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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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when do i pick??
    #19033488 - 10/25/13 10:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i am staring to grow PE and they are fruiting nicely i have a side pins and am scared they will rot and cause contams and i am also scared the ill wait to long to pick them and theyll rot


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Offlinehgmstl
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19033512 - 10/25/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

everything is gonna be ok buddy.


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Offlineillumi.naughty87
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: hgmstl]
    #19033538 - 10/25/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

After the veil breaks. You'll get it.


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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: hgmstl]
    #19033543 - 10/25/13 10:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i try to keep telling myself that yet i still find room to worry how long should it take to fully mature after pinning?


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Offlineillumi.naughty87
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: illumi.naughty87]
    #19033553 - 10/25/13 10:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Look in my sig for ideas on how things should look.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: illumi.naughty87]
    #19033590 - 10/25/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

illumi.naughty87 said:
After the veil breaks. You'll get it.





Not so simple with pe. with pe you can let them grow long after the veils break. If they start to feel soft or look bluish on the cap then I would pick them. Do not worry about the side pins rotting as long as you get them when you pick the rest.

Also google " when to pick penis envy" and there is a lot of threads out there

Also, the caps will open and the top of the stem will buldge and deform, thats when you know



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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19033599 - 10/25/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

And some will open a little later, but when the biggest ones are ready I would just pick them all, soak and go for a second flush



cloned^


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19033624 - 10/25/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

this is about 5 days after pinning




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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19033892 - 10/26/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

They need more time. I wonder why you got so much side pinning and not very much top pinning? It is too dark to tell, but it looks like it may not have been fully colonized when fruited.

Either that or it was too dry. What do you have it in? Did you mist often after putting in fruiting conditions?


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19033896 - 10/26/13 01:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
I wonder why you got so much side pinning and not very much top pinning?



Because no liner was used.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19033903 - 10/26/13 01:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
I wonder why you got so much side pinning and not very much top pinning?



Because no liner was used.





Ahh, I overlooked that.

OP I see you have taped the outside, to block light I assume. What the plastic liner does, besides block light, is to hug the sides of the substrate when it shrinks and can prevent that side pinning from happening


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19033915 - 10/26/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It has nothing to do with blocking light.....clear liners can be used as well.

It has everything to do with preventing FAE from hitting the sides.

The plastic will stick to the sides of the substrate while it consolidates, eliminating that microclimate.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19033957 - 10/26/13 01:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It does help if it is darker as bright light is one of several pinning triggers


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19034013 - 10/26/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
It does help if it is darker as bright light is one of several pinning triggers



Not really.....Light is only a secondary pinning trigger....

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Light is not a pinning trigger until after full colonization and an increase in air is given, and even then it's a secondary pinning trigger.
RR




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18843605#18843605

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Light anywhere on a substrate will help trigger pinning anywhere else on the substrate where conditions are right, such as in the gap around the edges.  However, fresh air exchange is the biggest pinning trigger.  Cubensis will pin in total darkness if given fresh air exchange and full colonization.  Light helps the mushrooms grow to full size and weight after pinning.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16393589#16393589

Remember, the search function is your friend.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19034031 - 10/26/13 02:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

HAHAHA I fucking KNEW you were going to quote RR.
His word is not the gospel. Fact

I have done experiments where I have taken the same isolate in 2 different tubs and placed one in a completely dark room with all light blocked out, and one in a regular fruiting room . . . Guess what?

The tub in the dark didnt pin . . . for a whole month! Then two days after I put it in the regular fruiting room . . . Guess what?

Pins!

I know for a fact that blocking out light from the sides helps with side pinning, despite what you or RR have to say about it


I know you and RR both know a lot, but coming from someone who puts out tubs like the one above on the regular, I know a lot too.


And light DOES make a difference


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19034045 - 10/26/13 02:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not to mention none of his pics of cubensis grows have anything on my grows, so I can only assume I am just as skilled as RR in that area of mycology . . .


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19034048 - 10/26/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Sure it DOES make a difference, but blocking light will not stop side pinning completely.

