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InvisibleViolet
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Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19325637 - 12/25/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

oxana said:
so im looking to isolate and test out some new strains to be used in monos.
im wondering if i fruit an isolated strain on several brown rice pucks and they do well on brown rice, will this be a pretty good indicator that this strain will also do well on coir/verm/grass seed?
it seems like a much easier path to take then to waste limited monotub space on strains that are not proven to provide high yields and other positive factors.



There's no reason one couldn't use a method like this to micro-size powerful culturing and leaving full growouts to monos if one really wants to.

A culture found this way will definitely still do well on bulks, since the main core of the bulk substrate is still grain. The substrate is indeed consumed but it's nutrition is really of little consequence, it's the watermass that we colonize it for.  We can easily get mycelium to jump off grains onto things with NO nutrition to take advantage of water holding.

For sure this will allow clear selections of colonizing speed, fruiting speed, flush rate, and appearance.
It will also tell you much about what a culture can do.  But to know for sure exactly what one will do on bulks it would still of course need a test on bulks.

____________________________________


blindingleaf, to your post I'll say this:  the differences between the full-yield timeline of "bulk" flushing and straight-grain sustained flushing is not THAT dramatic.  In some of the scenarios you mentioned I'd say it would be uncalled for to do EITHER or ANY growing, and in the others I'd say that the so-called "advantages" of bulks aren't really advantages worth speaking of, whereas the advantages of my style of grows are assured regardless of the scenario.

You made one half-decent point:  Some may not be patient enough to wait for full flushing from watered straight-grain.
That's not something to Pander to, though!  That doesn't make any grow tech "advantageous"!

Such a concept relies on the disadvantage of impatience making the disadvantages of bulks seemingly preferable, but that logic is spread too thin over a case attempting to be made to convince that 'bulk' watering is equal.

It's this simple: Impatience and mycology don't go together.

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
ps..violet u never responded to my PM last week!!  I know ur on here! haha, i know it was a lot of questions, but....?  what gives?!?!  if u have little time, no worries.



I prefer to spend time and energy answering cultivation questions where more than one person will read them
So I'm sure you won't mind me pulling some of your message in here

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Do u think that shaking grain jars, even once (@30,40,50% etc) would constitute the same thing as a transfer...meaning, do u feel like it leads to the strains degradation, like several G2G's would?



Yes, definitely...  Not that it would manifest as a big deal unless done several times in the generation.
I almost never shake anything though, so for me, it's a moot point that's already settled.

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
If u had a PP5 of just agar, and it was fully colonized, what would happen if u dumped some PC'd grain on top?  would it colonize upwards, and would this be a contamination risk?



If you had the working environment to pour sterilized grain into an agar dish, you could shake that grained-up dish around after closing it and mycelium would swipe off all over the grain, leading to quite a quick colonization time.
But if you're gonna sterilize all the grain, might as well take the agar to the grains instead...

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
For Rye and WBS, or BR for that matter, how long would u say to PC it for, if the PP5's were filled [over halfway]?
I know u said plastic transfer heat more quickly, and that 30-45 min would do, but is it the case with a PP5 filled that much?  what about a quart sized PP5 filled 3/4 of the way?  does the plastic allow heat to pass through that much easier?



Yes plastic transfers heat that much more quickly, but with larger substrate masses, more heat is required and more distance must be traveled to raise it.
I typically sterilize 3/4 loaded quart containers for 50-60 minutes, depending.
When preparing "masters" of grass seed for G2G, I sterilize even pints for 45 minutes, quarts for 65.

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Do u have any suggestions for shiitaki PP5s, recipes, tek etc?



I use grainwater for All of the Many species I handle, including several Shiitakes and many Oyster species, and more!

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
I only have MEA powder at the moment from mycosupply, it has done me well so far.  How important is it to change nutrients when doing agar work?  is it necessary? what are the ramifications if this is not done?



I'm not much of a pro on this topic, and not many people on this forum really are either.  But all I find it necessary to say is that I Never switch-up from grainwater agar, and that based on what I've read on the topic the point is to avoid selectivity which is not a problem towards grains.
I believe (and find) it to be needed to alternate media only when sugars one of the media being alternated between, to avoid laziness due to being used to the simplicity of sugars.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (12/25/13 01:54 PM)


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OfflineBigGreenMat
Stranger

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 161
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19325678 - 12/25/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am city folk and like the idea of vtek. Still working on good implementation. Have a sgfc but for larger grows I am going to test out 2 liter individual chambers as well.  So much to play with!


