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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
#19200080 - 11/28/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: simplicity but within a beginner's reach.
most beginners can do it. key word "most".
some , may have difficulty on the sterile part.
Edited by anne halonium (11/28/13 10:10 AM)
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
#19205269 - 11/29/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said:
Quote:
Violet said: simplicity but within a beginner's reach.
most beginners can do it. key word "most".
some , may have difficulty on the sterile part.
LOL agreed IMO it always takes a couple fails and shortcuts before a person realizes that cleanliness and proper sterile procedure is the most important part of mycology. If you don't have the time to do it right, then don't do it. The most valuable lesson I have learned in all my projects.
Quote:
Violet said: You really think edibles are harder to grow? I own and have grown several cultures of Shiitake, several species of Oyster, and many other edible fungi cultures. They're such a cinch. Getting equally easy and fruitful crops of Cubensis involves doing some culture work that has already been done for you with edible cultures.
Sure growing multi-spore Cubensis is easy. Squirting an LC of a mailed-in power master edibles culture and growing veracious Oysters on whatever is easy too, IMO even easier since good edible isolates are less picky. However, for someone with a given skill level they'll have a much easier and larger crop from lab-handled edible isolates than Cubensis they started from spore. Even with an equally strong Cubensis isolate it's not going to be any easier than would be those identical procedures with edible isolates.
That's what this tek thread is about, bringing awesome Cubensis culturing not only down to simplicity but within a beginner's reach.
I agree with the first part of being able to start directly with clean LC as most vendors sell viable cultures with great genetics already, so that makes it easier to obtain a master slant for edibles, but on the actual growing side of things I think hands down edibles are harder to grow than cubes. There are generally more parameters that need to be followed than there are with cubes. Most edibles need more FAE and a more stable RH%. It's easier to keep a GH or GR stable at 95-99% but try keeping a GH at 80-85% and it seems more hard at least in my experience. Cubes and oysters are fairly easy and both I would recommend to a person just jumping into mycology but as for lions mane or portabellos where you have to have different RH% in different stages of the mushrooms life cycles I would not.
They just seem more tedious and I have tremendous respect for people that are able to make a living off of growing edible and medical mushrooms. It is so much work. What evens out psychedelic mushrooms I think is the potency factor as well. Not only does one have to find a culture that creates ample fruit bodies, but they also have to be worth the work. Especially dealing with MS, it can take hundreds of agar plates to find that one holy grail.
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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^ kinda off topic. even by my standards.
i wanna see more grain petri pics.
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Edited by anne halonium (11/29/13 03:32 PM)
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Quote:
anne halonium said: ^ kinda off topic. even by my standards.
i wanna see more grain petri pics.
If I only had any grain petri dishes
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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just PC'd 6 small (4oz) grain containers. they were glad brand snap on (in know not the TEK to a t, but i use these for agar sometimes when I'm out of petris), but I modified the lid with a small 1/8inch hole with 2 layers micropore (thats how I prep these for agar with success, thanks to pastywhite) 4 of them are brown rice, per Violets prep, and 2 of them are wheat berries, also per Violets prep. both were hydrated enough to easily break when squished between fingers, but not "fully" hydrated, in hopes of the PC cook finishing the job(there was still some moisture on the grains, hopefully correct amount). not much in each container, I'd say about 3 heaping tablespoons of grain in each wheat berry, and 2 heaping in each brown rice. PC was 15 psi for 38 minutes ( I read Violet saying 43 min or so but for bigger containers with much more grain, these are tiny and no stacking of containers was needed). All containers were lifted well above water line by putting three 1/2 pints glass jars under PC grate, so no water would touch/get into them. foil was also placed on top of each container and wrapped tightly around the lid, so no PC "rain" would fall on top of them and so that no plastic was directly touching PC wall. I work overnights so Ill take them out of PC around 10pm before work and see how they look (I'm hoping they expanded just a little), then put some agar wedges in them tomorrow, which is when I will also post pics. Only thing I'm concerned about was the 38 minute thing, but since i used so little in each container (3 tablespoons) I think Im ok. it may have been 41 min just cause I started timer a little after reaching 15psi, and the cool down probably was at 15 psi for at least 2-3 minutes. I just didn't want to do longer because they were so small and I didn't want to overcook the grains. any thoughts are welcome, good or bad, otherwise I'll update tomorrow. Thanks Violet!