On the other hand using a liner and blocking all FAE will.

Use clear liners and you will see.....all the no side pinning.

You cannot get pinning without FAE and/or full colonization, but you can get pinning without light...it happens all the time in nature.....

So if you stop all FAE, but give it lots of light, it will not really pin.

You are trying too hard buddy....

You might know a lot, I am not doubting this, but you do not have the experience of a 40 year mycologist.

I agree his opinion isn't always "gold", but goddam, he is not just talking out his ass.

I believe he does this for a living......but I could be wrong.....

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
I can only assume I am just as skilled as RR in that area of mycology . . .



:facepalm:  You know what they say when you assume things.....


Edited by PussyFart (10/26/13 02:42 AM)


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19034054 - 10/26/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

but blocking light will not stop side pinning completely




That is true, but it will greatly deter it.






Quote:


Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
I can only assume I am just as skilled as RR in that area of mycology . . .


:facepalm:  You know what they say when you assume things.....







Well when I see cubensis grows of his that match what I do then it would be safe to stop assuming that. I am not trying to boast,just merely point out that from what I have seen of his cubensis grows they are not on par with what I do


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19034055 - 10/26/13 02:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Not to mention, from my own experience with intense/direct lighting....it does not cause pinning at any stage, colonization or fruiting.

My grain jars colonize on a shelf litterally 4-5 feet away from my light fixture which has bare bulbs with no shade, and all my tubs colonize and fruit in the same closet, with the same light setup, on the same schedule, with no early pinning.

My tubs do not pin until FAE it introduced, no matter the light levels.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19034058 - 10/26/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Well when I see cubensis grows of his that match what I do then it would be safe to stop assuming that. I am not trying to boast,just merely point out that from what I have seen of his cubensis grows they are not on par with what I do



So what makes cubes so different from any other mushroom in regards to lighting?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19034065 - 10/26/13 02:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Not to mention, from my own experience with intense/direct lighting....it does not cause pinning at any stage, colonization or fruiting.

My grain jars colonize on a shelf litterally 4-5 feet away from my light fixture which has bare bulbs with no shade, and all my tubs colonize and fruit in the same closet, with the same light setup, on the same schedule, with no early pinning.

My tubs do not pin until FAE it introduced, no matter the light levels.





I have all my stuff in the same room as well, and your jars do not pin in bright light because they are not getting the fresh air yet






There was also one instance when I moved and I had a bunch of colonizing jars that I put into storage. And in my new place I just ended up starting everything from scratch. So 5 months later I go to my storage and had forgotten all about these jars. They were now beyond fully colonized, myc climbing up the side of the jars. But not one pin in the whole bunch

Within 3 days of bringing them home and exposing them to light they were all full of pins . . . but still had no freah air


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19034069 - 10/26/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Well when I see cubensis grows of his that match what I do then it would be safe to stop assuming that. I am not trying to boast,just merely point out that from what I have seen of his cubensis grows they are not on par with what I do



So what makes cubes so different from any other mushroom in regards to lighting?





I am just saying I do not think he has grown as many monotubs of cubensis as I have, that's all. He has a different style of growing


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19034070 - 10/26/13 02:53 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Within 3 days of bringing them home and exposing them to light they were all full of pins . . . but still had no freah air



Well this is something that would have to be seen to believe.

But still, something that happened one time, counts more as an anomaly than anything else.


Edited by PussyFart (10/26/13 02:54 AM)


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: PussyFart]
    #19034088 - 10/26/13 03:05 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Within 3 days of bringing them home and exposing them to light they were all full of pins . . . but still had no freah air



Well this is something that would have to be seen to believe.

But still, something that happened one time, counts more as an anomaly than anything else.





Well there was that time and the one time I tried to fruit a tub in total darkness just to see . . . But as you said, blocking light from the side of a monotub will not stop side pinning completely. It will reduce it though.



And just to clarify I do not by any means think I know more about mycology than RR  . I do suspect however, that I might be a little better at fruiting monotubs of cubensis


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- Ken Kesey


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19034389 - 10/26/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:

And just to clarify I do not by any means think I know more about mycology than RR  . I do suspect however, that I might be a little better at fruiting monotubs of cubensis




No doubt. 

