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Offlinetrippymcballs
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Registered: 10/07/13
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Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons
    #19042454 - 10/27/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I know there are many religions that use some form of drug in a ritualistic or spiritual sense for example Rastafarian and ayahuasca rituals. I find that under the influence of cannabis i am more thoughtful and positive which allows me to reach revelations of the current state of my life without focusing on the negativity that tends to hold me back in day to day life. The use of psychedelic drugs mainly psylocybin  mushrooms also tend to help me relax and find some inner peace. But my question is this where does the spiritual use of these substances to find inner peace and recreational drug use meet? What is the difference between using them in a spiritual and medicinal sense rather than just coming home after work and smoking a joint to relax. I limit myself to natural substances for either endeavor in order to preserve that temple that is my body and to prohibit the substances i use from becoming strictly recreational. Does anyone else here do something similar and if so how do you use them?


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OfflineWithinity
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Re: Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons [Re: trippymcballs]
    #19044044 - 10/28/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I cant speak for Religion, but i remember having the same findings with my use of marijuana in the beginning , i was able to maintain a positive mindset and my thoughts would be enhanced to some extent. Though same as everything without right balance and moderation their is a fine line between the tilt of scales. I soon discovered the negative side to the beloved greens as i became more and more reliant on it to 'feel good' so to speak. Before too long i was hooked and those once positive effects had nearly vanished.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons [Re: Withinity]
    #19044279 - 10/28/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've meditated for thirty years and started drug use three years before that. I won't go into my personal odyssey here but I'll give you my drug conclusions. I've learned to sum them up because you asked probably the most often asked question around these parts.

Natural drugs are the overflow of goodness of The Goddesses flesh.  Maryjane is her pubic hair, a sexy little drug which is great for empathy and sex, and pacifism. It's a very feminine drug. I love it. But I also try to keep it between 50% or less use. I make myself go straight between weeks high so I can get some spiritual work done. Weed in the long term makes me slightly negative in fact. I am most positive when I'm totally straight.

The other naturals have some built in cautions because nature is most deadly. But aya, shrooms, amas, poppy, torch, and so on these are truly important plants which I believe go hand in hand with all visionary upheavals and with phases of human invention.

But they are substances and they cannot make you something you are not. I used them to get through the unhappiness and pain of my daily grind and dealing with pressure.  I finally had to change my life around so I wouldn't have to use drugs (I loved weed and poppy the most - I gave up opioids entirely - they are specifically against all tantric vows - which include not taking anything which lends to unconsciousness).

Whether substances enhance your personal visionary sequence is something you are lucky you can still do - the internet has a due date for personal liberty, I feel.  I mean, just this last week the Silk Roads guy got 28 million dollars he made off that site confiscated by the feebs in bitcoin. They said it was first bitcoin bust.


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OfflineRool Kat
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Re: Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons [Re: trippymcballs]
    #19047105 - 10/28/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You've definitely received some very thoughtful replies already, great food for thought for anyone.  Thanks for starting the thread, even if the ground has been covered exhaustively already.

Another point of view.  I'm a buddhist (small b).  I never became a buddhist, but in '74, I stumbled across a book about the beginnings of Buddhism following the Buddha's gift to the world of the "Four Noble Truths."

What caught my attention was the Buddha's warning to take nothing on faith alone, not even his, without determining for yourself whether they were true enough.

I bring that to the table, not to proselytize but because Buddhism is famous for its insistence on abstaining from any mind-altering substances.  I personally believe that this was added (or perhaps just much more heavily emphasized) by the people who came after the death of Buddha and recognize it as a warning about the peril and not an absolute prohibition.  (YMMV, no problem)

Consider also the universally recognized determinants of the quality of a psychedelic experience; these being "Set" and "Setting."  As setting is not involved by your question, take a look at what Set is comprised of.

The first, and maybe most important is Intent.  Next come the others, your beliefs about the experience to come, your expectations, and your mind-state as you go into it.

I believe that the difference between smoking a joint to relax and focus on a spiritual issue (including personal growth) and smoking a joint with a group of friends, is entirely in your mind and determined entirely by your intent. 

I don't see either intent as negative, per se.  But YMMV and that's cool too.

Also with respect to your discussion leading up to your question, I see the purpose of life being to live it as fully as you are able.  If your circumstances limit your ability to do that, as long as you draw breath, there remains something that you can do.  If so, one focuses on that and ignores what cannot be changed. 

That means to say pleasure should not be seen as a sin or any kind of bad thing; it just has to be understood that it is not either the only thing, or even the primary thing; rather it should be seen simply as one of the good things in life neither to be chased nor avoided but taken and appreciated as it comes.  And not clung to when it passes.

But all that is, as I said, just another point of view, not offered as a universal truth, just the way I see life and your questions.


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons [Re: trippymcballs]
    #19047359 - 10/28/13 05:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's interesting what you say about drawing the line between recreational and spiritual. I've been thinking about that lately too. Is there really anything more spiritual than recreation?


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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19051417 - 10/29/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This is a topic in which I have explored a great deal personally but without can only share my experience but for me, marijuana has been both very harmful and very helpful to me spiritually. It was harmful when I used it not really understanding the spiritual path (in fact I was atheist when I began using it) and when I was using it out of addiction rather than a real need. You see, I believe you must have a spiritual practice outside of psychedelic use in order to really utilize their potential.

Musrhooms and LSD are great also but for me, far less valuable than marijuana because they cannot be used often enough to keep me focused on the spiritual world without. The main thing they did for me, was hekp awaken me the beauty and divinity of God.

