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Offlinemushrume man
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19227087 - 12/04/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

All but one of my agar dishes liquified, there was some boilover in the PC as well.

Half gram agar and malt each mixed w colonized grain soak water ~25ml.

I loaded the 921 w rings on bottom then trivet. Eight containers lids cracked and one more w 250ml water for suspension. Rings around the sides too. Water level was slightly above trivet maybe an inch deep or so. 

What's the deal here? I'm planning another run ASAP


Thanks :cheers:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: mushrume man]
    #19228706 - 12/04/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Regardless of your conainer, agar boiling over means that the pressure isn't keeping down the boil at a given temperature.  Blowing off steam after the run will cause an agar catastrophe.  The rocker shaking and releasing pressure for even just a moment can send the agar up to a boil.

I never get boil-overs or anything like you described, but if I blew off the cooker's steam or shook it around at pressure you bet I would.

To see how quickly agar can boil over, just boil a little bit in the microwave....
Having it under pressure keeps it at a simmer, but dropping the pressure without dropping the temperature will allow boil-over.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19229215 - 12/04/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So my first Violet tek In Vitros are running using Brown Rice.  I see growth in my Albino PE hybrid, but nothing yet in my Pan. Cyans.  Hoping the Pan. doesn't go bust.  Looking forward to cloning and isolating with my Brown Rice Water Agar.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #19229266 - 12/04/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It'll be interesting to see if different Panaeolus grow from straight grains, particularly ones like rice.  I have high hopes for ones like Cinctulus growing on straight grass seed under bio-active casing, but not as much for others particularly on the likes of rice.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19230167 - 12/05/13 07:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

@mushrume man

Check out the Tek in my sig "Willsolvem's Convert your walmart PC to a autoclave tek"

I had the same boil over problem..

Good luck


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19232933 - 12/05/13 05:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so here are some pics.  I used pasty's pp5 method and lid mod with grains, BR and wheat.  there is growth.  innoced with agar.  Wheat maybe a bit too dry to be able to reach full colonization, but  have high hopes for the BR





I also picked up some of Violets preferred PP5 and did some BR prep.  u can see, this BR is MUCH more saturated than the little PP5 above.  it seemed way too wet an environment after PC, so I waited 2 days will some moisture cleared up, and just inoculated today (3 of them, about 1 cup prepared BR each) with an agar wedge.  Violet, do u think this BR looks a bit too moist?  when I shake it, 90% of the rice is a cake that does not separate, but there is very little starchy smear on the sides of the container, which I took as a good thing.  The BR above I feel is perfect, if a little UNDER done.  when I shake that it is like a WBS shake.



we will see I guess, I have the lids a LITTLE twist loose for GE...does that sound ok or no?


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19234392 - 12/05/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I was worried you might say that.  I haven't run into a lot of advice on Pan growing conditions so I figured it wouldn't hurt to use a couple CC's to experiment.  I am holding out hope for some growth even if not to  fruiting stage (I was planing on casing).  The general page for Pans said they spawn to grain.


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #19235381 - 12/06/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nothing new really to report, everything looks good, moisture content, colonization, and contam free



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Invisibleanne halonium
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19235488 - 12/06/13 08:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

if i remember correctly,
one of our peeps, pulled off a pan grow on another forum with v-tek.

and of course, mexicanas have been v- tekked.

even though i take a dim view on turdage,
it may be required for some species.
v-tek turd mods, may work for those species.


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: anne halonium]
    #19235782 - 12/06/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have fruited the goliath strain of pan off strain grain, rice being a grain I don't see why it wouldn't work with brown rice, you do have to case so may I make the suggestion to sprinkle some moist (but not wet) vermiculite over the brown rice before sterilizing. Any mycelium from an LC or wedge will reach the brown rice, spores too. They (pans) don't like a thick casing so less is more. I have successfully fruited goliath in vitro in half gallon glass mason jars, but I used hpoo not brown rice but IMO it should work. Good luck and keep us posted :thumbup:


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OfflineBigGreenMat
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19246026 - 12/08/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think I see the first tiny signs of growth in the pan in vitro!  The albino pe is way further along.  Pans are generally slower right?  It is hardcore cold here so my conditions are a bit cooler than optimal. I am keeping the place just below 70 so at best they are experiencing just above 70.


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: BigGreenMat]
    #19246235 - 12/08/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BigGreenMat said:
I think I see the first tiny signs of growth in the pan in vitro!  The albino pe is way further along.  Pans are generally slower right?  It is hardcore cold here so my conditions are a bit cooler than optimal. I am keeping the place just below 70 so at best they are experiencing just above 70.



