with out an dash light on...
and going on line will only give you a brief description because the detailed information is under liscense and cannot be accessed with out an account...


poorboy- make sure your battery terminals are clean and making a good connection...


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060162 - 10/30/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

will do. thanks.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060216 - 10/30/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I guess I'll just take my auto tech degree and ASE certifications and shove them up my ass machinest lol.

:okay:

Edit: Yes, tho check your battery terminals. He's right about that.


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“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones,
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mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



Edited by kr0nik0 (10/30/13 09:15 PM)


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060230 - 10/30/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hey now. all help is appreciated. im taking everything mentioned into consideration. 10 heads is better than one.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060276 - 10/30/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Go to youtube and look up starters how they work. I have the video just cant figure out how to link. 


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060432 - 10/30/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
I guess I'll just take my auto tech degree and ASE certifications and shove them up my ass machinest lol.

:okay:

Edit: Yes, tho check your battery terminals. He's right about that.




hey bro I'm only stating what I know and do at work daily. I don't have all those certifications but I do have about 4 years of collective experience on mechanical and electrical auto issues..

I know that Most vehicles will start with a 12.2 charge cause I read the voltage daily on cars with a power probe that read 12.2 and start right up...

:peace::sun:


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060494 - 10/30/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My bad man. You're right actually. It depends on the battery and the car tho. No reason to argue. Just trying to help OP out.

I actually edited my post. What you said about checking the battery terminals is something very important that a lot of people overlook.

:hug:


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mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19060509 - 10/30/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

magicbroncoride said:
Did any shims fall out when you removed old starter? Alot of times there are shims between the starter and bell housing to set proper gear mesh. If starter goes in crooked or too much mesh it will not be strong enough to slide out and engage. I cant remember on 4g engines if your starter uses shims or elongated bolt holes to set mesh. Also take a mirror and flash light and look in bell house hole for starter to see flexplate condition. Take a breaker bar and socket on front crank pulley and turn over motor while checking.
  Check starter yourself off of cars battery with jumper cables. Ground to outside of starter housing and touch positive to lug you would hook red wire to.
  Is it a intergal solenoid or external?  If its external you may still have a bad solenoid. Trace wire from solenoid back up. Is there a large and small wire to starter?
  Not fully engaging can also be a poor connection to ground or power.  The solenoid does nothing but transfer the signal to start from low amp to high amp. What actually throws out the gear is rotational force making it climb a screw while being pushed back against a spring. So if it is not being spun fast enough it will not defeat spring pressure and fully engage. See how hard it engages with the jumper cables. If your battery is weak it will effect it, if connection is bad will effect it and miss alignment will make it worse.
  Use another running vehicle's battery as a reference as to how hard the bendix spins out then try on your vehicle and compare. 
  Sorry that was long winded.






just jumping the solenoid is faster and easier than dragging out jumper cables


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19060537 - 10/30/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

True but I thought he still had the starter out.


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060570 - 10/30/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:highfive1: corroded terminals/corrosion in the wires are/is definatly a largely overlooked issue!
also OP should check the the grounds are well established..

on a side not kron I'm gonna get that laptop Workin some day!!!:dawerp:
thanks again for that!!!!:smile:


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19060708 - 10/30/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

magicbroncoride said:
True but I thought he still had the starter out.





that's the only thing I saw as a an issue in your post, he may have to do an
extra minute worth of work, the rest was beautiful, quality info, brief but
still informative.


10/10, would read again


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19061799 - 10/31/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter.




Um, no.



Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
I guess I'll just take my auto tech degree and ASE certifications and shove them up my ass machinest lol.




Sounds like a good idea.

A lead-acid battery at full charge has 2.1v per cell. As there are 6 cells that totals 12.6 volts.

Quote:

Open-circuit (quiescent) at full charge: 2.10V




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery


Quote:

The open circuit voltage of a Power-Sonic battery is
2.15 V/cell when fully charged and 1.94 V/cell when completely discharged.




http://www.batteryweb.com/manuals/techman.pdf


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19061875 - 10/31/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the mad machinest said:
"The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter"

----incorrect. it only takes 12.2 to turn over most motors...




also incorrect, 6volts can also start one, some electrical systems are 6
volts, also it's the amount of current that's important in starting a car,
in plain english, the amperage of the battery, that's what's important for
turning a motor that will start the engine

the average alternator, when working correctly puts out 14 volts

Quote:

Someone also mentioned getting any EMC codes. It's only gonna give you a code if your check engine light is on. In which case you can just type that code in online and it'll tell you exactly what sensor is sending that signal.





