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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all 3
#19045567 - 10/28/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it's much more important to accept life as it is and seek pleasure than try to perfect or better ourselves to some abstract unclear definition of what is "good". I also think that most of those definitions are likely to be flat out bonkers or make believe. Either way, it's not worth the worry or the work. So relax fellow fuck ups.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
#19045628 - 10/28/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ima hab a gapefoot for beckfest.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
#19047120 - 10/28/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: I think it's much more important to accept life as it is and seek pleasure than try to perfect or better ourselves to some abstract unclear definition of what is "good". I also think that most of those definitions are likely to be flat out bonkers or make believe. Either way, it's not worth the worry or the work. So relax fellow fuck ups. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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desert father
Stranger
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
#19053855 - 10/29/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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seek pleasure?
ok dorian grey.
-------------------- vi veri veniversum vivus vici What she said : "I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an Early death AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
#19054052 - 10/29/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: I think it's much more important to accept life as it is and seek pleasure than try to perfect or better ourselves to some abstract unclear definition of what is "good". I also think that most of those definitions are likely to be flat out bonkers or make believe. Either way, it's not worth the worry or the work. So relax fellow fuck ups. 
Yeah I hear that. Why waste time trying to get to acceptance and happiness on the long and potentially misguided route? If I can.... then I will...
Just go straight at it
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
#19054104 - 10/29/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I had this exact same realization today...
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19054217 - 10/29/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree to a degree
The agressive, and I am using this word purposefully - the agressive pursuit of pleasure is degrading
I'm not going to eat an entire cake in a drunken daze - And that makes me better than the person that does.
People who pursuit pleasure agressively create bad karma and destroy the quality of their life.
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: EternalCowabunga]
#19054267 - 10/29/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm not going to eat an entire cake in a drunken daze - And that makes me better than the person that does.
That does not sound pleasurable at all...
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19054294 - 10/29/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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To some people it is 
To some, feeling like shit is pleasurable
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Grapefruit]
#19054661 - 10/29/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I strongly disagree, to a degree.
I 'work' a lot on myself, but not because I have some idea of good or some standard, but because I have suffered a lot in my life and have had a lot of healing to do. I grow ill and suffer more if I don't tend my heavy heart and wounded spirit.
In the past, I have made the mistake of addressing my demons with pleasure, sex, drugs... More than once.
It's effects were no different than the drugs they put me on as a kid for my intense anger, which was born of my inability as a child to articulate the painful and complex emotions I was dealing with.
It treated the symptoms, it did not address the cause.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#19054807 - 10/29/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oops, I disagree actually. I was unclear about the definition of hedonism. I don't believe in an intrinsic good. 
I think seeking maximum pleasure is a valid philosophy. Why not get the most pleasure out of life as possible? Really, provide a logical argument against it.
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19054905 - 10/29/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Is this in response to me or a reply in general about the thread topic?
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#19055576 - 10/30/13 01:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Pleasure doesn't exclusively mean intoxication and sugar and I wasn't using it in that sense. One of the best ways to enhance the amount of pleasure you can get out of life is to accept it as it appears to you IMO. But really I advocate any path that works for the individual. My point was that all too often we are trying to shoot for things just because they seem "morally right" to us or fit an ideal we have in our head, often we don't know this and it leads to pain overall.
Quote:
Yeah I hear that. Why waste time trying to get to acceptance and happiness on the long and potentially misguided route? If I can.... then I will...
Just go straight at it 
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19055649 - 10/30/13 01:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Both.
Quote:
Why not get the most pleasure out of life as possible? Really, provide a logical argument against it.
^^^^^^^ I want an logical argument against that from you specifically or anyone who has one I suppose.
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19056227 - 10/30/13 05:02 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not going to happen
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cactilove
Controversial Mystic


Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 4,826
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Icelander]
#19057123 - 10/30/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Utility principle seems pretty solid to me.
-------------------- Orgone Conclusion...Bringing OTD to PS&P since 2007.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19057612 - 10/30/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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The standards we hold ourselves to completely matter IMO. It's the foundation to our feelings.
We can surrender to the moment and all that jazz but I think it's much easier accepting/being in the moment when I am living within my relative standards. This is a comfort of the sorts and a clinging to the past, but it's part of the growing process IMO.
I ate like shit yesterday, I've been working out a lot and justified to myself that I needed the calories. I ate garbage and I tried accepting the fact I ate garbage. Easier said than done.
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Cactilove]
#19058380 - 10/30/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: Pleasure doesn't exclusively mean intoxication and sugar and I wasn't using it in that sense. One of the best ways to enhance the amount of pleasure you can get out of life is to accept it as it appears to you IMO. But really I advocate any path that works for the individual. My point was that all too often we are trying to shoot for things just because they seem "morally right" to us or fit an ideal we have in our head, often we don't know this and it leads to pain overall.
Indeed, this is exactly why I only disagree to a degree, the aspect I was talking about and you weren't.
People don't like to accept things as they are, and IMO its because much of life really isn't that pretty. In my experience, that just makes things more complicated and difficult.
Quote:
Cactilove said: Both.
Quote:
Why not get the most pleasure out of life as possible? Really, provide a logical argument against it.
^^^^^^^ I want an logical argument against that from you specifically or anyone who has one I suppose.
I really can't muster a genuine logical argument against it as it doesn't challenge or threaten any idea I hold. 
Only arguments I could think of are things I wouldn't personally argue, but could see people from a religiously indoctrinated background arguing.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
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Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: Raven Gnosis]
#19067808 - 11/01/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I keep having the same conversation with my girl every time we trip together. She just can't let go of the guilt of feeling awesome. I really don't understand the idea of it? Just Why?
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
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Raven Gnosis
𝔰𝔢𝔯𝔭𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔠𝔦𝔡𝔞


Registered: 02/10/11
Posts: 1,311
Loc: Necoc Yaotl
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Re: The standards we hold ourselves too matter little if at all [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#19067870 - 11/01/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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One could only speculate... We can never be in her head and know her precise circumstances for feeling the way she does...
It's her trip, both figuratively and literally.
-------------------- To be human is to be fettered, to endure what one is, in perpetuum, no matter what the debility or perversity.
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