I've never fruited a monotub of cubensis.  By the time Ohmatic built his first monotub, I was long-gone from growing cubensis and only growing edibles. Most of the advice I've given in the last decade here is a result of research into edibles which are much harder to grow.  The research into pinning properties of edibles has led to advances in mushroom growing which have resulted in far better cubensis flushes than I ever got decades ago when my scanned 35mm pictures were taken. In fact, there will be another major announcement regarding brand new changes to our mushroom farm in the next few months.

Light is definitely a pinning trigger, but its effect comes on after full colonization unless someone puts colonizing jars in direct sunlight which will cause early pinning every time.

The liner on tubs prevents the fresh air exchange around the edges.  However, I'm of mixed opinion on this one.  I've seen massive flushes from side mushrooms which easily matched the yield of wall-to-wall flushes on the top surface.  If you look at manure in a cow pasture, the cubensis almost always fruit from the edges of the pile, not on top.  It seems reaching the edges of the substrate is a natural signal for cubensis to pin, and it seems to want to do it there.
RR


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19034412 - 10/26/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Having to pick side pins is just such a damn pia! :lol:


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: Stromrider]
    #19034450 - 10/26/13 07:32 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

If you look at manure in a cow pasture, the cubensis almost always fruit from the edges of the pile, not on top.  It seems reaching the edges of the substrate is a natural signal for cubensis to pin, and it seems to want to do it there.





Never thought about that before, but it makes sense why they like to side pin so much.


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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19035405 - 10/26/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

im no using a monotub i had bins in a martha that arent very big should i use liner and what should i use for liner? im going o start using aluimin foil soon because i wanted a deeper substrate should i line them as well? keep in mind this is my completely first grow and those are my first pins ive ever had. Am i atleast doing alright?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19036136 - 10/26/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
im no using a monotub i had bins in a martha that arent very big should i use liner and what should i use for liner? im going o start using aluimin foil soon because i wanted a deeper substrate should i line them as well? keep in mind this is my completely first grow and those are my first pins ive ever had. Am i atleast doing alright?





Yes you are definitely doing alright for your first grow. Better than I did my first grow. I would not use foil if I were you. Myc can apparently eat through it and it gets kinda messed up and hard to handle after a couple flushes.

But if you do, you still want to line it because when the substrate sinks, plastic liner will shrink with it. This prevents air from getting down there and causing side pins.

As was discussed you could use clear or black. I like to use black because I feel it helps a little.

When you pick them you can soak for around 6 hours, drain, then put back in fruiting and should have a second pinset in a few days.
Also make sure you dry/store them good so you do not ruin all your hard work


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19037098 - 10/26/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Then why don't you use a white liner to reflect more light?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: abltsandwich]
    #19037144 - 10/26/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

abltsandwich said:
Then why don't you use a white liner to reflect more light?




Because I dont want it to reflect light. I want it black so it absorbs ALL light and puts out no light whatsoever on either side  :shrug:


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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OfflineJMcDoogle
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19037163 - 10/26/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've noticed a lot of threads NAH posts on becomes debates and deters from the original posts, this one not so much, but cant we all just get along?


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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19037816 - 10/26/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

okay here they are now the veils broke completely should i let them grow a while longer or pick them now? and by soaking do you mean submerged in water? if so does it need to be distilled? thanks for all the feedback this is helping me tremendously



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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19037828 - 10/26/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

and for the liner can it be a garbage bag? and how would i serilize it?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19038607 - 10/26/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

You could pretty much pick them any time now pretty much. With penis envy you cannot take a spore print, only a swab, so you might want to get into cloning if you want to preserve your culture




Yes it could be a garbage bag. And there is really no way to sterilize it, but at that stage the myc will have somewhat of an immune system to fight off contams. That is why you can open it and mist,fan it every day without getting contams.

