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MMagg
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Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Quote:
anne halonium said: well, ya can do it, or not. some peeps like to mod things.
technically i see no harm. question is , why? especially when ya have alot of em.
alot of the violet tek, is designed to avoid extra things.
On a side note... why couldn't the Violet Tek be expanded to fill a mono tub? I mean, couldn't you spawn the grain in bags, then fill mono tub and just be using RGS? Would that not be as easy?
Don't get me wrong, i'm in the process of doing the violet tek right now, but some seem to thing small containers just isn't as good as big tubs...lol. Couldn't they modify it? If so, where would the pitfalls/areas of concern be?
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MMagg]
#19191863 - 11/26/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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MMagg said: Don't get me wrong, i'm in the process of doing the violet tek right now, but some seem to thing small containers just isn't as good as big tubs...lol. Couldn't they modify it? If so, where would the pitfalls/areas of concern be?
Uh oh, now you did it 
Provided you are using clean spawn and pasteurized field capacity sub, there are no pitfalls, unless you consider a set and forget FC with consistent results a pitfall. I believe that the reason someone might consider the v tek over a mono is they might not be able to pull off a proper spawn run, in which case the v tek is a simpler way to get fruits with less steps. But IMO a spawn run is not difficult.
I am going to run my own v tek right away here just to compare the pros and cons of both methods.
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MMagg
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Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19191892 - 11/26/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
MMagg said: Don't get me wrong, i'm in the process of doing the violet tek right now, but some seem to thing small containers just isn't as good as big tubs...lol. Couldn't they modify it? If so, where would the pitfalls/areas of concern be?
Uh oh, now you did it 
Provided you are using clean spawn and pasteurized field capacity sub, there are no pitfalls, unless you consider a set and forget FC with consistent results a pitfall. I believe that the reason someone might consider the v tek over a mono is they might not be able to pull off a proper spawn run, in which case the v tek is a simpler way to get fruits with less steps. But IMO a spawn run is not difficult.
I am going to run my own v tek right away here just to compare the pros and cons of both methods.
No... I'm not talking about a traditional mono tub tek. I'm talking about the Violet tek with a much larger container.... a tub. It seems the Violet tek's advantage is 100% grain, which is 100% nutrition.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MMagg]
#19191917 - 11/26/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I doubt you are gonna find a PC large enough to put a tub in? Unless you were going to break up and case the grain in the tub, at which point you might as well spawn it and get the extra water and nutes. Also if you used 5 quarts of grain for a mono and 5 quaets of grain for V tek, you still are using 5 quarts of grain
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MMagg
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Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19191937 - 11/26/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pastywhyte said: I doubt you are gonna find a PC large enough to put a tub in? Unless you were going to break up and case the grain in the tub, at which point you might as well spawn it and get the extra water and nutes. Also if you used 5 quarts of grain for a mono and 5 quaets of grain for V tek, you still are using 5 quarts of grain
That's why I said to spawn the RGS fully in bags.... then put them fully colonized into one big mono tub. At that point, sterility wouldn't be such a concern... but obviously, I'd clean it as much as possible.
The absence of substrate in the Violet tek is credited with other benefits as well....
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MMagg]
#19191961 - 11/26/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Credited by who? Based on what? I have yet to see a single side by side comparison using an isolate. Until that day comes (and it will soon) everything is simply speculation and rhetoric.
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MMagg
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Registered: 11/19/13
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19191970 - 11/26/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pastywhyte said: Credited by who? Based on what? I have yet to see a single side by side comparison using an isolate. Until that day comes (and it will soon) everything is simply speculation and rhetoric.
Goodness, dude... you're taking my question and trying to start a debate. And everyone I've spoken to who currently uses the Violet Tek has done PLENTY of other teks and seem to prefer it. I choose to believe they aren't all just morons.... But anyway... my question remains.....
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MMagg]
#19192048 - 11/26/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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pasty doesnt care about a side by side experiment, if he did he could find out for 5$ in 3 weeks himself and prove his point. he cant, and hes see where we are slowly. if he did the experiment honest , and lost , he loses face. if he cooks the experiment and wins, , someone else will exceed him, and he looks dum in a few months, its not in his interest in the least to find out. its just easier for a limited grower to look imperitive to ask for data. cheap and easy tactic to monkey wrench a tek ya lack the skills for yourself.
anyone not here more than 5 minits, realizes data never sways the ignorant. they just dismiss the data.
dragging bulks into this thread, is just adding troll fog the whole idea is to avoid bulks, and capitolize on the BE of grains.
all peeps see is container or tub. its shallow way to look at a grow.
imagine a v-tek pp5 , the size of tub. considering multi flushes, sub weight, energy costs, contam losses, by all sane measures. subs seem sorta ridiculously innefficient.
i think pasty has it in reverse, bulks, are for peeps that lack the skills for V tek.
truthfully , if i was a noob, and just wanted enuff for me and friends, and was generally low budget, and lacked science skills, id absolutely do bulks.
however, if i was reasonably funded , had lab skills, and was interested in reliable production, over time, and strain selection and power, along with space and energy savings , and require big steady yeild no contest ,violet tek.
it all comes down to energy and supply, and time "in" and surface area / yield " out"
the idea who has the bigger bucket " wins" is a fantasy promoted by in experinced growers, to distract from their skill levels and luck factor.
in the real world, winner has the biggest pile of most power, the fastest, with least supply and attrition.
if big wins, i grew kiddie pools back in the 80s with bulk straw. makes even biggest tubs look like shoe boxes. i no longer do kiddie pools and tubs.
i do v tek, v tekkers know its about all factors.
there are many of us now, and its for a reason.
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Edited by anne halonium (11/26/13 01:31 PM)
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MMagg
Stranger

Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Quote:
anne halonium said: the whole idea is to avoid bulks, and capitolize on the BE of grains.
all peeps see is container or tub. its shallow way to look at a grow.
imagine a v-tek pp5 , the size of tub. considering multi flushes, sub weight, energy costs, contam losses, by all sane measures. subs seem sorta ridiculously innefficient.
i think pasty has it in reverse, bulks, are for peeps that lack the skills for V tek.
truthfully , if i was a noob, and just wanted enuff for me and friends, and was generally low budget, and lacked science skills, id absolutely do bulks.
however, if i was reasonably funded , had lab skills, and was interested in reliable production, over time, and strain selection and power, along with space and energy savings , and require big steady yeild no contest ,violet tek.
it all comes down to energy and supply, and time "in" and surface area / yield " out"
the idea who has the bigger bucket " wins" is a fantasy promoted by in experinced growers, to distract from their skill levels and luck factor.
in the real world, winner has the biggest pile of most power, the fastest, with least supply and attrition.
if big wins, i grew kiddie pools back in the 80s with bulk straw. makes even biggest tubs look like shoe boxes. i no longer do kiddie pools and tubs.
i do v tek, v tekkers know its about all factors.
there are many of us now, and its for a reason.
I Don't disagree... just wondering if the same tek could be modified to go into a bigger container....like a tub.
Clearly, smaller containers are good if one gets tainted, you don't lose em all.... but maybe pouring an entire pint of 100% colonized grain into a large spawn bag.... shaking.... that would colonize quickly... then into a tub. Just wondering how that would work.....or where the negatives would be. It's still 100% RGS inside plastic.... just bigger plastic
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anne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MMagg]
#19192112 - 11/26/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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its the contam thing.............
any small containers, can be easily removed if contamed we dont lose entire crops because of a bad spot.
you guys need to think this thru. ya dont need a million containers
24 clone containers, done right, will out run almost anything its equal size.
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Edited by anne halonium (11/26/13 01:38 PM)
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MMagg
Stranger

Registered: 11/19/13
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Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Quote:
anne halonium said: its the contam thing.............
any small containers, can be easily removed if contamed we dont lose entire crops because of a bad spot.
Right, but once a bag full of RGS was 100% colonized, how much of a risk would it really be to load it into a mono tub? Isn't the big risk already passed?
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MMagg]
#19192138 - 11/26/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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MMagg said:
Quote:
anne halonium said: its the contam thing.............
any small containers, can be easily removed if contamed we dont lose entire crops because of a bad spot.
Right, but once a bag full of RGS was 100% colonized, how much of a risk would it really be to load it into a mono tub? Isn't the big risk already passed?
why bother?
the fetish should be in the total operations crop size.
i like ya MM. dont let the bulkers convince ya the bigger the bucket the better. thats just posing.
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MMagg
Stranger

