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Offlinefunkerdslr
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: StygianKnight]
    #19043188 - 10/28/13 12:44 AM (4 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Quite interesting.
The places I know that use SCCO2 do so mostly in their baking.  I knew the setup was expensive but I didn't realize so few places use it.
While it's probably on the site you posted, do you know if there are different pull rates/percentages for different cannabinoids?





When it comes to the % of extract by weight, you're generally looking at two factors. the first is diameter of holding tube, this directly correlates to pressure because the narrower and longer the tube the more pressure will build up as you run N-tane through it. The more pressure you have in your tube, the higher the yield will be because you're forcing everything out, including shit you don't want. pressure isnt always a good thing if your starting material sucks. 

Keep in mind though that you can only extract as much THC-A/CBD-A/CBN as in the starting material, so if you load a bunch of shit starting material into a long narrow tube, you'll extract all the cannabinoids the first run, but also get shit dark oil because of all the non actives being forced through the tube by the pressure.

Using a wider tube will extract less of the total cannabinoids per run, but will also produce much clearer and cleaner oil because there's no pressure forcing the chlorophyll and other waxes down and out into your pyrex.

the second factor in return is the temperature of your material. Colder material will hold onto its lipids and chlorophyll better, but again makes it harder for butane to penetrate and dissolve the trich glands so colder material has to be run 2-3 times to get everything out of it.

All cannabinoids readily disolve in non-polar solvents like butane, so as long as you have enough volume of butane passing over the trichs for long enough, you'll extract 95% of everything active by the 2rd run if you're open blasting.

We use a closed loop setup that reclaims butane and soaks the material at 50psi for 15 minutes before it's released into the holding tank at the bottom and the butane is xferd to the other tank.

Here's my extractor (and shoe hah)


--------------------
RIP Alice

<3 Chinacat72 <3


Edited by funkerdslr (10/28/13 01:19 AM)


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OfflineForestBellows
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: funkerdslr]
    #19133140 - 11/13/13 10:15 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Holy shit, thanks for the detailed answer! That cleared up a lot I have been unclear on. Love your concentrate posts, seems like you got it dialed in.. I'm a lil jealous!


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OfflineGodfather1376
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: ElVatoFirme]
    #19133313 - 11/13/13 10:48 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Don't believe what most tests, especially 90% ones on their accuracy. Some labs Seperate THC-V and THC-A, while others put them together for higher numbers...Tell me, if you have 92% THC-A/V, do you really think that it is accurate? Between terpines, lipids, and other things, numbers in reality in a Liquid Chromatography lab are far different. Now if the oil is winterized to remove lipids and other particulates, maybe a high 80-90% can be legitimately seen.

As for Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil, there needs to be some clarification.

Wax and Oil are the exact same thing done with (mostly) the exact same process. Dark, gooey oil is the result of overcooking when making wax. When I would burn my shatter when I began blasting BHO, it became "honey oil". Honey oil is great for edibles, because all THC-V is turned into THC-A when cooked with the food. However, for a tasty, stony hash hit, oil is NOT the way to go.

Wax comes in 2 (3 i suppose) textures. Shatter, Earwax, and Honeycomb. Honeycomb is basically earwax but done with a better process. Shatter can be done cheaply and still be good, but with a pro setup like for honeycomb, you get better results.

Traditional bubble hash, IMO, is much like BHO but is harder to technically find, especially fullmelt. Most water extracts I find bubble a little to none at all, and have just the generic "hash" taste. Whether it is bubble or BHO, good hash tastes like the material it came from. At least with bubble, you can tell it's quality just by taking a lighter to it. It starts boiling, it's bueno. The more it can boil down, the better the extract is.

I know you said you'll have a pen and a rig, but I do have an extra tip on that. Unless you are actually going somewhere, try to take a good dab out of your rig. The pen is really meant to let a little bit go for many hits, not take one hit that would be about 1/2 the pen full. With a decent nail setup, I've taken .25g dabs before, and even a .5g, although that is not often lol, as you usually are coughing and sweating after those kinds of dabs. My point is that .1 instantly ingested with give you a nice punch instead of ripping and using up half your pen (if it holds ~.2) when your at home and have to charge it again soon. The pen IMO is for when you are going somewhere and don't want to have to bring your rig along.


