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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Shins]
    #19043141 - 10/27/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

or what if you start your own business and when you do the math it comes out to you making the equivalent of minimum wage. Is society exploiting you? I imagine this line of thinking is what leads to belief in entitlements and victimization


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043173 - 10/27/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Where do you honestly think a CEO paying their employees minimum wage, is making minimum wage themselves?


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 2
    #19043186 - 10/27/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

you seem to think all businesses are large multinational corporations. Most people in this country are employed by small business's where the owners do not make very much money.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043222 - 10/27/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I know for a fact that the majority of people in this country are employed by major multinational corporations. Free market capitalism is exactly what makes it difficult for small company's to survive; because it puts less regulation on the company's that are huge multinational corporations. They are free to buy these smaller company's out and create a monopoly.  In a libertarian society, what keeps a company from creating a monopoly? While we're at it, what keeps a company from clear cutting the forest, or slacking on their oil rig safety?


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 1
    #19043321 - 10/27/13 11:17 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I know for a fact that the majority of people in this country are employed by major multinational corporations


you should really stop lying

Small businesses employ 57% of the country's private workforce

http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-about-small-businesses-in-america-2011-8#small-businesses-employ-57-of-the-countrys-private-workforce-3
(its fact number 3)

and if a business owner decides to sell to another company thats none of your business. Monopolies are created through government intervention constructing barriers to entry. Natural monopolies just couldn't exist, there will always be competition.

Quote:

In a libertarian society, what keeps a company from creating a monopoly? While we're at it, what keeps a company from clear cutting the forest, or slacking on their oil rig safety?



what exactly do you think libertarianism is? It doesn't mean no regulation it just means a lot less of it. Certain environmental regulations would be one of the few.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043380 - 10/27/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

There is Hadley enough regulation now, and you want less. More BP oil spills to come I guess. Fuck all those small business owners who rely on fish from the gulf for their lively hood.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 3
    #19043398 - 10/27/13 11:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

are you fucking kidding me? we have incredible amounts of regulation in this country. I can't fucking drive down the road with lumber in the back of my truck without getting a permit first. And you are aware that the oil spill was due to a lack of enforcement on regulation right? We have plenty of regulation, the regulators are just all bought and paid for.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught] * 3
    #19043412 - 10/27/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

im gonna go out on a limb here and say that you don't have a whole lot of first hand business experience. When children can't operate a lemonade stand without getting permits and licensing, you have too much regulation


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043456 - 10/27/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
are you fucking kidding me? we have incredible amounts of regulation in this country. I can't fucking drive down the road with lumber in the back of my truck without getting a permit first. And you are aware that the oil spill was due to a lack of enforcement on regulation right? We have plenty of regulation, the regulators are just all bought and paid for.




This first little rant has nothing to do with Environmental protection.
Your right about the second part, the inspectors are all bought out to stay  silent and write a good report. Same with most health inspectors to restaurants. I've worked for over 10 fast food chains and service restaurants in my day, and they're all disguising. Somehow always managed to get a 98-99% on their health grade. How do you suppose regulating less is going to fix any of this, it will just make it worse.    When it comes to carbon admissions and energy companies; we need MUCH more regulation. Did you forget that its scientifically proven that humans are changing the climate of the planet at a alarming rate?


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Edited by Smokey420 (10/28/13 12:42 AM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 3
    #19043484 - 10/27/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so excessive regulation isn't working. Therefore we should throw more regulation at it. what is it they say about insanity? And thats real mature of you, i hold a different opinion so you try to paint me as a climate change denier hahaha in case your reading comprehension skills aren't up to snuff i already said that we environmental regulation was one of the areas i did agree with.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043528 - 10/28/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've never herd a Libertarian say they wanted more environmental regulations. If you're the first that's great, but you're certainly the minority.
I don't necessarily think there should be more number of regulations. I Think there needs to be different regulations that more effectively deal with the corruption with in any given industry. I Think we need regulations that prevent CEOs from making ungodly amounts of cash, while their workers can hardly afford to pay their rent.  I also think we need laws which prevent these corporations from lobbying the goverment and getting laws passed in their favor.


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Edited by Smokey420 (10/28/13 12:06 AM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 1
    #19043582 - 10/28/13 12:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

theres plenty of libertarians that think the environment is one of the few areas government should be a part of. CEO's should be able to make as much money as their company allows them to. And as far as lobbying a agree theres a problem. But my solution is just shrink the government, the less power there is the less power available for purchase.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 1
    #19043590 - 10/28/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Its in a companies best interest to care about the environment the leftist scare tactics that they want a barren earth is simply false.


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043675 - 10/28/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Its in a companies best interest to care about the environment the leftist scare tactics that they want a barren earth is simply false.



If that's true, then why do we keep getting environmental disasters because of a company's negligence? Why do logging companies continue to clear cut the rain forest? Why do nuclear power company's build their plants close to fault lines? The list goes on here.. Profits come before everything in a free market.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 1
    #19043694 - 10/28/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smokey420 said:
I'd just like to point this out again. When you don't pay someone enough to make ends meet doing their full-time job, their only option is welfare




No, it isn't.  How about their option of going to school and learning a skill that pays more?  Or how about for young people, join the military?  Don't tell me 'people have no money for school' because their are all kinds of grants and loans, and a lot of people work doing shit jobs SO THEY CAN GO TO SCHOOL rather than give up and say the government/company owes them a living.

Quote:

Smokey420 said:

For the company to take responsibility for paying their employees enough money to survive in the city they live in.






The company doesn't have to even HIRE anyone, much less pay them enough to survive on.  Whose money is it?  THe companies.  Maybe its a small company, and the owner put all his own money into it.  What right does anyone have to say he shouldn't make too much money?  He took the risk with his money.  If you force companies to pay a lot they leave. 

Now, if you want to play that 'income equality game' OK.  Tell me why I shouldn't have all the perks and priviledges, as well as the salary, of the President?  After all, it isn't fair, he makes a lot more than me.  C'mon, tell me why I can't have what he has?


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19043776 - 10/28/13 01:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If everyone in the world could magically afford to go to college, and magically they all created their own business; who would work for them?
A capitalist society demands that there is someone for those mundane jobs.

Not everyone in poverty can afford to go to school, and the majority of them wind up in debt the rest of their life.  If they can't make enough money from their job, and they're denied welfare, they end up homeless . 44% of all homeless people are still employed, but they're forced to live under the highway, or in a tent. Hundreds of homeless die every winter in my city when the shelter cant fit anymore.  Maybe its too radical an idea for you squares to believe, but I think having  a job should be an escape from poverty.  I believe that it doesn't matter where you put in your 40 hours. You deserve to be treated like a human being. You deserve medicine when you're sick, because there are stockpiles of it in a warehouse. Just because some ass hole wants to make a profit on your sickness; You deserve to to be healthy. I believe in the wealthiest country in the world, it's a crime to let any child go hungry.

Shelter- Human Right.
Food and Water- Human Right.
Health Care- Human Right.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420]
    #19043832 - 10/28/13 01:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
i imagine you very much agree with a saying like this correct?


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043847 - 10/28/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yes I do.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: Smokey420] * 1
    #19043865 - 10/28/13 01:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

congratulations your a communist


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OfflineSmokey420
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Re: Libertarian discussions (both for and against) [Re: psyconaught]
    #19043906 - 10/28/13 01:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not really, technically I'm a Libertarian Syndicalist.
Did you really think i haven't read Marx tho, you going to trick me? lol.


If you're interested in what that means:


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Edited by Smokey420 (10/28/13 01:42 AM)


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