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #19325746 - 12/25/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

thats sorta the point.
v-tek is great stuff,
but theres a bigger dynamic at play.

as peeps become more confident with the grow,
it enables one to see many containers, and sub types, and supply/ lighting and equip options.

when i started over 35 yrs ago , supply was different. there were limits in choices.
now there are endless options.

use em to win.


--------------------
:aliendance:


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Offlineinvitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19327182 - 12/25/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I see there is no mention of using coffee during your grain soak.  I have to assume you've experimented with it and your not using it?


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Invisibleblindingleaf
blue collar underworld
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Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: invitro]
    #19327937 - 12/26/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

u posted from a PM....i feel so violated!  haha

like i said in my initial post, ur teks make great points, are well written, and ur passion for the technique is quite tenacious.

yes, patience and mycology don't go together.  thats well understood, as anyone who reads the signatures of popular posters and Trusted Cultivators would know.

im not siding with bulk.  I'm not siding with v tek.

I like this hobby because it is fascinating to me, and i try a lot of different things, like violet said ":to avoid sheer boredom"

i like v tek because a lot of different mediums can be experimented with on a small scale, then, then, like u said "There's no reason one couldn't use a method like this to micro-size powerful culturing and leaving full growouts to monos if one really wants to."

if i had to guess, i would say that a lot of ppl (including me) are utilizing ur tek as a "step 1" for their bulk grows.  finding an ideal culture with grain petris, cloning, isolating, knocking up a master, g2g expand, then spawn to bulk.

i think a lot of ppl are also using ur tek (including me) to experiment with grains, mediums, environments, etc.

there are also many, i would guess, beginners who can utilize ur tek to start out in this hobby.  materials are cheap, easy to find, inconspicuous, etc.

ur tek is a wonderful multipurpose tool, there is no question in my mind.

however i still stand by my last post, outlining the reasons ppl will either choose to or choose not to, utilize ur tek.

one of ur main points is that the BE is much higher with ur tek, and less materials can be used to produce more and better results.  materials, cost money, and we should not have to break the bank to perform a proper grow.  nor should we waste biological material because we have not utilized it properly.  but...isn't time another "material" we are using?  many cannot or do not have the time, like i said earlier, to wait for the full BE to unfold.  this, however, does not necessarily imply one is impatient. i'd guess many of us have jobs, families, etc that don't allow us to properly maintain many many small containers of grain, bottom watering, harvesting, etc.  we may only have a small window of opportunity to perform a grow, and we want that grow to perform well and have a high initial yield.  time, in this sense, is just another material we need to take into account for our grows, and does not imply impatience, but rather a situation where proper planning is just as important as anything else. (just woke up, i hope i explained that right...)

again, i know i keep saying this, i love ur tek!  but i equally love  many bulk teks.  there is value in both (for me at least)

we all have different life circumstances that must be taken into account when selecting a well written take to implement


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19327978 - 12/26/13 08:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

if time is your big issue, then its all about v-tek.
one can do straight spore MS on assembly line containers,
and assuming 4-45 minit loads a day @ 8 containers each,
even for a few days........
at about the 25 day mark, you can start to bury a bulk container in boomers........

this tek was designed to be reliable and fast to scale.

fact is , alot of you act like ya have to do 1000 containers.
ya dont.
12 containers or so, equals the avg surface area of the typical tub.
low PC time, low prep time, fast innoc time, and no grow out then spawn then grow out.......
makes it WAY faster..............

i see it polar opposite, i dont have time for bulks.
my peeps find it bulk crops unnacceptable for power,
and the space , effort/ yield/ harvest ratio, is abysmal.

id seriously quit if i had to do bulks again.
it just would not be worth it to me.............experience .:thumbup:


--------------------
:aliendance:


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InvisibleWillSolvem
Odd-Hand
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26 Flag
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19328258 - 12/26/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Got leap off for the two clones "Fatboy" and "Santa" I took on Christmas eve :thumbup:

Fatboy:


Santa:


I'll keep y'all updated :cheers:


--------------------


AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
stranger than ever.


Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19330235 - 12/26/13 07:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Looking good.  :ooo:

This stuff makes me want a time lapse camera.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along


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InvisibleDoc Seta
Sinister Das Trip Sober
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Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 550
Loc: Tunafish, Ocean
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: invitro]
    #19330369 - 12/26/13 08:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
I see there is no mention of using coffee during your grain soak.  I have to assume you've experimented with it and your not using it?