Sources: Years of growing and extracting, listening to fellow BHO extractors, and two years blasting with BHO.


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OfflineGodfather1376
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: funkerdslr]
    #19133344 - 11/13/13 10:52 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

funkerdslr said:
Quote:

StygianKnight said:
Quite interesting.
The places I know that use SCCO2 do so mostly in their baking.  I knew the setup was expensive but I didn't realize so few places use it.
While it's probably on the site you posted, do you know if there are different pull rates/percentages for different cannabinoids?





When it comes to the % of extract by weight, you're generally looking at two factors. the first is diameter of holding tube, this directly correlates to pressure because the narrower and longer the tube the more pressure will build up as you run N-tane through it. The more pressure you have in your tube, the higher the yield will be because you're forcing everything out, including shit you don't want. pressure isnt always a good thing if your starting material sucks. 

Keep in mind though that you can only extract as much THC-A/CBD-A/CBN as in the starting material, so if you load a bunch of shit starting material into a long narrow tube, you'll extract all the cannabinoids the first run, but also get shit dark oil because of all the non actives being forced through the tube by the pressure.

Using a wider tube will extract less of the total cannabinoids per run, but will also produce much clearer and cleaner oil because there's no pressure forcing the chlorophyll and other waxes down and out into your pyrex.

the second factor in return is the temperature of your material. Colder material will hold onto its lipids and chlorophyll better, but again makes it harder for butane to penetrate and dissolve the trich glands so colder material has to be run 2-3 times to get everything out of it.

All cannabinoids readily disolve in non-polar solvents like butane, so as long as you have enough volume of butane passing over the trichs for long enough, you'll extract 95% of everything active by the 2rd run if you're open blasting.

We use a closed loop setup that reclaims butane and soaks the material at 50psi for 15 minutes before it's released into the holding tank at the bottom and the butane is xferd to the other tank.

Here's my extractor (and shoe hah)





Very informative, good to see someone with some closed loop experience able to give their 2c, I am yet to get to play with such a setup.


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: Godfather1376]
    #19136080 - 11/14/13 02:54 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Glad this was re-visited :smile:


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Offlinefunkerdslr
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19136157 - 11/14/13 03:16 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Today is slow, so i decided to run a little experiment. I'm dewaxing 130 grams of really dirty  BHO (worst Green Crack trim imaginable, 8% total return by weight) in ethanol and then spit the samples into 3 groups. I'll process those 3 groups into wax,shatter, and a decarboxilated sap. Once they're all purged down to 50PPM and below ill lab test them to get a quantitative view on the differences between the 3.

This is going to be an interesting experiment to see if the process of making wax,shatter and oil changed= the cannabinoid, terpenoid, and RS profiles of the finish medicine. Since its all the same starting material and it was all blasted the same, the results should be on point.

I would love to know this for myself, we primarily only produce shatters, but if the wax comes back with high marks, we'll start looking into making more top shelf waxes.


On that waxy note, i think its about time to get that Ti heated up.  :fuckyeahdance:


--------------------
RIP Alice

<3 Chinacat72 <3


Edited by funkerdslr (11/14/13 03:18 PM)


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OfflineSunshineDaydream
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: funkerdslr]
    #19136279 - 11/14/13 03:56 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

i like hash the most out of that list...but i honestly enjoy just smoking really good buds out of glass over any other method.  :vaped:


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Offlinemattritt
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: SunshineDaydream]
    #19137364 - 11/14/13 07:55 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

shatter>wax>oil>hash


--------------------
**Metaphysical Crystal, Stones, Gems, and Minerals**
Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.
:bongload:  :gethigh:  "You need more THC to your brain, faster." - Drr  :gethigh:  :bongload:


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: mattritt]
    #19137490 - 11/14/13 08:25 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

For me, NOTHING can compare to certain hash. This one time I bought 24gs of Compressed kief hash from this hippie from nor-cal that came from Amsterdam to make hash in Cali. I got it for the same i'd buy an oz of herb and this shit was so fire I would wake up every morning high, then id get higher throughout the day. After doing that for a month top shelf bud didn't do shit for me :lol:


--------------------
R.I.P
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Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: funkerdslr]
    #19201258 - 11/28/13 05:25 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

funkerdslr said:
As a oil producer for multiple dispensaries here in southern cali, i can attest to the fact BHO de-waxed in ethanol will yield the highest test results both in actives and low residual solvents.

