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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Destroy Currency?
    #19041917 - 10/27/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Considering that we live in a world where most of us work for no reason other than to perpetuate the capitalist price mechanism, I ask, should we switch from our current system? 

Instead, should the means of production be put in the public domain?  Everything we need would be provided by the community, instead of having to buy it from private companies.  So instead of paying taxes, we would work probably something in the area of 500 hours a year, to support the needs of the community. 

That would solve our problem of overconsumption and wasteful consumption.  It would mean nobody has to worry about finding a job anymore.  And finally, it would liberate us from the unsustainable need for exponential economic growth.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19041925 - 10/27/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

fuck yes. But you would also lose progress. Ie. new technologies' incentive is consumers waiting to buy the latest shit


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: topdog82]
    #19041955 - 10/27/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

So if I was ever successful in creating a moneyless US state, such as Vermont, you would consider living there?

You would lose alot of consumer technology.  But I think we would gain other, possibly more valuable technology because more resources could be directed toward it.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042006 - 10/27/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DestroyCurrency said:
So if I was ever successful in creating a moneyless US state, such as Vermont, you would consider living there?

You would lose alot of consumer technology.  But I think we would gain other, possibly more valuable technology because more resources could be directed toward it.



true. I would join you

Iam just saying there are pros and cons to removing money. I can see why there would be a lot minuses to money. But there are pluses too

I dont have enough knowledge or expericnece to decude if removing money would be good on aworldwide scale

ie communism seems pretty cool in theory. But practically it didnt do much


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: topdog82]
    #19042240 - 10/27/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Probably one of the big positives of using currency is that it gives you freedom of choice that you wouldn't have in a control-moneyless state.  Like you wouldn't be free to open your own business.  But you would have more freedom in terms of work because you wouldn't be limited to one type of work.  You could do a different job every week.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042300 - 10/27/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It seems like you've never heard of communism.  :strokebeard:


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InvisibleAWS
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042372 - 10/27/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You want to live in a medieval paradise?


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: AWS]
    #19042384 - 10/27/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

fire the greedy bankers,



as unlikely a task it would be...

:slave:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Hobozen]
    #19042438 - 10/27/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
fire the greedy bankers,





They are certainly greedy and power hungry people in communes. Both Ice and I have witnessed it. The outward structure reflects what is already within us.


--------------------


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InvisibleHobozen
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19042462 - 10/27/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The outward structure reflects what is already within us.




This is a sad thing.

I'm going to go weep now. :sad:


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Hobozen]
    #19042581 - 10/27/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blankk said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
The outward structure reflects what is already within us.




This is a sad thing.

I'm going to go weep now. :sad:



WERD (to both)


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Invisiblelighthouse09
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: topdog82]
    #19042618 - 10/27/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it does seem removing money wouldn't change anything but someday maybe we will change and wont require money anymore...someday..... someday...cheers to that whuile we wait.....
...............still waitin............


--------------------
<--This fuckin guy


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042624 - 10/27/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Of course I have, but this wouldn't quite work the same as the Leninist state.  That's why I think it will work.  Lenin required everybody to work a set number of hours, regardless if they needed to do that much work.  But the big difference is that Lenin kept the concept of currency and the price mechanism.  I believe that if Lenin did away with currency (and if he was less authoritarian) that he would've succeded.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042669 - 10/27/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Of course, we all know the problem with communism was only that we didn't quite get the formula right. If the last attempt killed 70,000,000 people then there enough people left still to give it 100 more tries.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042674 - 10/27/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DestroyCurrency said:
But the big difference is that Lenin kept the concept of currency and the price mechanism.




How would this function without it?  People would still need to trade.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042715 - 10/27/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
Quote:

DestroyCurrency said:
But the big difference is that Lenin kept the concept of currency and the price mechanism.




How would this function without it?  People would still need to trade.



we could just have people give rations. Like food, clothes, and a small amount of cash for alc, weed, phones, extranoues things


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: topdog82]
    #19042719 - 10/27/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This is still just communism but with bartering instead of currency.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042727 - 10/27/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
This is still just communism but with bartering instead of currency.



I think we should have currency personally. Just give it a much more downplayed importance


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042739 - 10/27/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Based on my calculations, in a small state like Vermont, it would be economically possible to freely give everybody most of what you need (food, clothes, healthcare, education, cars, roads, phones, weed, etc) if everybody works 500 hours a year.  Thats less than 1/4 of what most people work in a year right now (2000+ hours)


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042749 - 10/27/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Where did I mention bartering?  Well I guess you could consider it barter, your bartering your time to the state in exchange for goods and services you need.  But its not like your going to the doctor and trading chickens for healthcare.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042759 - 10/27/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, so how do we decide who serves what function?  Is every member of the community going to be a jack of all trades?


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042782 - 10/27/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not everybody has to do everything, but people can do more than one job within the community.  Higher skilled people probably will only do one job though, since their skills are needed in that area.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042790 - 10/27/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What if that job that they are specialized for is harder?  Why should someone build skyscrapers if they get the same reward for making quilts?

I still don't see the difference from communism.


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19042830 - 10/27/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thats why I was considering a credit system in which people get "extra credit" for the harder jobs.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19042841 - 10/27/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

How is this "credit" system any different from the current monetary system? Seems exactly that same.


--------------------
full blown human


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OfflineDestroyCurrency
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #19043044 - 10/27/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

First, I didn't say for sure that there would be a credit system, but if there was, everybody would get all of the previously mentioned things for free, but skilled workers could get "extra credit" that they could use for whatever they wanted.  But yeah, that is kind of like the money system.  But if there is no "extra credit" system, then people say its too communist.