I just put the inside of the bag facing up because I figure it was less exposed to outside spores during production and packing


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OfflineTheSacrednessOfGeo
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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19038635 - 10/26/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

now when you say to preserve my culture why couldnt i countinuosly just do rye to rye which is what im trying to accomplish now. would that be innefective? and what do i do after a cotton swab i havent got much into that.


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19038919 - 10/27/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
now when you say to preserve my culture why couldnt i countinuosly just do rye to rye which is what im trying to accomplish now. would that be innefective? and what do i do after a cotton swab i havent got much into that.





Well if youre doing grain to grain with rye that works, if you clone a mushroom you could get better yields.

You would need a sterile cotton swab(q-tip) and rub it up in the gills, then quickly put it into a ziplock baggie. Then when I make the spore syringe I will wipe the surface of the plastic bag with alcohol and stick the needle right through the plastic and squirt water onto the q-tip with the spores and rub it to knock some loose, then suck the water back up.

I didnt order sterile cotton swabs so I just threw some q-tips into a jar and pressure cooked it


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19039126 - 10/27/13 02:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

and that is actually the process for cloning? so if i did that it would be not the same but similar to agar?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19039155 - 10/27/13 02:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
and that is actually the process for cloning? so if i did that it would be not the same but similar to agar?





No not at all, that is just how you get spores from penis envy. You should definitely use the search and read all you can about cloning before you try it


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19039157 - 10/27/13 02:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
okay here they are now the veils broke completely should i let them grow a while longer or pick them now? and by soaking do you mean submerged in water? if so does it need to be distilled? thanks for all the feedback this is helping me tremendously







Yes submerged, tap water will work


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19040213 - 10/27/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

okay awesome im going to pick them tonight and try dunking them would you suggest trying to clone or go for agar first i seen your harvest and i seriously want mine to look like that if you goto my threads you can see my setup could you pick that apart and tell me what i could do to make i better??


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19041687 - 10/27/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
okay awesome im going to pick them tonight and try dunking them would you suggest trying to clone or go for agar first i seen your harvest and i seriously want mine to look like that if you goto my threads you can see my setup could you pick that apart and tell me what i could do to make i better??





Well it is not cloning or agar, you clone TO agar. Like cut a piece of the mushroom and place it on agar. But there is a lot to it, way to much for me to type out, so you should research it. And you could also do the cardboard cloning tek which does not use agar and is easier. I have even cut a piece of the mushroom and stuck it in a grain jar to grow out and do a g2g.

What I did to get that harvest is use a 66qt tub with a cloned penis envy culture. Using coco/verm and some gypsum

I use popcorn for my spawn. A lot of people talk a lot of shit on popcorn saying it is hard to work with or whatever but I love it over any other grain


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19041873 - 10/27/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19041891 - 10/27/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

how many quart jars of substrate do you use for a grow like that and also are you using a mono or martha? and how do you heat up all those jars while their in their inncubating stage?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19042085 - 10/27/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
how many quart jars of substrate do you use for a grow like that and also are you using a mono or martha? and how do you heat up all those jars while their in their inncubating stage?






I use 7 quart jars, and about 9 of substarte material. I have no martha, just monotubs. It is in a small room with a temp regulated heater.  I keep it between 74-78 f. I fruit and incubate in the same room


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19042603 - 10/27/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

okay i see i like the martha setup i have i think ill just get bigger tubs to go in there. do i need a container that size to producefruits that big?


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19042835 - 10/27/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

TheSacrednessOfGeo said:
okay i see i like the martha setup i have i think ill just get bigger tubs to go in there. do i need a container that size to producefruits that big?





No its not like a martha setup at all. Just tubs with lids stacked on each other.

Not always, but in my expereince the bigger the tub, the bigger the fruits


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19042965 - 10/27/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

awesome you think i could it would work if i setup a mono sized tub at the bottom and useed that


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19043804 - 10/28/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I dont understand the question


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19048616 - 10/28/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

if i used a container the size of your mono tub and set it up in he martha


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Re: when do i pick?? [Re: TheSacrednessOfGeo]
    #19049197 - 10/28/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I suppose that could, I have never used a martha. the tub lids work fine for me


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