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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070986 - 11/01/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
Already refuted that one.




Wrong

Btw I know people who have had bad experiences with ecstasy.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/01/13 05:13 PM)


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070995 - 11/01/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't hold the same opinions about not feeding other humans. 

I consider it a blessing not to feed them cause then they just reproduce and then another round of human suffering. I'm one of the good guys. :satansmoking:




It's not like it cost a fortune to feed them..

Having to currently be dependent on the illusory concept of economics, we should have went the way of Asia. Farming insects is dirt cheap. They can't all taste terrible and it's by far healthier protein than what the American diet consists of. At least they'd be eating real food instead of food product.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070998 - 11/01/13 05:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In this day and age it's hard to say what's ecstasy and what isn't unless they tested it every time.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071016 - 11/01/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't hold the same opinions about not feeding other humans. 

I consider it a blessing not to feed them cause then they just reproduce and then another round of human suffering. I'm one of the good guys. :satansmoking:




It's not like it cost a fortune to feed them..

Having to currently be dependent on the illusory concept of economics, we should have went the way of Asia. Farming insects is dirt cheap. They can't all taste terrible and it's by far healthier protein than what the American diet consists of. At least they'd be eating real food instead of food product.





Then go do it and quit talking about it.  I don't believe it myself.  Ignorant humans will always over breed their environment.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19071018 - 11/01/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If one person overcomes their childhood traumas then the rest are equally capable.

This comes from shear ignorance imo.  There are so many factors in human psychology that no two people can ever be alike or we all would be.  This kind of black and white view of our human psychology is youthful folly.




That wasn't even an argument. It was just "no" repeated in the form of a lot of trivial words. The basis for human psychology is the same or psychology wouldn't work at all. Every human being starts off the same way, a blank slate. Environment and to a lesser role genetics determines the person they will become.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071023 - 11/01/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
In this day and age it's hard to say what's ecstasy and what isn't unless they tested it every time.




I've used it a lot and it's always tested as pure or I and my friends don't use it and I know of two people who had melt downs on it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19071047 - 11/01/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Ara16w said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't hold the same opinions about not feeding other humans. 

I consider it a blessing not to feed them cause then they just reproduce and then another round of human suffering. I'm one of the good guys. :satansmoking:




It's not like it cost a fortune to feed them..

Having to currently be dependent on the illusory concept of economics, we should have went the way of Asia. Farming insects is dirt cheap. They can't all taste terrible and it's by far healthier protein than what the American diet consists of. At least they'd be eating real food instead of food product.





Then go do it and quit talking about it.  I don't believe it myself.  Ignorant humans will always over breed their environment.




If the powerful interests that control this world wanted Africa fed then it'd be done already. Instead, we led a propaganda campaign against the only guy who wanted to see a strong independent and united Africa, and then murdered him. I think I'll pass for the time being. There's countless ways in which Africa could have been fed though. Instead, we've chosen to prolong the problem by sending them food rather than giving them the means to produce their own.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19071062 - 11/01/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Elaborate. What's your definition of a melt down?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071068 - 11/01/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
If one person overcomes their childhood traumas then the rest are equally capable.

This comes from shear ignorance imo.  There are so many factors in human psychology that no two people can ever be alike or we all would be.  This kind of black and white view of our human psychology is youthful folly.




That wasn't even an argument. It was just "no" repeated in the form of a lot of trivial words. The basis for human psychology is the same or psychology wouldn't work at all. Every human being starts off the same way, a blank slate. Environment and to a lesser role genetics determines the person they will become.




