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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19324644 - 12/25/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------


AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: oxana]
    #19324751 - 12/25/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

oxana said:
so im looking to isolate and test out some new strains to be used in monos.

im wondering if i fruit an isolated strain on several brown rice pucks and they do well on brown rice, will this be a pretty good indicator that this strain will also do well on coir/verm/grass seed?

it seems like a much easier path to take then to waste limited monotub space on strains that are not proven to provide high yields and other positive factors.




kinda strikes me like test driving sports cars,
cuz you wanna drive the best school bus ya can.

think about it, developing strains on a high BE system,
so ya can switch to a lower BE?


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:aliendance:


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 1,500
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19324970 - 12/25/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i'm puzzled by this biological efficiency concept applied to our work. 

http://www.fanaticus.com/ripsnort.htm

Quote:

Biological Efficiency is a term frequently used in the mushroom industry to describe yield potentials of mushrooms from various agricultural by-products (straw, sawdust, sugar cane bagasse, banana fonds and coffee plant wastes, to name a few). This formula was first developed by the Button mushroom (Agaricus) industry.




this means to me that commercial farmers looking to grow the best they can need to choose which agricultural waste product to collect tons of in order to make a viable business out of selling $3.99/lb salad fodder.  seems like to the average hobbyist, biological efficiency isn't so meaningful.  i mean the materials are super cheap, right?  and it all goes back to the earth one way or another, assuming it doesn't go to the landfill.

no disrespect.  so if someone already used to using one method of growing likes that method enough to stick with it, what's wrong with that?  different strokes, man.


--------------------
 
the j stands for jesus.
2020 new years grow along


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Registered: 05/07/13
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19325007 - 12/25/13 09:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

one can grow.
or,
one can use half the effort,
half the supplies,
half  the energy , and grow double.

skill,equip, and BE is the key.

i demand a power grow fast and plenty.
i dont have the time to slave in the lab.


fact is urban growers, who demand scale grows,
need advanced teks and equip.

space, heat, power, odors , time,
speed and mobility count to the urban uber grower.

if i was forced to use the old teks,
it would essentially disable my entire op.


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (12/25/13 09:59 AM)


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Offlinebluecap
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Registered: 11/10/13
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19325212 - 12/25/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I really give you kudos for the sanitation.i also agree with your clean working inviro and such... but I like more of a harvest  myself. grain to bulk, will blow your tek,s yield, out of the water imho...I use plastics myself too. but , I think your getting too anal about it. this is fine for agar or cloning. but as far as yield....seems like a waste of time to me...ya I know about  biologic efficiency and such, but really?....:smile:


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I wish I was a grain of sand, layin in a babies hand...fallin like a diamond chain into the ocean... A willow tree is strong enough to bend, never like the oak who lives in fear of a wind....Gamma...:mushroom2:                                                                                                                                                  :sporedrop:          :sporedrop:


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InvisibleDoc Seta
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Posts: 550
Loc: Tunafish, Ocean
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: bluecap]
    #19325218 - 12/25/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Props to Violet this hobby is all about experimentation :thumbup:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: bluecap]
    #19325238 - 12/25/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Jack,
But the BE understanding applies to all mushroom food and all yield, not just the ingredients you have listed.
BE calculations figure for Grain too of course, which is far from free.
And we all grow on grains... they're the heart of all our grows.
So having a stronger bio efficiency means more for our money - money on grain, on energy, on space, and on time.


Quote:

bluecap said:
... but I like more of a harvest  myself. grain to bulk, will blow your tek,s yield, out of the water imho... this is fine for agar or cloning. but as far as yield....seems like a waste of time to me...ya I know about  biologic efficiency and such, but really?....:smile:




Yeah, really.

I suppose I can only explain this by pointing out your misperception.

You seem to be basing your belief about yield based on the idea that seven quarts of grain in a wet pile of coir will yield more than one quart of grain spread out in four to eight cups.
DUH. It used 7 times the grain.

But will it yield 7 times as much, by the time all have spent and contam'd?
THAT is the important question.
So I ask: when the grain used is the same, what makes you believe that a different method of watering changes the yield capability of that grain? That would be ignorant.