they're OBD codes, it stands for On Board Diagnostics

Quote:

also incorrect. using a Scanner you can pull all kinds of codes even with out an dash light on...
and going on line will only give you a brief description because the detailed information is under liscense and cannot be accessed with out an account...


poorboy- make sure your battery terminals are clean and making a good connection...




and none of this has anything to do with the bendix not engaging on a starter


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19061894 - 10/31/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

like I said a few posts back I'm just stating what I know and see and do on a daily basis.

yes you pull obd codes from the engine control modual/body control modual/ instrument cluster/ABS.
I call those codes by the source the are stored in.

p1050 would be a ECM code to me...

and it might not have to do with the bendix but that's my what we were discussing and I'm pretty sure that is what were suppose to do ere is have discussion....

:peace:


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19061932 - 10/31/13 06:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

As said

-Your flywheel ring gear could be missing teeth
-Your starter motor isn't throwing out/pulling in the gear to engage with the flywheel ring gear
-Lack of voltage to correctly operate the starter motor

I'm pretty sure you said you could hear the starter motor spinning but it wasn't "Starting" So I'd go with either of the top two.

Like another mechanic said before, sometimes when you remove a starter motor they have shims to set correct distance for the starter gear to engage correctly, make sure you didn't lose them. :smile:

I hope you can make sense of this.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Sanpedrox]
    #19062061 - 10/31/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, i gotcha. my buddy and i are on different scheduels, so its hard to be in the same spot at once. i have a felling the car will be out of commission until this weekend. last night i couldnt do much of anything cause he had the battery...


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19068932 - 11/01/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19069052 - 11/01/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

he picked up the battery from the shop yesterday and was fully charged. still nothing...

but

he said he had noticed a scraping on the flywheel. like a streak...


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19069170 - 11/01/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You could unbolt the starter and check the pinion gear to see if its damaged. Then you can see a small section of the flywheel. Have someone rotate the engine by hand with a breaker bar and socket to inspect the teeth on the fly wheel put the socket on the pully nut comming off the crank shaft and rotate clockwise to rotate the flywheel.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #19069195 - 11/01/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thats what he did which is how he saw the marks. a few teeth were a bit worn, but he was able to scrape em down a bit. there is still no explanation for the scratch marks.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19069208 - 11/01/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Unbolt starter from bell housing while leaving wires connected.  Turn key what happens? U might have to ground starter case.


Edited by magicbroncoride (11/01/13 11:06 AM)


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19073876 - 11/02/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i just posted the car for 800.00 OBO. im 95% sure my dad will lend me his car until i can get another one.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19074077 - 11/02/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
thats what he did which is how he saw the marks. a few teeth were a bit worn, but he was able to scrape em down a bit. there is still no explanation for the scratch marks.





sounds like the starter is out of alignment, possibly needing shims as was mentioned earlier


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19074094 - 11/02/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

this car doesnt have shims...


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19074153 - 11/02/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

what kind of car?


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19074229 - 11/02/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

2003 galant ES


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19074438 - 11/02/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

my phone has been blowing up all morning. i also spoke with my dad and he doesnt have a problem with me borrowing his car until i can get a new one.

i put 800 obo, but ill only go as low as 700.


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19074914 - 11/02/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If it don't run and requires shittons of work you'll be lucky to get $500 for it.  A junk yard might buy it for $100 off you...


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Maverick]
    #19075149 - 11/02/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It has brand new tires and a new starter. If you have a shop you could make some money... Ecspecially with tax returns coming around...


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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19075173 - 11/02/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

But if the flywheel is fucked, who cares about a cheap starter?  The flywheel is going to require an engine pull, gotta remove the transmission, you'll need an engine jack, you and dismantle your manifold etc.  Lots of tools, time and money.

Basically the labor would be more than $700 worth of work.

People don't buy scrap cars for $700, they buy shitty but running cars that they can fix up for 300-500$ and sell for $4000.  If it's going to cost more to do the repair, people won't buy it. 

I do hope you find someone who needs the parts and is willing to part around $500 though, sucks that you lost your car.  My statement above is just me being realistic about the prices.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Maverick]
    #19075275 - 11/02/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know... I'm just trying to be optimistic...


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Invisiblejboredone
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19076779 - 11/02/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I already told you the problem is a sensor....We tried all the things you have it ended up being the crankshaft sensor.....:bendoverrover:



p.s. your mechanic is lying to you about the scrape marks lol


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Edited by jboredone (11/02/13 07:55 PM)


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: jboredone]
    #19079159 - 11/03/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Any way to get that tested?


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19080404 - 11/03/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just sold the car for 650. The guy was saying something was off with the timming belt and the heads.


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