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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: 404]
    #19051398 - 10/29/13 10:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

StateOfMind404 said:

your post sounded a lot like some rambling mumbo jumbo rubbish at many parts - like this: "The organic psychedelics such as mushrooms (psilocybin mushrooms), ibogaine root, peyote and salvia - all provide access to and communion with non-human plant intelligences that are immanent in nature."

"The jungle is being destroyed, and ayahuasca shamans are her emissary, spreading out into our diseased world to change our hearts and minds one ceremony at a time- the Jaguar, the serpent and the condor are alive in the vine,"


in fact most of this post is rubbish. etizolam is not really a great alternative... it IS addictive. also you left out that methylone and other mdma analogues were also empathogens... more importantly, why the hate on phenelethylamines?


"The primary culprit in drug induced psychosis is not the drugs themselves but sleep deprivation. This is why amphetamine and methamphetamine psychosis is very common- because those drugs prevent sleep for days on end. Missing a night of sleep is enormously hard on the body and brain. After a few days without sleep psychosis WILL set in, inevitably, and prolonged sleep deprivation can cause serious psychological harm."

not really true. psychosis deals with alteration in neurotransmitter levels, in stimulants, it is the hightened level of Dopamine that is thought to induce the psychosis.




--you don't have much of a clue what you are talking about me tinks :ifindthisboring:




Etizolam is addictive, but considerably less addictive than xanax or conventional benzos, a fact confirmed both by research science and by user testimonials (I have personally spoken to many people who have used copious amounts of both and tell me that etizolam withdrawal takes much longer to set in, and is much less severe, although still nothing to mess around with by any means). I said in the email one should not do etizolam more than 3 times a week (max dose 3 mg a day). If one sticks to that rule I think it can be safe and therapeutic.

The stuff about the jungle and plant spirits I truly do believe, along with millions of other people. All indigenous cultures share the belief in nature spirits and plant intelligences and all have shamanic traditions. You can call it "mumbo jumbo" but that is a very ethnocentric dismissal of the most ancient and universal wisdom tradition in the world.

I believe sleep deprivation is the primary cause of drug induced psychosis that persists longer than the duration of the drug itself, but yes alterations in brain chemistry also play a part.

The kinds of arguments you are bringing up are rational, logical and fair. This kind of posting I value and respect. You are not trolling of flaming, just debating. Well done! A lot of other posters in this thread could take a lesson from you.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Chowder963]
    #19051415 - 10/29/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder963 said:
Yeah, he's crazy as fuck... He's obviously not a normal person, he's used to people bashing on him, this thread isn't the first time people have picked on him.

I understand his thoughts, even though they are a bit more out there than my own, but part of tripping is being able to use those experiences to better yourself in the real world, and being normal about those experiences, letting you be a better person, he's just coming off as a weird ass about it and making drugs and the people who do then look bad.



THIS


--------------------
Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?


Edited by ModestMouse (10/29/13 10:49 AM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: TheMule73]
    #19051440 - 10/29/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheMule73 said:
Quote:

Ketamine dissociates the mind from the body and the soul from the flesh, and by doing so it proves that we are not purely physical. It allows the direct experience of the spiritual body existing independently from the flesh. It therefore guarantees the possibility of life after death, and refreshes ones perspective on life.






That possibility of life after death is always there precisely because we are living now and will die, not because of some OBE brought up by ketamine. Call this splitting hairs all you want, but my point is that when someone is so far gone into their own ideas and views they end up not realizing their unconscious associations being connected to that which drives their delusions. In this case you are associating an experience on a drug with an idea. This idea (life after death) should be associated with the experience of life itself, not ketamine.

Quote:

In my own case of drug induced psychosis, the factor was not so much the drugs I was doing but my decision not to sleep for a prolonged time. At the time I was not aware of how disastrous the effects of sleep deprivation are, and I had resolved not to miss the meditation class on the first morning of the new year, so instead of sleeping like all my friends did, I forced myself to go to Dharma center on zero sleep, and my mind cracked.




The decision to not sleep was probably brought on by the poor mindset you were in from all the drugs. That should be quite clear to you. The fact that you are diminishing the role of the drugs within your decision-making process is a red flag.

Quote:


Alcohol and tobacco are addictive, cancer causing, toxic, life-destroying poisons with no redeeming value, but they are legal.