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: blindingleaf]
#19205976 - 11/29/13 06:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
blindingleaf said: just PC'd 6 small (4oz) grain containers. they were glad brand snap on (in know not the TEK to a t, but i use these for agar sometimes when I'm out of petris), but I modified the lid with a small 1/8inch hole with 2 layers micropore (thats how I prep these for agar with success, thanks to pastywhite)
Oh wait, I love them things. Easy as pie, small, can fit lots in the fridge, reuse em many times 
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19206345 - 11/29/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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so update...just took them out of pc. there isa lot of moisture inside containers, not a pool on bottom, but drips around sides. I shook them all, making it disappear, and put them aside to look tomorrow, and am hoping for no pooling on bottom. the grain, when I shook the containers, sounded a little firmer than al dente. brown rice is not clumpy at all, but in reference to Violets picture on her grain prep page (maybe I should move these posts there) my rice was a little less cooked than her final BR pic, there were no split grains at all. I was aiming for less hydrated than more hydrated, as per ur post, at least with the brown rice. my rice looks more cooked than ur first BR pic and less cooked than ur second BR pic in this post in the section "short boiling prep" http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19035211 I'm hoping they are saturated enough, but we will find out within a week or so when the agar wedge starts or doesn't.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Quote:
nn-IlliniSpiralDMT said: I have tremendous respect for people that are able to make a living off of growing edible and medical mushrooms.
Thank you, most people haven't a fucking clue how hard the gourmet and medicinal mushroom industry is.
though you make good points I would like to add a few that weren't mentioned
first, cubes will sell themselves, even the most fugiphobic people I've met are willing to eat mushroom if it gets them high
second, the price, cubes are about $1000 per pound while gourmet and medicinal mushrooms average $12 a pound ( as per the American mushroom institute's website) considering if they are unprocessed
third, adhering to mushroom GAP standards for cultivation and to the FDA cleanliness and purity standards in regards to packaging
forth, most of the janky-ass teks around here wouldn't pass health code, so here's looking at all new food grade equipment, even the fucking tables have to stainless in this state. like your Martha? I was told the plastic isn't food grade and the tubing and shelves can't be used because they rust even if there is no direct contact, but they are ok to use if it's for starting seedlings you intend to sell. 
and fifth, no mushroom farm can turn a profit offering only one species. my company offers 14, that's fourteen different grown parameters...
so to recap, between demand/desire, production, the amounts needed to produce a profit, varieties offered, pricing, cost of goods sold, regulation, taxes, and the over all stress of running a business by far makes edibles ALLOT HARDER TO CULTIVATE AND SELL
I will not link my website to this page, at least not while discussing p. cubensis. But PM if your interested in checking it out
Edited by WillSolvem (11/30/13 08:59 AM)
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Yuri.Pono
MAD SCIENTIST


Registered: 10/28/13
Posts: 279
Loc: SO HIGH O
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spores! [Re: MaJiK_420]
#19207831 - 11/30/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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just curious to how you handle the condensation for your Agar dishes?
-------------------- Links To Success finger print: A9E348E5 2A22AFB6 F3676613 A34B1454 7C36ABC8 want to chat? got xxmp/pidgin/otr PM me for info
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spores! [Re: Yuri.Pono]
#19207849 - 11/30/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I prepour them, leave open until cool, add lids then autoclave, no condensation. there's a few ways to skin this proverbial cat, this is what works for me, I posted some pictures of my agar dishes earlier in this thread
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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spores! [Re: WillSolvem]
#19207877 - 11/30/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i use culture bottles...... therefore condensation isnt an issue really.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Culturing Tech • Agar containers, "Grain Petri" Tek, Invitro growing & Sterile Spores! [Re: Yuri.Pono]
#19207961 - 11/30/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are little tricks one can employ to help with condensation. Things like knocking moisture off the sides after removing from cooker and sealing, and things regarding the heat differentials which cause condensation, such as waiting until the dishes are cool when pouring disposable plastic dishes and keeping them stacked. One thing that can help some is leaving them in the cooker until room temperature.
