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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #19068673 - 11/01/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
I keep having the same conversation with my girl every time we trip together.  She just can't let go of the guilt of feeling awesome.  I really don't understand the idea of it?  Just Why?





Did she have a religious upbringing?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070104 - 11/01/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's an underlying problem with self-improvement that I fell victim to. The concept of improving yourself implies that you're never good enough as you are as you exist at that moment. You're always striving to be someone else. How can you love someone you're not satisfied with?

For as much as I learned and changed because of my actions, more or less reflecting on my own life in a way that I relived it and decided what I could handle differently, I was never satisfied because I was always striving to grow as a person. Being unsatisfied is not a viable path to happiness.

Still wanting to evolve, I had to change my mentality to do so with peace of mind, but this wasn't learned until after a long and brutal 8 month period of ego death. To grow as a person doesn't require that you be judgmental towards yourself. When I stopped riding my own ass and let go of the need to become anything, I found that change happened regardless of my desire to change, and interestingly, in a way that I would have wanted to change if I had desired it (to become more loving with all that entails).

It naturally follows that when you learn to accept yourself as you are you'll be more willing to accept others as they are (a loving act). Practice makes perfect.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #19070205 - 11/01/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
I keep having the same conversation with my girl every time we trip together.  She just can't let go of the guilt of feeling awesome.  I really don't understand the idea of it?  Just Why?




I hung out with a friend while he was tripping and he said essentially the same thing. "I don't think that anyone is entitled to this much happiness." It did make me curious where that train of thought was coming from and he is a Christian.

If anything, I think it's guilt to see that all of the world is suffering while realizing that you're no longer having to deal with it. You want to help them but some part of you believes that you should feel what they're feeling in order to do so.

When I trip it's the opposite. I realize they're suffering and feel silly about it because I know it's a choice, merely how you perceive the world. Shrooms obliterate the past and any notion of a future, thus eliminating your burdens while forcing you to live in the moment. Moderate doses are essentially a watered down Oneness experience. The stillness of everything is the same, time slows down rather than stops, and your sense of love for everything is greatly heightened without quite reaching the infinite love state.

In that state of being, it's so hard for me to feel bad. I can ask, "why so sad?" but I can't do it without giggling at how absurd it is that I'm asking while already knowing the answer. Burdens are a bitch that we've been conditioned to accept as normal. "Everyone's got problems." Just because they do doesn't mean that they should. You could let them all go, but it's not such an easy feat to accomplish.


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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070274 - 11/01/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

When I trip it's the opposite. I realize they're suffering and feel silly about it because I know it's a choice, merely how you perceive the world. Shrooms obliterate the past and any notion of a future, thus eliminating your burdens while forcing you to live in the moment. Moderate doses are essentially a watered down Oneness experience. The stillness of everything is the same, time slows down rather than stops, and your sense of love for everything is greatly heightened without quite reaching the infinite love state.




Ya, right. Ignorance is bliss isn't it. If you just said what I think you said then what you just said was painfully naive.


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
    #19070298 - 11/01/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Explain yourself and I'll be happy to respond. It's hard for me to know what you think I said.

Actually, it's the exact of opposite of ignorance being bliss. It's the realization of the truth that brings bliss.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070495 - 11/01/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I realize they're suffering and feel silly about it because I know it's a choice,

How exactly do you know they have a choice in the matter?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070566 - 11/01/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Unless they have a mental illness, and only then a few certain types in that case, then they have a choice in how they perceive the world. It's only through perception that you can perceive suffering.


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InvisibleCactilove
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070675 - 11/01/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Then you wouldn't mind if I capped you in the knee would you? I mean seeing as suffering as a choice, you could choose not to suffer from the pain. Better yet can we air drop you into Ethiopia with no money, no way to get home, and with no food and water. You can totally just choose not to suffer from starvation right? You know because you can satiate your need for food and water with your near infinite love?
Some people are born and all they do is starve to death. That is suffering, are you really going to argue that it is their choice to do so? Out of curiosity have you ever been on the brink of starvation with no way to get food? Do you have any idea how painful that is?


--------------------
Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070817 - 11/01/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
I keep having the same conversation with my girl every time we trip together.  She just can't let go of the guilt of feeling awesome.  I really don't understand the idea of it?  Just Why?





Did she have a religious upbringing?



Ya she was brought up catholic (in fact her sister is becoming a nun), but after all the decent love that was eaten between the 2 of us somewhere along the way she's shed that shell.  But I guess that old "habits" die hard.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
    #19070844 - 11/01/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not entirely. A part of me would be pissed off at you that it happened but another part would understand that deep down you didn't do it on purpose, you're lack of love that you displayed was merely a result of the love you failed to receive. Understanding dissipates the former.

Physical pain wasn't the type of suffering that I was referencing, obviously. Even so, if it happened at random and someone I didn't know capped me in the knee for no apparent reason, I'd laugh inside despite the physical pain. It's pretty absurd situation to find yourself in. Something along the lines of, "just another day on planet Earth" would cross my mind and I'd crack up, but not as much so as if I were on shrooms because I'd be less burdened by egotistical nonsense.