They have no redeeming value for you.

Quote:

The legalization of marijuana is at hand, and represents an evolutionary threshold for humanity as significant as the abolishment of slavery and granting women the right to vote.




You should be able to see the ridiculousness of that comparison for yourself. Its a big deal yea, but people choose to partake in weed and then endure punishments that shouldn't exist. People didn't choose to be black, yet were unjustly punished for it. Big difference.




These may be subtleties I am pointing out, I know, but the subtleties  within one's actions, body movements, and statements, are what gives the most insight into a person's state of mind. You think you have more knowledge then you do. Sorry but it is obvious. I realize that will be hard for you to understand. Trust me, i go through it ever few months after I come down from a manic episode. You need to let go of your views for a minute and precisely go through each line of what you wrote. It is full of minor flaws, generalizations, and outlandish statements that point towards your lack of understanding of how greatly you believe in what you are saying.

And no, you aren't a "neo-shaman."




These are subtle but worthwhile points. Again, this is a legitimate post, constituting debate and actual engagement with the material. Once again, other posters in this thread who just called me a junky, a liar or insane could take a lesson here on how to make a worthwhile post with content.

I stand by my assertion that modern tobacco products (with additives) are worse than worthless, and using them at all (smoking) is a serious mental disease, the most lethal mental illness that exists is smoking cigarettes.

Likewise alcohol is a toxic poison that is addictive and attacks every organ, tissue and system in the body. However, 1-2 glasses of red wine or good beer a day is pleasurable and mostly safe with some minor cardioprotective benefits for some people. I drink occasionally but dont consider it a wise decision.

I do believe that the legalization of marijuana and the end of the brutal persecution of a completely innocent and massive segment of the population is indeed a social development of massive significance, certainly comparable if not exactly equal or identical to the abolishment of slavery and the emancipation of women. It is another step in that direction, another threshold in our hopeful march towards social evolution and a more utopian society (to say nothing here of all the negative things going on in the world that are regressive).

The decision not to sleep was certainly brought on by drugs, but also as I said in the letter by my lack of understanding at the time of the severe consequences of sleep deprivation. Now I know better, and even if I am on drugs I make sure to take etizolam if needed so I never miss a night of sleep, and I have had no psychosis like symptoms ever since, even when using the same drugs.

"You think you have more knowledge then you do. Sorry but it is obvious. "

My honest assessment of my own knowledge level and that of everyone who knows me is that it is highly unusual in that I am uncommonly intelligent and well educated and knowledgeable, especially for my age. Less than half of one percent of all Canadians will ever equal or exceed my academic achievements, statistically speaking.

I am in the 99.5% percentile of all Canadian academics at the master's level.

However, I realize that there is an INFINITE amount of things to be known and there are millions of people FAR more knowledgeable and intelligent than I am. Everything I believe is conjectural, subjective and constantly changing. I am very foolish in many ways, make many stupid decisions, and have many areas of knowledge that I know virtually nothing about and many areas of cognition in which I am far below average.

I am an academic specialist and am extremely knowledgeable in about a dozen subjects but completely ignorant in hundreds of others.

Many people have called me a genius but I personally do not accept that label. For one thing I am very weak in math, cant read a map or a blueprint, have a very poor memory for non-academic information, and can't drive a car (never had a licence). To me that doesn't sound like a genius (although Einstein never learned to drive).

However, I am an extremely talented writer, as every professor I have ever had has told me. This, more than any particular intelligence, is what made my extraordinary academic success possible. Writing essays is 90% of an arts degree, and I happen to have mastered that artform.

Give me some basic math or science questions any high school student in precal would beat me.

I don't know everything. I don't know even 1 percent of 1 percent of 1 percent of what there is to know, and EVERYTHING I know is conditional and thus not even true knowledge.

Like everyone else, I am a fool who sees only a single grain of sand on the endless shores of reality.

In any case, I sent this letter to my brother as an informal method of communication, then posted it here for anyone who might be interested, so I never dreamed it would be bulletproof and rock solid intellectually. I wrote it while high and drinking alcohol in about 20 minutes.