As an egg maybe they are a blank slate but even in the womb there is cause and effect at work.  No two peoples psychology can be equated due to all the variables and times of traumatic or other events not to mention the role genetics plays.  I've read enough on psychology to at least get that much not to mention 60 years of observing myself and other humans.  I know people who have been desperately trying to change their outlook for 40 years with little practical result. We are basically set in youth for most.  I will admit to seeming exceptions but again I can't say due to the variables of individual psychology.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedrkkenny
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
    #19071080 - 11/01/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think there are certain morals we have to apply to our life if we are to ever find a firm foundation in which we can build for future generations to celebrate our achievements of abstaining from pleasures. Certain pleasures must be prevented from ever being attained, we must try our hardest in order to abandon any endeavor to release the expression that would seek to dispose of the notion that we were preventing pleasure from presenting itself. For some pleasures we no longer deserve and will have taken away from us, as if someone purposely decided to impose their command in order that you had that pleasure removed. They would go to any length in order to assure that the pleasure never revealed itself, to try and put them out of ever acquiring that pleasure. But then pleasures we will give ourselves up to, they will be the ones we most wish to abandon ourselves to, we no longer have any desire to resist to the temptation of rediscovering that pleasure in ourselves, so indeed we never do find out all the pleasure we lost.

I know that I always informed my friends that we would have to have a code of honor we'd follow it we ever were to get anywhere together. It was about bringing people together so we could resolve our difficulties for at times we would be prone to not talking to each other, we will choose to purposely ignore them and choose to talk to someone else instead. As if trying to signify that certain people could never be acknowledged as being your type to exchange social intercourse with and only a certain breed could keep you amid their company without asking to leave 5 seconds after first gaining that bond.

I also was hoping that after I told my friends to keep this honor intact, that after I left them they wouldn't discard all those important moral codes I passed down to them, as if it was some secret code of conduct that they had to pass if they ever wanted to work with a professional. Sometimes we won't talk to someone if they have abandoned the notion that we shouldn't mention the morals to others that need to know, as if it was something they knew they had to acknowledge at some point and now they could dedicate their thanks to the person that gave them a new moral outlook. For there are certain things which cannot be done, certain words that should be refrained from saying, as if uttering some sort of strange enchantment such as this would result in the entire detainment of my character and I'd be locked up soon. However, I also wished that the priests at my church also inform the church children that they should respect their parents imperial command for them to consist in a moral universe for indeed it would show how you are a much more patriotic person than others, that you deserve a badge of merit in which you have been denying yourself, as if a trifle inclined to being skeptical to the notion that because you viewed some opening of a play that no longer plays on Thursdays, but is actually played on Saturdays, usually also no longer is show in most countries. They decided never to announce this pla yon account of the realization that they weren't excited to be there.


--------------------

No More Stories Are Told Today, I'm Sorry They Washed Away // No More Stories, The World Is Grey, I'm Tired, Let's Wash Away.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19071184 - 11/01/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Ara16w said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
If one person overcomes their childhood traumas then the rest are equally capable.

This comes from shear ignorance imo.  There are so many factors in human psychology that no two people can ever be alike or we all would be.  This kind of black and white view of our human psychology is youthful folly.




That wasn't even an argument. It was just "no" repeated in the form of a lot of trivial words. The basis for human psychology is the same or psychology wouldn't work at all. Every human being starts off the same way, a blank slate. Environment and to a lesser role genetics determines the person they will become.




As an egg maybe they are a blank slate but even in the womb there is cause and effect at work.  No two peoples psychology can be equated due to all the variables and times of traumatic or other events not to mention the role genetics plays.  I've read enough on psychology to at least get that much not to mention 60 years of observing myself and other humans.  I know people who have been desperately trying to change their outlook for 40 years with little practical result. We are basically set in youth for most.  I will admit to seeming exceptions but again I can't say due to the variables of individual psychology.




I already said environment. Is the womb not an environment? People having different problems doesn't mean their minds operate in totally different ways. A human being is a human being and the human mind is a human mind. Implying that we're too weak to deal with our problems is a cop out. I'll grant you your early childhood influences are the most rooted, but they're not irreversible. If someone spent 40 years and got nowhere then they were going about it in a very inefficient way.

Those people that changed dealt with their childhood traumas in a manner in which they got over them. It's no more complicated than that. You have to face things to get over them.