Coffee actually is beneficial? , I know it does nothing for jars that Ive noticed thought that was a fad that went away a few years ago? As for the two people below they both have valid points and I think Blindingleaf is kinda spot on about us all having families , jobs ect. Most of us cant or do not have the time nor the extra money to spend on mass bulk grows, just want decent results with minimal amount of time wasted & cash. Alotta people on here don't have jobs , gf bf's ect, kids and have all the time of day to play the growing games & experiments. I try to keep it as simple as possible with max results. I do alotta casings so I go threw casing sub like crazy, money adds up so fast so one of things I don't have time to experiment with but I do like your tek Jaguarette.:thumbup:


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Offlineoxana
i am the fun guy

Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 258
Last seen: 2 years, 14 days
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19331383 - 12/27/13 01:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

oxana said:
so im looking to isolate and test out some new strains to be used in monos.
im wondering if i fruit an isolated strain on several brown rice pucks and they do well on brown rice, will this be a pretty good indicator that this strain will also do well on coir/verm/grass seed?
it seems like a much easier path to take then to waste limited monotub space on strains that are not proven to provide high yields and other positive factors.



There's no reason one couldn't use a method like this to micro-size powerful culturing and leaving full growouts to monos if one really wants to.

A culture found this way will definitely still do well on bulks, since the main core of the bulk substrate is still grain. The substrate is indeed consumed but it's nutrition is really of little consequence, it's the watermass that we colonize it for.  We can easily get mycelium to jump off grains onto things with NO nutrition to take advantage of water holding.

For sure this will allow clear selections of colonizing speed, fruiting speed, flush rate, and appearance.
It will also tell you much about what a culture can do.  But to know for sure exactly what one will do on bulks it would still of course need a test on bulks.






thanks so much

i love your concept, it seems like such a great idea for testing new strains. im going to to run 6 containers of 10 different isolated strains and record the results.

unfortunately this would never work for me on a large scale, as i was able to find someone who would pressure cook 5 quart bags of rye grain spawn for $3.50 plus $1 for bag/ rye grain, and pasteurize 10 quart bags of coir/verm for $3 plus $1 for the materials.

just inoculate the grain spawn.colonize and dump it into a 30gallon bag along with the coir/verm packet, toss the ingrediants in the bag until its mixed right. dump bag into tray with liner, let colonize. pick two flushes, pull the contents out of the tub by its liner, dump it into my compost pile. only a tini bit of waste as i recycle/reuse my mixing bag and spawn/substrate bag.

i can get a
56pound bag of rye grains for $10
40pound bag of annual rye grass seed for $32( use it for my masters, thanks for that:tongue:)
coarse vermiculite $17 4cu foot bag
coco coir $0.40pound( off a 2500lbs pallet)
perennial bulb crates $2.50 2.1 square feet
spawn bags $0.50 each (reuse at least 3 times)
substrate bags $0.04

i spend less than an hour growing a pound and i pay about $20 for a dry pound in costs not including my equiptment that lasts forever.
my grows are very green. the heat used to sterillize and pasteruize help heat a mans house, all bio "wastes" at the end become compost i use in my garden. occasionally i throw the liner away but i use very thin 18 micron painters plastic. so i am only throwing away a few grams of plastic
. no chemicals are used. when i have a fungas gnats i get them with nofly bioinsecticide, instead of a bomb.

Quote:

anne halonium said:


kinda strikes me like test driving sports cars,
cuz you wanna drive the best school bus ya can.

think about it, developing strains on a high BE system,
so ya can switch to a lower BE?




it more like loading a few sports cars onto my cargo ship:tongue:


Edited by oxana (12/27/13 01:15 AM)


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Doc Seta]
    #19332202 - 12/27/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doc Seta said:
Quote:

invitro said:
I see there is no mention of using coffee during your grain soak.  I have to assume you've experimented with it and your not using it?



Coffee actually is beneficial? , I know it does nothing for jars that Ive noticed thought that was a fad that went away a few years ago? As for the two people below they both have valid points and I think Blindingleaf is kinda spot on about us all having families , jobs ect. Most of us cant or do not have the time nor the extra money to spend on mass bulk grows, just want decent results with minimal amount of time wasted & cash. Alotta people on here don't have jobs , gf bf's ect, kids and have all the time of day to play the growing games & experiments. I try to keep it as simple as possible with max results. I do alotta casings so I go threw casing sub like crazy, money adds up so fast so one of things I don't have time to experiment with but I do like your tek Jaguarette.:thumbup:




It's used as a nitrogen supplement. It works but highly contam prone in bulk subs. IMO it wouldn't be needed if 400%B.E. is being reported with brown rice


--------------------


AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


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Invisibleanne halonium
jaguarette
Female


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19332234 - 12/27/13 09:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

of course, many V-tek peeps ,
know the secret to nitrogen supplements already.......:thumbup:



and, in the new age, it aint coffee............