Thanks for the feedback though, this kind of feedback is why I bother to post this stuff here

:highfive:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/29/13 10:58 AM)


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051457 - 10/29/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What I really love is all those calling you out for the "shamanism" aspect and I guarantee not a single one of them actually understands what a shaman does/is.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: ModestMouse]
    #19051475 - 10/29/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ModestMouse said:
Quote:

Chowder963 said:
Yeah, he's crazy as fuck... He's obviously not a normal person, he's used to people bashing on him, this thread isn't the first time people have picked on him.

I understand his thoughts, even though they are a bit more out there than my own, but part of tripping is being able to use those experiences to better yourself in the real world, and being normal about those experiences, letting you be a better person, he's just coming off as a weird ass about it and making drugs and the people who do then look bad.



THIS




I don't deny being crazy as fuck. I embrace that. But most really remarkable people in history were crazy as fuck. Sane is just another word for normal, and normal is just another word for average.

I think people who do meth, crack, heroin, drink too excess etc and act like maniacs and commit crimes and damage society are the ones who make drugs look bad. People who think deeply about drugs and write about them and try to learn from them do not make drugs look bad, they help educate people about drugs. Look at writer/users like Terrence McKenna, Alexander Shulgin, John Lilly, Timothy Leary, etc.

They were all crazy as fuck, but they were also all geniuses whose words reached massive audiences and whose books and crazy ideas are still read and discussed and enjoyed today.

Great artists and great intellectuals and great musicians all tend to be crazy as fuck.

I have no interest in being normal and I am in fact exceptional in most regards, my world view is shocking to most average people and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Michel Foucault wrote that "In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom! "

'There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.', Arthur Rimbaud

"There was never a genius without a tincture of madness." - Aristotle

"The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success." - Bruce Feirstein

Butler (1835 - 1902); "There is no great genius without some touch of madness"

There is a fine line between genius and madness because they share the same genes, scientists have found.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6243747/Fine-line-between-genius-and-madness-scientists-find.html

I wrote a whole essay on madness and would be happy to share it with you.

In any case I do not take being called mad or insane or crazy as an insult, every really worthwhile person has been at some time or another.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineConstantine
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #19051492 - 10/29/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Leary was an idiot and he made drug users look bad, I wouldn't exactly call him a genius.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19051495 - 10/29/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
What I really love is all those calling you out for the "shamanism" aspect and I guarantee not a single one of them actually understands what a shaman does/is.




I actually defined it quite clearly in my OP.

I took many courses on Shamanism in University and learned how it is understood academically.

From a scholarly point of view, a Shaman is one who knows and practices the techniques of ecstasy.

Ecstasy is defined as an altered state of consciousness.

Therefore the shaman is one who knows and practices the techniques of achieving altered states of consciousness.

These techniques include dancing, drumming, chanting, fasting, self mutilation, starvation, dehydration, asphyxiation and isolation.

However, those methods were most commonly used by indigenous cultures who did not have access to psychedelic or psychoactive plants.

When access to those psychoactive plants were available, the shamans were always the experts in those drugs as vehicles for achieving states of ecstasy (altered states of consciousness).

The original shamans used peyote, ibogaine root, psilocybin mushrooms, DMT containing snuffs (Yopo), ayahuasca, toad venom etc for their shamanism.

Therefore when I participate in an ayahuasca ceremony under the tutelage of a shaman who himself was a student of a peruvian shaman of an authentic lineage, I am indeed participating in Shamanism in its most literal and traditional sense.

However, I clearly stated that I do not consider myself a true shaman because I am not under the tutelage of an initiated master (aside from my one ceremony and future ones I hope to plan) and because I am not part of a lineage (except a tibetan buddhist lineage that does not practice psychedelic drug shamanism).

However, in the most literal definition, I am one who knows and practices the techniques of achieving altered states of consciousness. I have a large knowledge repository about how to use a wide variety of plants and medicines to achieve a wide variety of altered states similar or identical to those of traditional shamanism.

Therefore it is entirely literal for me to define myself as a Shaman, but I choose not to do so out of respect for indigenous cultures who have an authentic culture of shamanism. Instead I call myself a neo-shaman, having both similarities and differences to those ancient cultures.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Constantine]
    #19051498 - 10/29/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Constantine said:
Leary was an idiot and he made drug users look bad, I wouldn't exactly call him a genius.




I agree that he played a part in getting LSD banned and set legitimate psychedelic research back enormously.

However, I would say he was a creative and literary genius and I value , appreciate and respect his contribution to art, literature and psychedelic research, despite his massive failings as a proponent of drugs (by getting them banned).