7 quarts of prepped grain yields more for me spread in 16-35 bottom-watered cups (depending on if 'grain petris' or full grow) than destroyed and mixed into one monster block of low-nutrition watermass.
The reasons why are well-known around here.  Failure to understand doesn't change the facts.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (12/25/13 11:35 AM)


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: bluecap]
    #19325240 - 12/25/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bluecap said:
but as far as yield....




i did bulks all thru the 80s' up to kiddie pool size.
ya they put out boomers.

now i get more from way less energy and supplies.
and the quality is better.
WBR, has shown the highest recorded power levels.
i suspect strongly, RGS is close to that also.

seriously, id retire before i returned to bulks.
the yield, power, and effort/ energy equation,
its not worth it to me any longer.


--------------------
:aliendance:


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InvisibleDoc Seta
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Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 550
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19325246 - 12/25/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:rofl2:


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Doc Seta]
    #19325265 - 12/25/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Doc Seta said:
:rofl2:




exactly.

i find it  comically ironic,
the best v-tek converts, have done bulks before also.


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:aliendance:


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InvisibleDoc Seta
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19325276 - 12/25/13 11:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

anne halonium said:
Quote:

bluecap said:
but as far as yield....




i did bulks all thru the 80s' up to kiddie pool size.
ya they put out boomers.

now i get more from way less energy and supplies.
and the quality is better.
WBR, has shown the highest recorded power levels.
i suspect strongly, RGS is close to that also.

seriously, id retire before i returned to bulks.
the yield, power, and effort/ energy equation,
its not worth it to me any longer.



Nice page just got done viewing it :thumbup:


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Offlinebluecap
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19325286 - 12/25/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I get it. but I don't do monotubs. just 2 jars of grain to 2 jars of sub.(coir,verm) in plastic, for my substrates. I guess your tek, is just too fastidious  for me.  not trying to down you at all.this print tek is the best ive seen in my years of growing... of course contams are an issue with either pp5 or fgfc, after 5 flushes. but the yields are bigger. because I,m using more substrate and spawn... keep on keepin on there. just my 2 cents...just my opinion. everyone has their own methodologies and preferred methods. I respect your opinions...:smile: hook line and sinker, as far as biting...LOL


--------------------
I wish I was a grain of sand, layin in a babies hand...fallin like a diamond chain into the ocean... A willow tree is strong enough to bend, never like the oak who lives in fear of a wind....Gamma...:mushroom2:                                                                                                                                                  :sporedrop:          :sporedrop:


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: bluecap]
    #19325379 - 12/25/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

keep in mind, v-tek "as presented",
is not exactly what i do.
note the pic.



polycarbonate culture flasks for fert BRF agar,
are made wholesale assembly line in 250ml and .5 litre sizes.
and inoc with MS........
fert agar, pins easily, clones are apparent fast.



clones are selected with long tweezers,
and transferred to more polycarb flasks.



flasks of water are  then prepped for 30 min PC, and cooled.



sterile water is added to the polycarbs and shaken.
instant 1/2 liter of clone slurry.



we then start slinging large heavy bore syringes.
at PP5's



all this done assembly line style , goes very fast.
done right, contams are super low.


now, yes you can use PP5's for agar work and such.
and it works good......
however, its not nearly as fast for scale ops, as some of the mods like above.

v tek, done as presented, is a fantastic tek.
with mods, its a tek on steroids.

i suggest mastering the basic v-tek as violet presents it.
then , scale up with the mods.


