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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Registered: 01/16/12
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060031 - 10/30/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

oh. you thought i was gonna share my chicks with you.

:loldongs:

you got it all wrong...


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Invisiblekr0nik0
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060056 - 10/30/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Poor Boy said:
well hes charging the battery over night and will then get it tested tomorrow. he went ahead and left the new starter in hoping that the fully charged battery will start the fucker up. if this happens then we will get the old starter re tested and go from there. i hope its just the fucking battery.




The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter.

Someone also mentioned getting any EMC codes. It's only gonna give you a code if your check engine light is on. In which case you can just type that code in online and it'll tell you exactly what sensor is sending that signal.

A lot of people said some teeth on the flywheel could be ground down. That's my best guess, but just a guess. Hope your friend that's helping you out has the proper tools or even a voltmeter (I'm guessing he doesn't since he just decided to trickle charge your battery overnight without knowing what voltage it was putting out)

Just trying to help you out man. Hope everything works out and it's not the flywheel.


--------------------

“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,
mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Registered: 01/16/12
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060081 - 10/30/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no worries, but he is the only help i have at the moment. with a full time job and no car its kinda hard to do this myself.


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Offlinemagicbroncoride
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060122 - 10/30/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

03 Galants dont have canbus just obd2 so it would only tell u fault codes and battery voltage. Newer mercs and some vag (volkeswagon auto group) can run diagnosis of starting systems as they have position sensors on the starter motors since they are brushless. Even the most evolved mitsu the evo 10 still uses brushed starters. If the  starter turns but does not engage no computer diagnostic is going to tell you anything. If starter turns then it is no sensor its in the mechanical part. A sensor would not let u have power
  If the motor spun over but didnt fire it could be a sensor.
    But if starter does not engage flexplate it if one of 2 reasons that boil down to one thing: the gear is not making contact with flexplate.
  Look at snout of a starter and you will see the bendix mechanism.  Its a really simple fully mechanical lil piece of brilliant engineering.  It is a gear on a lil screw looking device with a spring pushing the gear towards the starter body.   
        When full power (around 14.7 volts) is applied the electric motor spins up to speed the gear travels up the screw looking piece about 2 inches pushing the spring back, as power is removed the centrifugal force that makes the gear climb the screw cannot over come the force of the spring and returns to its rest position back towards the starter body.
  The power of the spring pushing back and centrifugal force pushing the gear out is a very balanced thing. If not enough rpm (from low current or voltage or mechanical drag from gear teeth on flex plate) the spring will overcome the force from rotation and not allow the gear to engage.


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19060134 - 10/30/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i read what youre saying, but im not quite getting it.


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OfflineEddeee
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060147 - 10/30/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Are you sure the engin as not seazed ? The other thought to many teeth missing on the fly wheel. Ohe one more thing make sure all conetion are good and tight. If you have a loose connect that will happen


--------------------
Don't read books study life then write books
we are nothing but atoms trying to figure out what atoms are.



Edited by Eddeee (10/30/13 09:01 PM)


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060150 - 10/30/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter"

----incorrect. it only takes 12.2 to turn over most motors...


Someone also mentioned getting any EMC codes. It's only gonna give you a code if your check engine light is on. In which case you can just type that code in online and it'll tell you exactly what sensor is sending that signal.

also incorrect. using a Scanner you can pull all kinds of codes even with out an dash light on...
and going on line will only give you a brief description because the detailed information is under liscense and cannot be accessed with out an account...


poorboy- make sure your battery terminals are clean and making a good connection...


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060162 - 10/30/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

will do. thanks.


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Invisiblekr0nik0
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060216 - 10/30/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I guess I'll just take my auto tech degree and ASE certifications and shove them up my ass machinest lol.

:okay:

Edit: Yes, tho check your battery terminals. He's right about that.


--------------------

“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,
mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



Edited by kr0nik0 (10/30/13 09:15 PM)


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InvisiblePoor Boy
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Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 7,473
Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060230 - 10/30/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

hey now. all help is appreciated. im taking everything mentioned into consideration. 10 heads is better than one.


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Offlinemagicbroncoride
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Poor Boy]
    #19060276 - 10/30/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Go to youtube and look up starters how they work. I have the video just cant figure out how to link. 


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Registered: 04/18/13
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060432 - 10/30/13 09:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
I guess I'll just take my auto tech degree and ASE certifications and shove them up my ass machinest lol.

:okay:

Edit: Yes, tho check your battery terminals. He's right about that.




hey bro I'm only stating what I know and do at work daily. I don't have all those certifications but I do have about 4 years of collective experience on mechanical and electrical auto issues..