The sad fact is that most of us are crazy. During all the isolation experiments that I've ever seen, the person going through it appears to suffer a severe mental breakdown. The reason for this is simple enough. There's no more distractions. There's just you and most of us are unwilling to face ourselves and thus overcome our traumas.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071200 - 11/01/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

As far as your ecstasy example and the breakdowns, it was lacking too much information for me to reach any conclusion. The dose could have caused it, but a lack of dopamine is the most likely candidate. Once you're out of dopamine there is no being happy. They don't call it Suicide Tuesdays for nothing.


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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: drkkenny]
    #19071229 - 11/01/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Not entirely. A part of me would be pissed off at you that it happened but another part would understand that deep down you didn't do it on purpose, you're lack of love that you displayed was merely a result of the love you failed to receive. Understanding dissipates the former.



Maybe shooting you in the knee cap was an act of compassion... I took time out of my day and money out of my pocket to educate you about the fact that suffering may not always be a choice.

Quote:

Physical pain wasn't the type of suffering that I was referencing, obviously. Even so, if it happened at random and someone I didn't know capped me in the knee for no apparent reason, I'd laugh inside despite the physical pain. It's pretty absurd situation to find yourself in. Something along the lines of, "just another day on planet Earth" would cross my mind and I'd crack up, but not as much so as if I were on shrooms because I'd be less burdened by egotistical nonsense.



Yet, you would still suffer regardless.

Quote:

It sounds to me as though you're taking life too seriously. Where did you ever get that notion?



On the contrary, I am a nihilist. What would be the point?

Quote:

can't argue that someone chose to be born to starve to death any more than you can argue that they didn't. I don't know the specifics of incarnating. However, I do accept that the struggles and hardships of my own life provided me with the greatest opportunities to learn. If everything was perfect, who would seek to change that and thus learn something new?



This supports your argument that suffering is a choice how?
Quote:


Since you seem hell-bent on using the starving to death example, they didn't have to starve to death. You, me, and everyone else on this planet who chose to do nothing about it let them.



This doesn't support your argument that they chose to suffer either. Why did you let them starve to death?


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071262 - 11/01/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Implying that we're too weak to deal with our problems is a cop out.

I never implied any such thing.  I said that to say that everyone can change there outlook is incorrect.  I've lived long enough to see that everywhere I look.  And if they are "doing it wrong" that is neither here nor there.  They are doing the best they can given their abilities. 

Everyone wants to be happy but for some it's not going to happen because of their inner landscape and they don't create that at least in childhood.

Two people trying the same things can get very different results.

So I'm not saying everyone can't change. I'm just saying not everyone can.  If we could we'd all be enlightened buddhas or something.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071273 - 11/01/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
As far as your ecstasy example and the breakdowns, it was lacking too much information for me to reach any conclusion. The dose could have caused it, but a lack of dopamine is the most likely candidate. Once you're out of dopamine there is no being happy. They don't call it Suicide Tuesdays for nothing.





Why would these people be out of dopamine?  How could they be and function in day to day?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19071640 - 11/01/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This thread is a relief. :sun:


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full blown human


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #19071665 - 11/01/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:satansmoking:  Glad you think so.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19071815 - 11/01/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I suggest you stick around awhile...  :douchewink:


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


Edited by Cactilove (11/01/13 07:51 PM)


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InvisibleRaven Gnosis
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19072010 - 11/01/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:

That wasn't even an argument. It was just "no" repeated in the form of a lot of trivial words. The basis for human psychology is the same or psychology wouldn't work at all. Every human being starts off the same way, a blank slate. Environment and to a lesser role genetics determines the person they will become.




What you are talking about is called Tabula Rasa, and it is simply untrue. Albeit, neuro-plasticity allows these things to change over-time with the right conditions.

Mythbusters II: We Do NOT Begin as Blank Slates


--------------------
To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.


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