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (12/25/13 12:18 PM)


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: bluecap]
    #19325441 - 12/25/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i am using the v tek because i think it is interesting way to approach the hobby, because the hobby is indeed itself interesting, and this is a way to test spores, semi isolate, isolates, different grains, mediums, etc in a small efficient way.  i am using the bulk teks as well to get a lot at once for my friends and i.  i enjoy growing mushrooms and mycology in general.  its really up to the person and their life's circumstances and mycological goals to decide which way to go.

let me expand...while the BE may be higher with these grows, it does not make them suitable for everyone here, and I mean this with no disrespect at all, because I value the info u (violet) have given me and the ppl here and admire the tenaciousness of ur arguments.  some ppl want/need to grow a lot at one time, hence going to bulk is easier to get a good harvest at once, then clean up and move, or clean up and forget about growing for a while, because they do not want to or actually can not keep waiting for more and more flushes to take advantage of the full BE of these grains petris.  there is nothing wrong with this method, just as there is nothing wrong with v tek  method.  several ways to skin a cat right?  it comes down to what u r gonna do with that cat, and if u need that cat skinned by next week or next month.  bulk style and "grain petri/v tek" style have advantages and disadvantages, all depending on how the person approaches the grow... are they a hobbyist?  a drug dealer? a guy who is moving out of his apt next month? a startup for edibles? etc.
there will always be this argument of BE, and i read more and more about it, but some don't care or if they care don't have the patience or life situation to take advantage of it, just like some don't care about huge initial harvests with bulk or the living situation that allows it to occur.
...again, this posts intention is not to disrespect either BE style or bulk style, and i encourage both sides to keep going with this stuff (teks, grow logs, pics, etc) its interesting and well written, and helps the OMC go further and further.

ps..violet u never responded to my PM last week!!  I know ur on here! haha, i know it was a lot of questions, but....?  what gives?!?!  if u have little time, no worries.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19325493 - 12/25/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

truthfully, in 35 yrs ive tried all styles extensively in phases,
just to keep from falling over in stoned boredom.

my bulks come out great.
if i lived on a ranch in kansas and could snag turds ,
boil em up in a barrel, and fry em under a tube light array,
corn mason quarts gleaming and all, id do it.
especially if i could bill it all to the host farm!


fact is, im a  downtown beach tower girl, and  have a life.
how the hell am i gonna get a scale barn grow past my door man?
for real, am i suppossed to get the maid to distract him while we run carts of shit and bales of straw up the freight elevator?.

i live in the tropics, waterfront. 3rd floor.
ill just put the pasturization barrel on the balcony.

hmm hallway stinks like boiling spawn.
masons rattling all hours.
discolored carpet.
neighbors wheezing from trich outbursts.

tube lights baking..........
IR on the tower. lol
strange sounds and visitors late at night............
oooooo, spooky, and no its not halloween ,
its bulk at the boardwalk towers!


reality peeps, bulkers methods collapse in dense urban areas.
and it gets worse to scale.
fortunately,
v -tek, is for scale growers downtown, who dont take "no" for an answer, and demand performance, in the power grow.

peeps in kansas? merry xmas, gas the bucket loader up on me.
peeps in the city? we have different agenda.


--------------------
:aliendance:


Edited by anne halonium (12/25/13 01:09 PM)


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OfflineAero
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Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19325516 - 12/25/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ah yea urban life..

i just imagine my housemates faces if i would be pasteurizing hpoo down at kitchen..


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Aero]
    #19325538 - 12/25/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

when one needs scale and performance .......city style.

its ironic, the rural peeps could do v-tek, if they choose easily.
where as its almost abusive, to suggest city peeps use only rural methods.

v-tek, would be the more universal and democratic tek to all.


--------------------
:aliendance:


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Offlinemushrume man
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19325569 - 12/25/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ha Anne I have the same torch you do! That looks like a great setup for cloning, might have to pick up some culture bottles afterall...

Got to get me some of those glass syringes also

I may not be urban, but I still feel weird carrying 40 lbs of WBS, boxes of jars and 6 totes in my house.


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OfflineAero
Orea


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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: mushrume man]
    #19325580 - 12/25/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i use similar jars for agar work, zero contam by using a glovebox


--------------------
SPREAD THE SPORES



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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: mushrume man]
    #19325597 - 12/25/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

supply raids are an issue also.
supplies should appear like ninja magic, be minimal,
have low waste profile,
be silent , odorless, and hide-able for storage.

i always imagine " if leo was sleeping on my couch, would he wake up?"


--------------------
:aliendance:


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