Wax is just whipped oil that's been stabilized. Shatter is fully stable oil which has most of its RS purged out of it. If you get an oil that's runny, there is 100% chance there are contaminants (residual butane, plant waxes, and other long chain hydrocarbons). THC and all the other cannabinoids are clear and solid at room temperature, if your oil is anything but see through and hard, then it needs more purging. Unless of course you're dealing with hexane of SCC02, where the cannabinoids actually bind to the terpinoids during the extraction and you'll never get a fully stable oil because removing the terpenes and lipids will also remove actives.

For anyone actually looking to better their knowledge of cannabis concentrates, SKR is the place. skunk pharm research center





thanks funk!  I love that website--- we experimented with making hexane extract with trim after a 45min decarboxylation in a 220F oven.  Never got it to a lab for testing but it was effective when smoked. 

I think washing the extract in iso or ethyl alcohol is the best way to clean it up


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: travelleler]
    #19201852 - 11/28/13 08:09 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

travelleler said:
Quote:

funkerdslr said:
As a oil producer for multiple dispensaries here in southern cali, i can attest to the fact BHO de-waxed in ethanol will yield the highest test results both in actives and low residual solvents.

Wax is just whipped oil that's been stabilized. Shatter is fully stable oil which has most of its RS purged out of it. If you get an oil that's runny, there is 100% chance there are contaminants (residual butane, plant waxes, and other long chain hydrocarbons). THC and all the other cannabinoids are clear and solid at room temperature, if your oil is anything but see through and hard, then it needs more purging. Unless of course you're dealing with hexane of SCC02, where the cannabinoids actually bind to the terpinoids during the extraction and you'll never get a fully stable oil because removing the terpenes and lipids will also remove actives.

For anyone actually looking to better their knowledge of cannabis concentrates, SKR is the place. skunk pharm research center





thanks funk!  I love that website--- we experimented with making hexane extract with trim after a 45min decarboxylation in a 220F oven.  Never got it to a lab for testing but it was effective when smoked. 

I think washing the extract in iso or ethyl alcohol is the best way to clean it up





I've heard 220 is too low for decarb, did you find that 45 mins at that temp did the trick?
I've been doing 240 for 20-30 mins.


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InvisibleLucid Toast
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19202057 - 11/28/13 08:46 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

op what your looking for is totally strain defendant.
Ad dont decarb.... Save your flavor and do a raw run seven day full vac purge low heat.


--------------------
You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief



"The menu is not the meal."
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“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.”
Bill Hicks


Edited by Lucid Toast (11/28/13 08:47 PM)


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Offlinefunkerdslr
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19202104 - 11/28/13 08:55 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Quote:

travelleler said:
Quote:

funkerdslr said:
As a oil producer for multiple dispensaries here in southern cali, i can attest to the fact BHO de-waxed in ethanol will yield the highest test results both in actives and low residual solvents.

Wax is just whipped oil that's been stabilized. Shatter is fully stable oil which has most of its RS purged out of it. If you get an oil that's runny, there is 100% chance there are contaminants (residual butane, plant waxes, and other long chain hydrocarbons). THC and all the other cannabinoids are clear and solid at room temperature, if your oil is anything but see through and hard, then it needs more purging. Unless of course you're dealing with hexane of SCC02, where the cannabinoids actually bind to the terpinoids during the extraction and you'll never get a fully stable oil because removing the terpenes and lipids will also remove actives.

For anyone actually looking to better their knowledge of cannabis concentrates, SKR is the place. skunk pharm research center





thanks funk!  I love that website--- we experimented with making hexane extract with trim after a 45min decarboxylation in a 220F oven.  Never got it to a lab for testing but it was effective when smoked. 

I think washing the extract in iso or ethyl alcohol is the best way to clean it up





I've heard 220 is too low for decarb, did you find that 45 mins at that temp did the trick?
I've been doing 240 for 20-30 mins.