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleChowder963
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051507 - 10/29/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You're not the "crazy creative cool" type, you're the "crazy socially awkward weird as fuck" type.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Chowder963]
    #19051528 - 10/29/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder963 said:
You're not the "crazy creative cool" type, you're the "crazy socially awkward weird as fuck" type.




You don't know me in real life. I have always been attractive, successful, popular, socially gregarious, athletic, outgoing, and part of a large and close group of friends in which I am highly regarded (since grade 10 onwards anyways). I was always considered "cool" and aggressively pursued by females.



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Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/29/13 11:23 AM)


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Offlinedontknow
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051536 - 10/29/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you're so cool you're probs use to chumps like chowder. Just ignore him, it shouldn't bother someone of your status nor should you have to prove yourself to him


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:box:

The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14

:tripping2: :shroomer:  :trippinballs: :shroomin:

“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.”
Albert Einstein


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OfflineGEncore
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051548 - 10/29/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If your life was always so perfect it's weird that you sought out drugs and used them to such a degree. So many different ones, too

Not saying I don't believe you, it's just odd


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: GEncore]
    #19051563 - 10/29/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GEncore said:
If your life was always so perfect it's weird that you sought out drugs and used them to such a degree. So many different ones, too

Not saying I don't believe you, it's just odd




Drug use is correlated with intelligence. Most intelligent people use drugs.

Why Intelligent People Use More Drugs

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-use-more-drugs

"more intelligent individuals are more likely to consume all types of psychoactive drugs than less intelligent individuals... It does not predict that more intelligent individuals are more likely to engage in healthy and beneficial behavior, only that they are more likely to engage in evolutionarily novel behavior."


10 Geniuses Who Used Drugs -- And Their Drugs of Choice
Is intelligence related to an increased likelihood of recreational drug use?

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/10-geniuses-who-used-drugs-and-their-drugs-choice

Why Kids With High IQs Are More Likely to Take Drugs

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/15/why-kids-with-high-iq-are-more-likely-to-take-drugs/#ixzz2j8JrvfJj


Why Intelligent People Use More Drugs

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/why_intelligent_people_use_more_drugs

etc


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Offlinedontknow
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051571 - 10/29/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:Drug use is correlated with intelligence. Most intelligent people use drugs.




Lol'd then stopped reading


--------------------
:box:

The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly. -Proverbs 15:14

:tripping2: :shroomer:  :trippinballs: :shroomin:

“Imagination is everything. It is the preview of Life’s coming attractions.”
Albert Einstein


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OfflineGEncore
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051579 - 10/29/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, that makes sense. but still. there's a certain culture and stigma we're all born and raised in. gotta have reasons to break it


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: dontknow]
    #19051582 - 10/29/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dontknow said:
If you're so cool you're probs use to chumps like chowder. Just ignore him, it shouldn't bother someone of your status nor should you have to prove yourself to him




Its worth stating a few facts about my life to provide some context for my ideas to those who choose to read them.

Trolls who insult me on the basis of no information give me an opportunity to share those facts without being arrogant (as it was not me who made it personal in the first place).


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: dontknow]
    #19051586 - 10/29/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dontknow said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:Drug use is correlated with intelligence. Most intelligent people use drugs.




Lol'd then stopped reading




Fair enough but I was simply quoting multiple scientific studies. The research proves that more intelligent people are more likely to use drugs than less intelligent people, LOL or not.

However It may not have been accurate to say that "most" intelligent people use drugs, what I meant to say is that people who are more intelligent are more likely to use drugs and that drug use is directly correlated with intelligence.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (10/29/13 11:36 AM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: GEncore]
    #19051588 - 10/29/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GEncore said:
yeah, that makes sense. but still. there's a certain culture and stigma we're all born and raised in. gotta have reasons to break it




Oh I do have reasons.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleChowder963
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19051636 - 10/29/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, thanks for makin my morning, and yeah good luck with your delusions of reality.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: My brother wrote me a letter telling me to quit drugs - here is my response [Re: Chowder963]
    #19051668 - 10/29/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Chowder963 said:
LOL, thanks for makin my morning, and yeah good luck with your delusions of reality.




What delusions? I challenge you to say something specific with actual content, instead of just straight up ad hominem insults against someone you have never met.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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