Personally I don't bother with it much since I use sterile laminar airflow for sterile work. I just shake the moisture out of them so I don't have any extra in there.
I think condensation will only be an issue if you have problems with bacteria contams.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
#19208164 - 11/30/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Glad to see that someone else showing photos of their glad/ziplock pp5 petri contraptions. I have been using ziplocks for the last 3 months, and think they are splendid because they are cheap, reusable and very inconspicuous. They have a large surface area. I have hated the condensation build up which seems to happen on some dishes more than others. I noticed that keeping them in the autoclave until cool helps, as does the addition of stacking them and waiting a few days prior to use.
I made GE ports for mine by melting a small hole in the center of the lid. I was concerned that a drill would cause the lid to crack later, where the burn reinforced itself.
I used poly fill and packed it tight, then melted both fuzzy ends till it was a nice flat "puck" on the inside and out of the lid. I did not melt the polyfill to the lid, just got it close. Its hard to explain without pictures, but it works great.
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
#19208395 - 11/30/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: There are little tricks one can employ to help with condensation. Things like knocking moisture off the sides after removing from cooker and sealing, and things regarding the heat differentials which cause condensation, such as waiting until the dishes are cool when pouring disposable plastic dishes and keeping them stacked. One thing that can help some is leaving them in the cooker until room temperature.
Personally I don't bother with it much since I use sterile laminar airflow for sterile work. I just shake the moisture out of them so I don't have any extra in there.
I think condensation will only be an issue if you have problems with bacteria contams.
I work with plastic petris so I don't know if my method will help with condensation or not, but I like to stack a hot glass of water on the first couple of petris that were poured(they're usually the hottest and thus create the most dry adiabatic heating). It makes a tremendous difference in the amount of condensation in those first dishes, by then it though my agar usually seems to cool off.  Quote:
WillSolvem said:
Quote:
nn-IlliniSpiralDMT said: I have tremendous respect for people that are able to make a living off of growing edible and medical mushrooms.
Thank you, most people haven't a fucking clue how hard the gourmet and medicinal mushroom industry is.
though you make good points I would like to add a few that weren't mentioned
first, cubes will sell themselves, even the most fugiphobic people I've met are willing to eat mushroom if it gets them high
second, the price, cubes are about $1000 per pound while gourmet and medicinal mushrooms average $12 a pound ( as per the American mushroom institute's website) considering if they are unprocessed
third, adhering to mushroom GAP standards for cultivation and to the FDA cleanliness and purity standards in regards to packaging
forth, most of the janky-ass teks around here wouldn't pass health code, so here's looking at all new food grade equipment, even the fucking tables have to stainless in this state. like your Martha? I was told the plastic isn't food grade and the tubing and shelves can't be used because they rust even if there is no direct contact, but they are ok to use if it's for starting seedlings you intend to sell. 
and fifth, no mushroom farm can turn a profit offering only one species. my company offers 14, that's fourteen different grown parameters...
so to recap, between demand/desire, production, the amounts needed to produce a profit, varieties offered, pricing, cost of goods sold, regulation, taxes, and the over all stress of running a business by far makes edibles ALLOT HARDER TO CULTIVATE AND SELL
I will not link my website to this page, at least not while discussing p. cubensis. But PM if your interested in checking it out
Absolutely cubes sell themselves, forgot about that part! I never knew how hard the FDA swamps growers. Are you organic? I have family out in California that own a major fruit and nut orchard an they go crazy with dealing with California's safety codes along with the FDA constantly on their ass. Plus I believe my uncle has to pay thousands of dollars just to obtain the licence and certification of being named ORGANIC. When I would work at the farmers markets I would always go browse the mushroom stands. It was a shame though because most the growers only spoke Japanese or mandarin, so I couldn't ask how well their business does. I'm assuming anyone who busts his or her ass of that hard to grow mushrooms should make a decent salary...close to 6 digits I would imagine. I know what out-grow does is basically set up mushroom farms for his living in PA and he makes a pretty penny I would imagine as well.