I know that Most vehicles will start with a 12.2 charge cause I read the voltage daily on cars with a power probe that read 12.2 and start right up...

:peace::sun:


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Invisiblekr0nik0
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19060494 - 10/30/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My bad man. You're right actually. It depends on the battery and the car tho. No reason to argue. Just trying to help OP out.

I actually edited my post. What you said about checking the battery terminals is something very important that a lot of people overlook.

:hug:


--------------------

“[...]the only people for me are the mad ones,
the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk,
mad to be saved,
desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes “Awww!”



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19060509 - 10/30/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

magicbroncoride said:
Did any shims fall out when you removed old starter? Alot of times there are shims between the starter and bell housing to set proper gear mesh. If starter goes in crooked or too much mesh it will not be strong enough to slide out and engage. I cant remember on 4g engines if your starter uses shims or elongated bolt holes to set mesh. Also take a mirror and flash light and look in bell house hole for starter to see flexplate condition. Take a breaker bar and socket on front crank pulley and turn over motor while checking.
  Check starter yourself off of cars battery with jumper cables. Ground to outside of starter housing and touch positive to lug you would hook red wire to.
  Is it a intergal solenoid or external?  If its external you may still have a bad solenoid. Trace wire from solenoid back up. Is there a large and small wire to starter?
  Not fully engaging can also be a poor connection to ground or power.  The solenoid does nothing but transfer the signal to start from low amp to high amp. What actually throws out the gear is rotational force making it climb a screw while being pushed back against a spring. So if it is not being spun fast enough it will not defeat spring pressure and fully engage. See how hard it engages with the jumper cables. If your battery is weak it will effect it, if connection is bad will effect it and miss alignment will make it worse.
  Use another running vehicle's battery as a reference as to how hard the bendix spins out then try on your vehicle and compare. 
  Sorry that was long winded.






just jumping the solenoid is faster and easier than dragging out jumper cables


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Offlinemagicbroncoride
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19060537 - 10/30/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

True but I thought he still had the starter out.


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19060570 - 10/30/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:highfive1: corroded terminals/corrosion in the wires are/is definatly a largely overlooked issue!
also OP should check the the grounds are well established..

on a side not kron I'm gonna get that laptop Workin some day!!!:dawerp:
thanks again for that!!!!:smile:


--------------------
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:trees::trees:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19060708 - 10/30/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

magicbroncoride said:
True but I thought he still had the starter out.





that's the only thing I saw as a an issue in your post, he may have to do an
extra minute worth of work, the rest was beautiful, quality info, brief but
still informative.


10/10, would read again


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: kr0nik0]
    #19061799 - 10/31/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter.




Um, no.



Quote:

kr0nik0 said:
I guess I'll just take my auto tech degree and ASE certifications and shove them up my ass machinest lol.




Sounds like a good idea.

A lead-acid battery at full charge has 2.1v per cell. As there are 6 cells that totals 12.6 volts.

Quote:

Open-circuit (quiescent) at full charge: 2.10V




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery


Quote:

The open circuit voltage of a Power-Sonic battery is
2.15 V/cell when fully charged and 1.94 V/cell when completely discharged.




http://www.batteryweb.com/manuals/techman.pdf


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #19061875 - 10/31/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the mad machinest said:
"The battery should be around 14.2 volts or so when the car is off in order to start the car. Depends on the battery. Either way, when it falls under 13 volts, it's not enough for the starter"

----incorrect. it only takes 12.2 to turn over most motors...




also incorrect, 6volts can also start one, some electrical systems are 6
volts, also it's the amount of current that's important in starting a car,
in plain english, the amperage of the battery, that's what's important for
turning a motor that will start the engine

the average alternator, when working correctly puts out 14 volts

Quote:

Someone also mentioned getting any EMC codes. It's only gonna give you a code if your check engine light is on. In which case you can just type that code in online and it'll tell you exactly what sensor is sending that signal.





they're OBD codes, it stands for On Board Diagnostics

Quote:

also incorrect. using a Scanner you can pull all kinds of codes even with out an dash light on...
and going on line will only give you a brief description because the detailed information is under liscense and cannot be accessed with out an account...


poorboy- make sure your battery terminals are clean and making a good connection...




and none of this has anything to do with the bendix not engaging on a starter


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: car trouble... help? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19061894 - 10/31/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

like I said a few posts back I'm just stating what I know and see and do on a daily basis.

yes you pull obd codes from the engine control modual/body control modual/ instrument cluster/ABS.
I call those codes by the source the are stored in.

p1050 would be a ECM code to me...

and it might not have to do with the bendix but that's my what we were discussing and I'm pretty sure that is what were suppose to do ere is have discussion....

:peace:


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