--------------------
Earth is abundant with plentiful resources.  Our practice of rationing resources through monetary control is no longer relevant and counter-productive to our survival. - Jaque Fresco


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19043750 - 10/28/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

In order to help you make your dream a reality, I will take all of your current currency off your hands. :yesnod:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19043839 - 10/28/13 01:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DestroyCurrency said:
Of course I have, but this wouldn't quite work the same as the Leninist state.  That's why I think it will work.  Lenin required everybody to work a set number of hours, regardless if they needed to do that much work.  But the big difference is that Lenin kept the concept of currency and the price mechanism.  I believe that if Lenin did away with currency (and if he was less authoritarian) that he would've succeded.



:curbyourenthusiasm: IMO you understand very little about human nature.  But that's often youthful folly.  Lenin was not the reason he didn't succeed. It was all the greedy little humans in the state.  Guys just like you and me. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: DestroyCurrency]
    #19043848 - 10/28/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DestroyCurrency said:
Thats why I was considering a credit system in which people get "extra credit" for the harder jobs.





Everyone is going to want you to consider their job "harder" for various reasons.  The toilet cleaner has the hardest job.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinekrishh
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: Icelander]
    #19044218 - 10/28/13 03:39 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

an idea good in intention and actually doesn't seem too bad at first.

however we must realize, money is not intrinsically evil! money is just one of the most obvious tools of the ego, and all the harm that it has done is all the harm that a race that is still living in ego minded seperatness will inevitably do to itself.

i tell you, the only REAL solution starts from within! the deepestt purest of solutions starts at the deepest point of the underlying problem. and guess where that is? the inner beings of each and every one of ourselves! the condition of society and man today is merely a manifestation of the conditions/mindsets of the majority's innerbeings. so sadly, there is no external solution. deleting the thing called money as you propose will only change the name and face of this controlling, self destroying, divisive entity created by our egos. just as this is true for the individual self, it is true for the mass collection of selves in our world. its crazy and awesome when you can see the parallels between how the individual mind's ego uses division, fear, and control and how our culture/society uses it. of course it all starts at the individual.

when we have reached a higher vibrational state on our planet, when the majority is not living in ego and fear but rather living in spirit and love, in reality and knowledge of their own beings, then we wont need any solutions. i doubt money would be a problem in this future.

as i said before, the problem is internal in its true nature, and if you think about it on a smaller scale it literally comes down to the level of you and me. how can we reach this point I spoke of just before? become more in touch with your own being and heart, and in the process spread love and compassion onto others. this is the simplest thing you can do. it is within compassion that these brilliant selfless agents of inspiration and change arise such as gandhi and MLK. in spreading love and helping others reach their full potential/realization in being, you become just another ripple in the wave of evolved consciousness. thus one step closer to the uniting of all humanity.

basically what i was trying to get across earlier was that changign the system countless ways wont ultimately solve the money problem(or most others), the people need to change in order for systems to change around them. 

as time goes on we should see money and power and controlling agents have less and less of a hold on humanity. and this will happen as fast as you, me, and every other individual wises up to greater truth. so don't tackle problems externally. don't think the quest for humanity to reach peace, harmony, and understanding is any different than you're own internal quest to reach peace, harmony, and understanding. even if you can't connect it, they are one in the same. the more you work on yourself the more equipped you are to help others. the less fear we have the more we allow one another to have less fear. the more you are spiritually realized and are "in" love, the more you will allow others to become realized and experience love/unity. in my mind this is how a consciousness revolution works.as an optimist, I do believe humanity will reach harmony (relative to now) before we end up killing eachother/the planet :smile:

sorry that im ranting/preaching. i just get a little excited as I dont get to discuss these ideas to many - ok - anyone(and I just jooined wooooo :smile:)


Edited by krishh (10/28/13 03:47 AM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: krishh]
    #19044228 - 10/28/13 03:43 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

when we have reached a higher vibrational state on our planet




When we can move objects solely with our minds, when bullets bounce off our chests and we can fly without the aid of machines...

WTF kind of New Age crap are you spouting? What makes you believe in this totally fictional future?

What if we abandoned 'what if' type scenarios and dealt with actual reality?


--------------------


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Offlinekrishh
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19044322 - 10/28/13 04:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i use the word vibration as a metaphysical term to describe consciousness. higher vibrational = larger consciousness. i'm not retarded and i realize the difference between abstractness and practicality. please be respectful and dont treat me like a lunatic, lol

sorry, i realize now you guys were probably werent looking for such abstract and prospective inquiries. still i believe our struggles with money is just another symptom of a sick people. mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.  and its not fictional, its happening now, and really has been happening throughout history. our consciousness is evolving. this is reality dude. do you not agree that problems must be solved inside out at all? things dont change until we do.
i get what ur saying, we want to hear practical things. "tell me what i can do right now to make things better" and while i'm not labeling this attitude completely useless, if ur looking for the "secret formula" to solve such huge problems today such as money and distribution of wealth, truth is ur not gonna find it in the current paradigm and way of thinking/being today. THERE IS NONE that will work with the people of today. the people that hand over millions to celebrities and worship lives of extravagance and excess, all the while letting our brothers in africa die of literal starvation. Things dont change until we do.

my language use might have made u a bit uncomfortable and i understand.  but i urge you to not label things so quickly to dismiss it. im sure this will sound like mindless gibberish to some, but i assume on a site like this it will communicate to at least some!


Edited by krishh (10/28/13 04:49 AM)


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: Destroy Currency? [Re: krishh]
    #19044372 - 10/28/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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