I would love a link, PM me! If you don't mind I would love to get all the info I could if possible . When I started asking out-grow too much information he kind of shunned me lol.
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Our products are not certified organic for the same hassles your uncle has to endure to obtain and keep his. I'm hoping regulation with regards to mushrooms labeled as organic will stabilize.
one of the big hang ups is that you have to use 100% cert organic everything, sawdust: they want to know where it originated from, not just if I got it from a lumber mill but where did they get that wood and from what tree, grain: where did they get/grow, rice bran, gypsum, straws, ect. and since I use multiple or chance sources for spawn/substrate media that unless every single source is verified if they aren't already certified becomes too time consuming and not with the time/costs to keep those records to obtain the certification
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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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BigGreenMat
Stranger

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 161
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
#19208560 - 11/30/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I also just made up 40 'brown rice' agar plates. I don't have anything to use them for yet, but hopefully I will have some promising pins and fruits in the next week or so to start isolating. How long do your plates usually last? I made a lot because I figure I would have to do a number of transfers per variety I am playing with.
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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you assume all cube growers are hacks.
im certainly aware of food and safety standards, federal state and local.
my grows, likely exceed food grade, and my standard , is pry close to medical grade. im pretty confident, most edibles peeps, wouldnt meet my standards.
edible sales, are no different than any other ag crop. exotics, you over look the presence of LEO in the loop.
anyone actually growing at a 1k LB rate, needs to offer better quality, find better buyers, or get a real job.
once again, this is comparing dank farmers indoor hydro, and outdoor soybean crops.
i really dont get, how advanced micro lab teks, for high value crops, relates to edibles.
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Quote:
anne halonium said: you assume all cube growers are hacks.
you don't know me, how do you know what I assume? am I not devoting some of my time to this Tek?
what I truly assume is when people get defensive about someone else's point of view, I assume they can't form one of their own...
I also assume that when a user has only been registered for 6 months but has 1300+ posts of expert advice claiming a vast history and experience in the field, yet ops out of ratings and posts zero pictures and posts what has already been said, I assume I'm dealing with a troll, want to change my mind, post a picture with my name on a piece of paper next to a living mushroom, take as long as you need
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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
Edited by WillSolvem (11/30/13 06:16 PM)
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Dark76


Registered: 07/14/13
Posts: 121
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
#19209484 - 11/30/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wondering whether I should turn my ignore off....
On second thought...

EDIT: Evidence or Scapegoatery. You be the judge.
Edited by Dark76 (11/30/13 06:07 PM)
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nn-IlliniSpiralDMT
Maniac


Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 380
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
#19209886 - 11/30/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
WillSolvem said:
Quote:
anne halonium said: you assume all cube growers are hacks.
you don't know me, how do you know what I assume? am I not devoting some of my time to this Tek?
what I truly assume is when people get defensive about someone else's point of view, I assume they can't form one of their own...
I also assume that when a user has only been registered for 6 months but has 1300+ posts of expert advice claiming a vast history and experience in the field, yet ops out of ratings and posts zero pictures and posts what has already been said, I assume I'm dealing with a troll, want to change my mind, post a picture with my name on a piece of paper next to a living mushroom, take as long as you need
Exactly, Anne gets too defensive about topics I truly believe she knows nothing about, I'm sorry, Anne, I'm having a decent conversation with someone who grows medicinal and gourmet mushrooms 
I looked at your link and your farm looks great! I am curious as to how you fruit in such a large scale? Do you do outdoor and indoor grows? And are all those pics on your site your own grows? Your reshi's look amazing if that's the case amigo!
Anne I seriously doubt your little lab as you say meets FDA requirements lol.  Please, if you have ever actually worked on a farm or orchard you would know how tedious that would be
Violet I'm going to do some grain petri dishes! Wish me luck
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