It sounds to me as though you're taking life too seriously. Where did you ever get that notion?

I can't argue that someone chose to be born to starve to death any more than you can argue that they didn't. I don't know the specifics of incarnating. However, I do accept that the struggles and hardships of my own life provided me with the greatest opportunities to learn. If everything was perfect, who would seek to change that and thus learn something new?

Since you seem hell-bent on using the starving to death example, they didn't have to starve to death. You, me, and everyone else on this planet who chose to do nothing about it let them.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070872 - 11/01/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
Unless they have a mental illness, and only then a few certain types in that case, then they have a choice in how they perceive the world. It's only through perception that you can perceive suffering.





I'm afraid that's not quite true.  Unconscious conditions from childhood trauma could easily make choice impossible on a conscious level.  I don't think you know wtf you're talking about.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #19070890 - 11/01/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
I keep having the same conversation with my girl every time we trip together.  She just can't let go of the guilt of feeling awesome.  I really don't understand the idea of it?  Just Why?





Did she have a religious upbringing?



Ya she was brought up catholic (in fact her sister is becoming a nun), but after all the decent love that was eaten between the 2 of us somewhere along the way she's shed that shell.  But I guess that old "habits" die hard.





Especially in childhood patterning, old habits may never die. This is usually the case and explains how people may want to change but ultimately can not or achieve only a very partial change.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070889 - 11/01/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ditto to you. Name such a condition.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070898 - 11/01/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
Not entirely. A part of me would be pissed off at you that it happened but another part would understand that deep down you didn't do it on purpose, you're lack of love that you displayed was merely a result of the love you failed to receive. Understanding dissipates the former.

Physical pain wasn't the type of suffering that I was referencing, obviously. Even so, if it happened at random and someone I didn't know capped me in the knee for no apparent reason, I'd laugh inside despite the physical pain. It's pretty absurd situation to find yourself in. Something along the lines of, "just another day on planet Earth" would cross my mind and I'd crack up, but not as much so as if I were on shrooms because I'd be less burdened by egotistical nonsense.

It sounds to me as though you're taking life too seriously. Where did you ever get that notion?

I can't argue that someone chose to be born to starve to death any more than you can argue that they didn't. I don't know the specifics of incarnating. However, I do accept that the struggles and hardships of my own life provided me with the greatest opportunities to learn. If everything was perfect, who would seek to change that and thus learn something new?

Since you seem hell-bent on using the starving to death example, they didn't have to starve to death. You, me, and everyone else on this planet who chose to do nothing about it let them.





You let them starve to death?  That makes you a pretty nasty individual in my book. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070910 - 11/01/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That argument about childhood circumstances causing old habits to never die is self-defeating. If one person overcomes their childhood traumas then the rest are equally capable. Not wanting to deal with the hell involved with it isn't the same as being incapable. A certain drug that used to be used for therapeutical purposes took the hell out of it, that drug being ecstasy.

Logically, it's not hard to understand how it works either. If your brain releases a shit ton of the feel good chemical then you're not going to be crippled with pain while confronting your issues.


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070915 - 11/01/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Ara16w said:
Not entirely. A part of me would be pissed off at you that it happened but another part would understand that deep down you didn't do it on purpose, you're lack of love that you displayed was merely a result of the love you failed to receive. Understanding dissipates the former.

Physical pain wasn't the type of suffering that I was referencing, obviously. Even so, if it happened at random and someone I didn't know capped me in the knee for no apparent reason, I'd laugh inside despite the physical pain. It's pretty absurd situation to find yourself in. Something along the lines of, "just another day on planet Earth" would cross my mind and I'd crack up, but not as much so as if I were on shrooms because I'd be less burdened by egotistical nonsense.

It sounds to me as though you're taking life too seriously. Where did you ever get that notion?

I can't argue that someone chose to be born to starve to death any more than you can argue that they didn't. I don't know the specifics of incarnating. However, I do accept that the struggles and hardships of my own life provided me with the greatest opportunities to learn. If everything was perfect, who would seek to change that and thus learn something new?

Since you seem hell-bent on using the starving to death example, they didn't have to starve to death. You, me, and everyone else on this planet who chose to do nothing about it let them.





You let them starve to death?  That makes you a pretty nasty individual in my book. :thumbdown:




What was it that you did about it?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070967 - 11/01/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't hold the same opinions about not feeding other humans. 

I consider it a blessing not to feed them cause then they just reproduce and then another round of human suffering. I'm one of the good guys. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070975 - 11/01/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ara16w said:
Ditto to you. Name such a condition.





I did explain it. Any decent psychologist will affirm it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAra16w
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
    #19070977 - 11/01/13 05:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Already refuted that one.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Ara16w]
    #19070984 - 11/01/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If one person overcomes their childhood traumas then the rest are equally capable.

This comes from shear ignorance imo.  There are so many factors in human psychology that no two people can ever be alike or we all would be.  This kind of black and white view of our human psychology is youthful folly.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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