:rabble:


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (12/27/13 09:18 AM)


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Offlineinvitro


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19332333 - 12/27/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This post leads me to believe there is something in coffee besides npk that is beneficial to the grow.  read: "coffee has thousands of components..."  so that's why I ask.

This has all been covered a million times before.  Caffeine has nothing to do with why we use coffee. Decaf works as well as regular coffee, and caffeine tablets have zero effect.  Coffee has thousands of components and they help to stimulate fungi.  Use as directed in the many coffee threads I've posted.  Spent coffee grounds are an excellent additive to bulk substrates, and liquid coffee is an excellent additive to the water you soak grains in.  The addition of coffee speeds up colonization, and when spent coffee grinds are added to bulk substrates, they help to stimulate primordia formation.  Coffee also helps tremendously the amount of sclerotia produced by mexicana, morels, and other sclerotia producing species.
RR


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InvisibleDoc Seta
Sinister Das Trip Sober
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Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 550
Loc: Tunafish, Ocean
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19334306 - 12/27/13 08:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
Quote:

Doc Seta said:
Quote:

invitro said:
I see there is no mention of using coffee during your grain soak.  I have to assume you've experimented with it and your not using it?



Coffee actually is beneficial? , I know it does nothing for jars that Ive noticed thought that was a fad that went away a few years ago? As for the two people below they both have valid points and I think Blindingleaf is kinda spot on about us all having families , jobs ect. Most of us cant or do not have the time nor the extra money to spend on mass bulk grows, just want decent results with minimal amount of time wasted & cash. Alotta people on here don't have jobs , gf bf's ect, kids and have all the time of day to play the growing games & experiments. I try to keep it as simple as possible with max results. I do alotta casings so I go threw casing sub like crazy, money adds up so fast so one of things I don't have time to experiment with but I do like your tek Jaguarette.:thumbup:




It's used as a nitrogen supplement. It works but highly contam prone in bulk subs. IMO it wouldn't be needed if 400%B.E. is being reported with brown rice



Worm Castings been producing great results, I tried diluted coffee years ago. I just birthed 6 cakes of Maz and they're like light as a feather must be the fine verm which I'll never try again. I'll be glad to get 1 flush out of these cakes as for my EQ, Lizard King, + Texas casings & cakes they're nice an heavy, I'm getting 5 flushes out a each. Anyway sorry to be random on your thread :shrug:


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InvisibleDoc Seta
Sinister Das Trip Sober
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Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 550
Loc: Tunafish, Ocean
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19334322 - 12/27/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
of course, many V-tek peeps ,
know the secret to nitrogen supplements already.......:thumbup:



and, in the new age, it aint coffee............



:rabble:



Is that miracle grow lol, I use verm, ground up long grain BR, Gypsum + worm castings. Haven't had any probs so not really experimenting but if something produces great results please do tell lol


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InvisibleStickyIcky Fingers
Free DOOM!! Available Here

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 178
Re: anne halonium [Re: Doc Seta]
    #19334647 - 12/27/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think blinding leaf was referring to flushing time rather than the time to expand/maintain a grow.
I think they are saying that for them a single flush is preferred so that fruits can be collected at one or two instances (within a week or two)[and a grow shut down] rather than waiting for cultures in pp5s to exhaust their nutrition and collecting fruits in multiple flushes over weeks.


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InvisibleMudaFuka
Poppin bottles
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Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Doc Seta]
    #19334726 - 12/27/13 10:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

this thread started off interesting and informative but some ware in the middle it became unbearable to read. fuck me. some people on this site just love to fight like fucking children on ego trips.


--------------------
AMU
Bottle Tek
Liquid Inoculant Tek                                   
                     


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
Through Brass
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Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19334847 - 12/27/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My strains don't just ask,they demand fair trade only!


--------------------
Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold.

AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.


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InvisibleDoc Seta
Sinister Das Trip Sober
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Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 550
Loc: Tunafish, Ocean
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19335181 - 12/28/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
My strains don't just ask,they demand fair trade only!



y we trading prints or some ish?


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Offlinebluecap
mychanical
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Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 286
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19335942 - 12/28/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

thanks, violet, for clearing that up for me. anne helped alot too. I never really thought about the slealth aspect of this, and being incognito in the big city enviro. so this does make a lot of sense now...:smile:


--------------------
I wish I was a grain of sand, layin in a babies hand...fallin like a diamond chain into the ocean... A willow tree is strong enough to bend, never like the oak who lives in fear of a wind....Gamma...:mushroom2:                                                                                                                                                  :sporedrop:          :sporedrop:


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