My personal opinion which is more a guess than an opinion, is that God created things like marijuana and magic mushrooms as spiritual medicine for us humans. Ideally, they should be used in a ritualistic way under the guidance of folks who are familiar with how to use them to enhance spiritual growth.

Like all powerful medicines they are not without risks and in the case of psychedelics, their risks are primarily psychologcial and spiritual in nature. There is a risk of misunderstanding the experience(s) and as a result, forming seriously erroneous ideas about reality which will hamper ones life and spiritual growth. With proper guidance, this risk should be able to be greatly reduced. Another risk is becoming obsessed with psychedelics, this happened to me as well as many other people I know of and it is very unproductive although it usually ends up being a phase which one grows out of although it can take many years in some cases. There is a risk of psychological harm, I actually knew a kid who suffered mental health issues after tripping on mushrooms too often, although I believe he had some sort of depososition to mental illness. He began believing all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories and one day he told me that he was Jesus Christ. He would also do the strangest things while tripping, like riding his bike naked while claiming to have relevations about how life worked. After a stint in a mental hosptial he regained his sanity only to lose it again after relapsing on shrooms, then recovering it after a second stint in the mental hospital. Obviously that sort of thing is very rare and I believe it is the sort of thing which would never happen had he been using the drugs under the supervision of a competent and qualified guide.

However, what is far more of a real possibility is the potential of having some deep spiritual revelation, which you are not yet ready for. And I believe that this is why psychedelic drug use is not more heavily endorded by religion. If psychedelics were really the answer, then Buddha would have said, psychedelics. Eat the psychedelics. Our Lord and savior Jesus Christ would have handed out magical mushrooms as his body and ayahuasca as his blood to institute the holy eucharist. But if that the were the case,  imagine how different Christianity would look. I can see some of you greedily licking your lips at the thought but in my opinion, there is a reason why psychedelics aren't given a place of honor, sacredness or extreme importance in most of the worlds religions and that reason is because, although they are undervalued and underused right now, they simply aren't all that important when it comes to leading a spiritual life, either. The spiritual use of psychedelics tends to create an attachment to psychedelics which then proves very difficult to get rid of, since it cannot be gotten rid of through the use of more psychedelics.

But going back to the unwanted spiritual experience thing I mentioned above, not only can be this very damaging to a soul, as it disrupts its very fragile sense of identity (which can take years to repair) it can also lead one to fear God in a very unhealthy manner. I am going to post some sacred scripture which I believe is relevant to this question:

John Chapter 10:
“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but the Pharisees did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.


From Mathew chapter 11

"From the days of John the Baptist until the present, the kingdom from heaven has been forcefully advancing, and violent people have been attacking it. "

Matthew 22:1–14

The Parable of the Wedding Feast

22 And again Jesus ospoke to them in parables, saying, 2 p“The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave qa wedding feast for his son, 3 and rsent his servants1 to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come. 4 sAgain he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my tdinner, umy oxen and my fat calves have been slaughtered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding feast.” ’ 5 But vthey paid no attention and went off, one to his farm, another to his business, 6 while the rest seized his servants, wtreated them shamefully, and xkilled them. 7 The king was angry, and he sent his troops and ydestroyed those murderers and burned their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding feast is ready, but those invited were not zworthy. 9 Go therefore to the main roads and invite to the wedding feast as many as you find.’ 10 And those servants went out into the roads and bgathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there ca man who had no wedding garment. 12 And he said to him, d‘Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the attendants, ‘Bind him hand and foot and ecast him into the outer darkness. In that place ethere will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ 14 For many are fcalled, but few are chosen.”

Now, the way I interpret these verses is that in order to enter the kingdom of God, we must become righteous. If we try to enter all filled with sin, we will be cast out. And that is why we cant enter through a marijuana plant or a mushroom, while these plants can break down our walls and our barriers thus allowing us to glimpse the kingdrom of heaven, they do not make us fit for the kigndom of heaven. That is our job. This is why Jesus says we msut enter heaven through him, not through a plant or a mushroom, which can be fooled but through a ;'0, the eternal son of God who cannot be fooled and will notice any imperfection in our soul

So, essentially the spiritual path is about groiwng in both love and wisdom. Pshedelics can flash these states of love and wisdom before us but as soon as God sees we didnt get there based on merit, he will throw us out. God insists that we freely choose Him. Taking a drug that fixes everything for us sounds like a great idea, until you realize what it is that needs to be fixed. Then you see that it is something which you actualy have total control over (how much you love) and taking a drug to try to make yourself love more is rather odd.

So if psychedelics are unecessary why am I so enthusiastic about them? its quite simple. I believe they have tremendous application as psychological and spiritual medicine. medicine is for the sick and not for the well.

Psychedelics are incredibly powerful medicine which can grant wisdom to a soul lost in ignorance and sin, thus empowering itself to reclaim its frreedom. I believe that this, for healing, mainly the healing of psychological wounds through divine relevation of higher love and truth, is the priomary purpose for which the Lord our God created psychedelics. The experiences they induce are  a testament his glory. Who who has truly tripped cannot say that our God is a God of glory?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Using psychoactive drugs for meditation and spiritual reasons [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19051443 - 10/29/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
It's interesting what you say about drawing the line between recreational and spiritual. I've been thinking about that lately too. Is there really anything more spiritual than recreation?




Yes, there is love for God and neighbor. According to the Bible, all wisdom begins in fear of the Lord. While it is certainly true that one can reach states of pure ecstacy through worshipping the Lord, i wouldnt exactly call such a holy endeavor "recreation" which is a word that  has come to mean (in my mind away) 2 adults casually plaing table tennis in the basement of the resort theyve spent a fortune to go to. This is much different, from the selfless "recreation" of the saints, who receive more joy when they give then when they erceive.


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