Just to shed a little more light on decaring. decarbing 2-CooH-THC into THC by release the carboxylic acid group as C02 requires temperatures around 260 degrees F. 

Basically this is how cannabinoids are broken down.

CBGA is the main cannabinoid synthesized by the plant.

CBGA is converted to THCA-CBDA-CBCA through means of time and temperature. (in natures case, the sun baking the buds on the plant)

THCA-CBDA-CBCA lose their (A) carboxylic acid group as the carbon bond loses connectivity at around 260F and are converted to THC-CBD-CBC (all active cannabinoids)

THC-CBD-CBC lose hydrogen over time or with heat and convert into the final and weakest cannabinoid, CBN (Cannabinol) which is known to cause heavy sedative effects because of its agonist effect on the CB1 receptor and major affinity to the CB2.

If you're going to be eating the cannabis and don't decarb it, you're wasting your time since THCA isn't psychologically active. Though the medicinal effects of CBDA/THCA far outweigh the psychological effects of decarbed material.


--------------------
RIP Alice

<3 Chinacat72 <3


Edited by funkerdslr (11/28/13 08:58 PM)


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OfflineDaunttless
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19202113 - 11/28/13 08:56 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

In my personal experience, bud has done me quite well consistently. Hash is almost identical to bud for me except quantity/length. I find myself getting very high off of very little hash for several hours. Wax however...wax is a different story. I can take 2 hits of wax and be in a totally different world of peace almost for 3+ hours straight. Wax to me, is something totally different.


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Invisibletravelleler
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: Daunttless]
    #19206369 - 11/29/13 10:33 PM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I've heard 220 is too low for decarb, did you find that 45 mins at that temp did the trick?
I've been doing 240 for 20-30 mins.






yeah sorry I meant 240F  for 45 min

the key is temp plus time for proper conversion...  and as I said before funkdslr, I have not taken the product to the lab for testing so I have no idea how well the conversion is working.  THe concept of enzymatic conversion is not lost on the homebrewer though.  It's a pretty simple thing to grasp... I will never make edibles without a proper 45-60min decarb.  if you are making a solvent extract you can decarb the dry trim on a baking sheet in the oven.  if you are making canna-butter you can put the trim in a crock pot and add a pound of butter and let it cook for 3-4 days which will acheive a decarboxylation over time.


heady stuff for your head.


--------------------




"Whales have deep thoughts"

:sun:Dreams are the fuel of the soul:sun:

:peace:


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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: travelleler]
    #19206790 - 11/30/13 12:38 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

I've had hash around the world; in Italy and France (fucking blond lebanese has is yummy good) hash oil--actually 95% pure THC that was liberated from a medical research lab, and some Romulan Ear Wax.

Now, the hash and THC (Oil) were great, but that fucking Romulan Ear wax dropped me to my fucking knees after about the 3rd hit, and it went downhill from there.  :awesomenod:


--------------------
:smug: [/url][/url] 
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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: ElVatoFirme]
    #19207582 - 11/30/13 09:15 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ElVatoFirme said:
I got some wax recently that tested at 92% THC. To be specific it's called Moonrock.  Excellent stuff :thumbup:
A gram lasts me about a week and a half, which ain't bad for my habit :rasta:

I got an E-Go T Upgrade that I use to smoke concentrates, and the wax has been the best by far.

I've tried oil, it was potent.  But it's been my experience that the wax is superior.  It covers all three things you're looking for.

However, I'm sure potency can depend on who made it, what method, etc.





I absolutely adore your signature :underage:


--------------------
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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
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Re: Wax vs. Hash vs. Oil [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19207695 - 11/30/13 10:20 AM (4 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
I've had hash around the world; in Italy and France (fucking blond lebanese has is yummy good) hash oil--actually 95% pure THC that was liberated from a medical research lab, and some Romulan Ear Wax.

Now, the hash and THC (Oil) were great, but that fucking Romulan Ear wax dropped me to my fucking knees after about the 3rd hit, and it went downhill from there.  :awesomenod:






I absolutely adore your avatar




:peace:



bill


--------------------
Don't be a damn hippy and please buy a supporter account. Thank you.
The universe is teeming with life!


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