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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Enlightenment.
#19044857 - 10/28/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's how I define it. Any person who has completely overcome Death/Impermanence anxiety on all levels conscious and unconscious and including the instinctual fear of death.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
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How about something as simple as letting go of prejudice, social programming, and peer pressure?
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tribesman
Never satisfied



Registered: 11/19/11
Posts: 948
Loc: Down by the river
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Quote:
Icelander said: Here's how I define it. Any person who has completely overcome Death/Impermanence anxiety on all levels conscious and unconscious and including the instinctual fear of death.
On that definition; I tasted enlightenment once, but it didn't stick, and so now all I have is a memory of a state beyond death.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: Yogi1]
#19045441 - 10/28/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yogi1 said: How about something as simple as letting go of prejudice, social programming, and peer pressure?
Nope. However that would be pretty cool.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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By your definition, are you enlightened?
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Withinity
Untitled

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Loc: Côte d’Ivoire
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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: cez]
#19045565 - 10/28/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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By that definition, none of us are enlightened and by taking a gander at the world it does not show proof for us to believe otherwise.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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How do you know no one has overcome death anxiety?
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
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Some psycho has to be enlightened by way of having fucked up brain wiring.
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Withinity
Untitled

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I don't. I'm just speaking for the most part. I wont deny there might be a few people out there that have 'cracked' the system so to speak but i still don't know that for sure even though i believe it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: cez]
#19045605 - 10/28/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: By your definition, are you enlightened?
Not even close.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
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I think of it more as a process that will always continue rather than a goal that can be reached.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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HeartAndMind


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Everyone of us is enlightened in sleep
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
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I think enlightenment means to 'lighten up.' I think one learns through much meditation that impermanence makes ones actions not less important but more important. Each decision is the only time one can make such a decision. At the same time, all shall pass, and during meditation be erased, and what will be left, the self unchanged. Little will be seen to make any substantive difference. And yet that doesn't equate with nihilism. The personality chosen to enact is the one of which ones memories will be ultimately formed - one is ones works. There are various levels of visuals and auditory noise within - these are signs one has a stable Samadhi, and signs of nothing else. The various visions point to unqualifiable awareness without an object. Since one is unqualifiable those who ascribe to you a specific quality are not liberated nor enlightened. Someone who identifies with some type of personality or specific iconage are also not enlightened.
-------------------- ...or something
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago
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Quote:
HeartAndMind said: Everyone of us is enlightened in sleep
Yup haha 
Quote:
Icelander said: Here's how I define it. Any person who has completely overcome Death/Impermanence anxiety on all levels conscious and unconscious and including the instinctual fear of death.
I don't wanna say it is impossible, but I don't think I've ever met anyone who's gotten there.
What I do find interesting though is a parallel between overcoming one's impermanence and letting go of a self/ego that's found throughout many areas of philosophy and thought. If there was no-self to try to make permanent, then there'd be no issue. Obviously, easier said than done though. I take this to be a perceived dualism that there's somehow someone or something separate from the world who fights and struggles against it.
As for the instinctual fear of death, I don't personally think that can be overcome. It's too hardwired into us. But who knows? Any ideas on how to overcome that?
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Yogi1
Squatchin

Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: r72rock]
#19046162 - 10/28/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, be born that way.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: Yogi1]
#19046591 - 10/28/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't want to die horribly but if I was told I would be dead soon I wouldn't really worry. Meanwhile, I don't go worrying about it because life seems to be a purposely designed puzzle of some kind and is full of meaning and interest.
I'm not particularly strong nor have I undergone some special enhancement, I have however attained other levels of everyday life that make it all very interesting, and this is because my mind is a co-creator and a purposely happy mind generates an astounding reality.
If life sucked and all this hadn't happened, this higher consciousness or level(s), of course I would be scared, but it seems pretty safe and playful to me. I don't have all the answers but I've eliminated all the bad possibilities.
This is my simple reasoning: If I am the imagination of myself, if my mind co-creates, if a purposely incited happiness permeates me, and if my body/brain is healing itself faster than usual, and if everything I need is in my choice of mood/consciousness, how can it go wrong from here?
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: eve69]
#19047369 - 10/28/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
eve69 said: I think enlightenment means to 'lighten up.' I think one learns through much meditation that impermanence makes ones actions not less important but more important. Each decision is the only time one can make such a decision. At the same time, all shall pass, and during meditation be erased, and what will be left, the self unchanged. Little will be seen to make any substantive difference. And yet that doesn't equate with nihilism. The personality chosen to enact is the one of which ones memories will be ultimately formed - one is ones works. There are various levels of visuals and auditory noise within - these are signs one has a stable Samadhi, and signs of nothing else. The various visions point to unqualifiable awareness without an object. Since one is unqualifiable those who ascribe to you a specific quality are not liberated nor enlightened. Someone who identifies with some type of personality or specific iconage are also not enlightened.
Have you ever met an enlightened person? How did you know?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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Based on that definition, Jesus Christ would be enlightened because he conquered death and the world. That is why I model my life after him. In exchange, he gives to me peace and wisdom so that I am much less fearful impermenance and death than I used to be. Christ is the source of all life and happiness and it transcends the mind. All else, is the play of maya.
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Yogi1
Squatchin
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Re: Enlightenment. [Re: Deviate]
#19050388 - 10/29/13 04:38 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah that's why he screamed out the infamous "(imaginary) father, why have you forsaken me!!!"
Better luck with someone who actually existed like Gandhi
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 3,910
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
eve69 said: I think enlightenment means to 'lighten up.' I think one learns through much meditation that impermanence makes ones actions not less important but more important. Each decision is the only time one can make such a decision. At the same time, all shall pass, and during meditation be erased, and what will be left, the self unchanged. Little will be seen to make any substantive difference. And yet that doesn't equate with nihilism. The personality chosen to enact is the one of which ones memories will be ultimately formed - one is ones works. There are various levels of visuals and auditory noise within - these are signs one has a stable Samadhi, and signs of nothing else. The various visions point to unqualifiable awareness without an object. Since one is unqualifiable those who ascribe to you a specific quality are not liberated nor enlightened. Someone who identifies with some type of personality or specific iconage are also not enlightened.
Have you ever met an enlightened person? How did you know?
The teachings are to be used or not - therefore enlightenment is a sliding scale as based for oneself in ones own lifestream. Therefore, I have met very very good people, someone better in everything than me (except rabble rousing). I have met people who were deeply peaceful, and people who are truly good. I met a lot of the masters like Bearheart and Shlomo Karlbach and the head of Golden Dawn and Maharishi, and some Lamas. Lamas because they represent Buddhas teaching they are as enlightened as ones understanding of Buddha 
But fully liberated? I wouldn't know. But for me, it doesn't really matter, my following days are gone. I'm too old to care anymore. Now I just do spiritual practice because that's who I am, not because I expect anything at all.
-------------------- ...or something
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