No pans colonize fast, they have a lighter, more grayish look to the mycelium than cubes and is often thought to be cobweb mold initially, and pan mycelium has a smell that is very very unique, thought I should mention that


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InvisibleStickyIcky Fingers
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19246389 - 12/08/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I loosened the lid a bit on an overloaded petri(around 250ml of seed in it) yesterday. I'll see how this turns out I'm hoping to use this as a stealthy neglect grow.

I like the flash boil prep and grain water agar thanks violet.:thumbup:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: StickyIcky Fingers]
    #19273764 - 12/14/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Many of my isolated clone cultures are raring with pins on agar.

This agar is especially firm, making its water harder to access, yet still!


I'm particularly excited about trying some of these strains for agar-only grows...!



Some preliminary culture tests on rice are starting to pin and showing very nice behaviors.
As expected, every single culture I have isolated is a fruiting strain.


Since I knew I would have no contaminations, and am familiar with making decent invitro conditions with loose lids, I only agar inoculated 1 container of shallow rice for each isolate culture to test.
A few days after fully colonized, each container had lids loosened the same amount to give them the same conditions.

This has allowed to see me how quickly the different strains would pin in the same conditions, and will allow me to see a little bit into their type of behaviors.
However the "first flushes" have been and will be somewhat uneven and likely to "sidepin" at the plastic, so especially since they're limited on water and very shallow with wide exposure,  I'm more interested in seeing what will happen for the "second flush"  once the grain cake is no longer networked to the container sides and the bottom/side environment is blocked by bottom-watering.  Once that shallow cake is 'floating' on its own and the mycelium have no choice but to pin from the exposed area,  Then we will see how hardy they are for such a condition and how well they'll draw bottom water into a larger yield!
Since new cakes have limited water on hand for first flush, due to the lighter amount of water grains must hold to be colonized and due to water loss during colonization and before the flush,  I am pretty sure 2nd flushes will be larger than 1st.




Oh! Also:

Almost 3 months from inoculation, the invitro rice pucks pictured flushing in the tek are STILL putting up fruits despite total neglect of water and soso ambient room light.

I've gotten biological efficiencies ranging from 250% to 400% - and those pucks were multi-spore!  Goes to show that the same substrate potential will yield more when more divided into smaller intervals (as long as the smaller intervals are fully successful grows too of course)... not that we didn't already know this from Stamets and others.


So I think it's about time to talk  biological efficiency.  Today I'll be filling that post out at the end of the grow tech.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: Violet]
    #19274482 - 12/14/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nice job, 400%-B.E. is impressive :thumbup:


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19279941 - 12/15/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Today I noticed in 4/6 of the containers although none are fully colonized I'm observing allot of knot forming. Roughly 80 per cm2! The following picture was the best I could do for taking pictures of knots but doesn't do it justice. I have never seen such tight knot formation :thumbup:



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Offlineoxana
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19282178 - 12/16/13 01:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so i made some ziplock petri dishes and i have a lot of condensation on the sides and top im wondering if others have this problem. im wondering if this could be agar related. i have asian food store agar, im gonna look into professional agar

also i just started making 5quart spawn bags with grass seed. so time effective.


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Offlinemushrume man
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: oxana]
    #19282354 - 12/16/13 03:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I also had a lot of condensation in my PP5 agar dishes, one has about a TBS of loose water, other not as bad.
I'm leaving them to sit at about 72* for a week to see if that'll help. I think its just a thing PP5s do, it's like plastic in the dishwasher.
It doesn't hold enough heat to dissipate the water? I will probably dump it while in SAB


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: mushrume man]
    #19282578 - 12/16/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yea I have dumped it in SAB before as well, same thing here with H20 on sides.  Didn't think it was a problem (the excess water) till one time after a transfer, I went to do next containers, and noticed as I moved the one I had just put a wedge into, the wedge kept sliding around on surface of agar... "WTF!!" I thought, so I turned it on its side and a couple drops came out, no biggie, plate grew out like normal.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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InvisibleWillSolvem
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Re: Culturing • GRAIN 'PETRI' TEK [Re: mushrume man] * 1
    #19282597 - 12/16/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

To stop condensation in either agar or grain.

First condensation occurs only in the cool side of things where they're is moisture already present. So if your media (agar, grains, ect) has a temp around 75°f but an air temp of 70°f you will have condensation. To remedy try increasing the air temp around the media, remember that with increased temp you will have increased evaporation

Second properly hydrated media is key, take agar for example, after you pour hot agar it continues to out-gas for several hours even after cool (don't believe me, just sit a hot agar dish on a scale and record it's weight over a few hours). To remedy this I (personally) will mix, heat, and pre-pour my agar into dishes, let cool and to firm up, then sterilize. Let the autoclave completely cool before opening. With grains I make sure they are room temperature before putting lids on and sterilizing.

Hope this helps :thumbup:


Edited by WillSolvem (12/16/13 06:34 AM)


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