Registered: 11/19/13
Posts: 41
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Quote:
anne halonium said:
Quote:
MMagg said:
Quote:
anne halonium said: its the contam thing.............
any small containers, can be easily removed if contamed we dont lose entire crops because of a bad spot.
Right, but once a bag full of RGS was 100% colonized, how much of a risk would it really be to load it into a mono tub? Isn't the big risk already passed?
why bother?
the fetish should be in the total operations crop size.
i like ya MM. dont let the bulkers convince ya the bigger the bucket the better. thats just posing.
I don't disagree that bucket size is akin to penis size.....
just that, for me, dealing with 6 pint jars, 12 bags, and 6 tubs may end up being easier than 108 containers.
Maybe it won't be... just wondering if there is any reason apart from contamination segmenting.
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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from a purely technical stand point, yes ya can do it. we had some massive tray farms back in the early 90s like that.
thing is, its garden engineering.
if 100 containers is a little much, cycle 50 containers. thats another advantage of v tek, cycling crops, the second one pp5 goes down, another one in place.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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This isn't even in the right thread, this is the CULTURE TECH thread and this is a VIOLET TEK conversation. Please direct inquiries and discussion to their related threads.
But for the record, since it was asked here... A giant tub of straight-grain would not be so easy to water. The individual cakes are surrounded with contact area with a small amount of water - a giant cake would have much less exposure area and require sitting in excess standing water to even get close to necessary hydration. It would also involve breaking-up and "recovering" the original colony on the grains but within unsterile environs. This simply doesn't go as well. Side-pins would become a problem where it otherwise is not. One large grain substrate would be extra likely to side-pin, with the problem being that the sides are isolated from most of the substrate. Yield would be pathetic, and the potential hardly realized. With many cakes, sides are always close by, and the whole container is full of sides, so side-pins become a more trivial matter. The efficiency would also drop dramatically. It's common myco knowledge: the larger the sub, the lower the biological efficiency. Plus when there's a contaminant it All goes in the dump, instead of just 1 container going and the others continuing on. There are many many reasons to keep containers unbroken and individual instead of breaking and amassing them.
As for why I don't modify the lids... I had silicone/SFD fall off my lids several times AFTER containers were sterilized and inoculated. What a frustrating waste. The ones that DIDN'T Fall off like that allowed moisture loss and the drying of the surface mycelium closest to the filter. As long as you're using filters as such, not only can you not stop it, but you're practically doing it on purpose. That might not happen or badly, but since it's not necessary to grow, why would you maim your containers for that reason? The containers already have more than enough air, especially for Agar dishes so a filter could stop a container from being used for agar dishes.
Besides, it eliminates many of the multiple uses for these containers Besides the direct grow. I use them for nearly Everything, including many uses that wouldn't be possible with ugly maim mods.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (11/26/13 02:34 PM)
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MMagg
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Registered: 11/19/13
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Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
#19192359 - 11/26/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: This isn't even in the right thread, this is the CULTURE TECH thread and this is a VIOLET TEK conversation. Please direct inquiries and discussion to their related threads.
But for the record, since it was asked here... A giant tub of straight-grain would not be so easy to water. The individual cakes are surrounded with contact area with a small amount of water - a giant cake would have much less exposure area and require sitting in excess standing water to even get close to necessary hydration. It would also involve breaking-up and "recovering" the original colony on the grains but within unsterile environs. This simply doesn't go as well. The efficiency would also drop dramatically. It's common myco knowledge: the larger the sub, the lower the biological efficiency. Plus when there's a contaminant it All goes in the dump, instead of just 1 container going and the others continuing on. There are many many reasons to keep containers unbroken and individual instead of breaking and amassing them.
As for why I don't modify the lids... I had silicone/SFD fall off my lids several times AFTER containers were sterilized and inoculated. What a frustrating waste. The ones that DIDN'T Fall off like that allowed moisture loss and the drying of the surface mycelium closest to the filter. As long as you're using filters as such, not only can you not stop it, but you're practically doing it on purpose. That might not happen or badly, but since it's not necessary to grow, why would you maim your containers for that reason? The containers already have more than enough air, especially for Agar dishes so a filter could stop a container from being used for agar dishes.
Besides, it eliminates many of the multiple uses for these containers Besides the direct grow. I use them for nearly Everything, including many uses that wouldn't be possible with ugly maim mods.
Good answer... makes sense. Thanks.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
anne halonium said: pasty doesnt care about a side by side experiment, if he did he could find out for 5$ in 3 weeks himself and prove his point.
If that's what you think you don't know me at all. I will try all kinds of stuff, ill advised or not. I have had many people admonish me not to do things but, I'm the kind of cat who has to try most things at least once. Bulk has been good to me but, that does not mean I'm not going to give v tek my best shot Already got my pp5 containers and am just trying to decide what kind of FC will give it the best chance of doing well in my horribly dry climate. Gonna do the G2G this week. I don't do experiments to watch them fail, not if I can help it. My biggest issue with it was people like you bashing people for growing any other method than what you approve of. If I see a person with a good grow, be it a straw log, pf cakes, monotub or even V tek, I will give them props on a job well done. IMO results speak for themselves and just cause I don't like cakes or straw, does not mean that results obtained with them are suddenly worthless.
Back on topic, I do like using grain soak water for agar, seems like it gives a little indication of how the culture will do when you put it to grain media. Too many times I have had deadly rhizomorphic cultures on PDA or MEA, only to have it go totally tomentose on the grains. I also remember that my first decent performing clone actually came from a BRF culture that I did with my last drop of spores solution from my first syringe. Good memories
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19193431 - 11/26/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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ill take ya at your word pasty.
dont do it for me, or for violet, or even for the " report" do it cuz ya want a better way to get more shrooms with less BS.
peeps who try it and the variants, like it for a reason. the community is more mature than it was even a few yrs ago. a good percent, now have the sterile skills, to do v-tek.
im most certain, youll be pleased. in many ways pasty, this tek was designed for YOU.
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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today after my maimed lids were done drying I filled them to tek and loaded them in the autoclave

I also pre-poured some agar for cloning pins, a couple grain jars and two LC's (not shown) for an unrelated projects also took the trip in the autoclave. Note: everything was cycled at 120minutes @20psi to test the durability of the PP5 containers which resulted in NO WARPING!!  
here's the donor petri: PRINT>AGAR>5PETRIS(this being one of them) originated from a spore print to agar plate that has shown great bulk sub (judge me not) yields rendered from it's sister plates. I would like to isolate a few of the producer strains via this tek

loaded the glove box and went to work:



That's about it for now, I will update periodically until pinning.
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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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anne halonium
jaguarette


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
#19193667 - 11/26/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think your doing fine. im not even against the lids, as it does look good.
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