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OfflineLearyfanS
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"Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation)
    #1902980 - 09/10/03 10:54 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

Everyone should see this little flash movie by "Take Back The Media". It goes through the timeline up until the leaves Booker Elementary. They play Mozart while they make their case. I give it 5 "Bush Knew" pins. VERY good.

"What you are about to see may shock you....."


>Click here<





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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Learyfan]
    #1903023 - 09/10/03 11:05 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

If Bush knew this was going to happen in advance why the hell did he act so suspiciously? (assuming that this information is correct) Had he known in advance he would surely have prepared how he was going to act when it happened.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: z@z.com]
    #1903045 - 09/10/03 11:10 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

yeah, and when planes are falling from the sky and more are
missing off course you just sit there and keep reading little
red riding hood without whisking the president to safety?

again, MAJOR breakdown in national security if this is how
things are handled.

what a farce...

(edit: typo/formatting)


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Edited by afoaf (09/10/03 11:12 PM)


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1903051 - 09/10/03 11:11 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

I think mistakes were made no question, but I am willing to bet that the mistakes were mostly due to a breakdown in communication and poor intelligence on the crisis.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: z@z.com]
    #1903065 - 09/10/03 11:14 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

if that is the case, the best worst case scenario, then
what has been done to reprimand the parties responsible
for the breakdown or improve the system?

nothing.

what a farce...


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InvisibleScratcher
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: z@z.com]
    #1903503 - 09/11/03 12:46 AM (17 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
If Bush knew this was going to happen in advance why the hell did he act so suspiciously? (assuming that this information is correct) Had he known in advance he would surely have prepared how he was going to act when it happened.




His alibi was reading to school children. How perfect. Whichever PR exec dreamed up that little detail deserves a promotion. His suspicious behavior was just bad acting and more proof that the federal government has, and always will, look at the public as stupid and gullible. And they're right. Sure, you'll have the odd egghead putting together timelines that blow every single official version of the events of 9/11 out of the water, but in a country built on majority rules, why does it matter? Those precious masses in the hundreds of millions that clog that big gap between NY and LA believes what they are fed by CNN and FOX News. No questions asked.

Detach yourself from your American citizenship for a week and do some research on the events of 9/11 with an open, impartial, and logical mind. No matter what the truth of that day is, the very least you will come away with is the realization that there are VERY important unanswered questions that the government has refused to address publicly. Dare to question the motives behind this behavior and you will be on the road to the truth. Like I said; whatever that may be.

It is important to realize that in our public reality we see a very sterile and watered down version of what is Global Politics. It's always been a disgustingly dirty business but, like so many other things in today's society, it has sunken lower than previously believed possible. I hate so say this but sometimes the truth hurts: 3000 lives and a couple of buildings is FUCKING PEANUTS in the interest of national security. Bush needed his war and his reasons for it and by God, he got them. He can't just ignore peak oil now, right??? Imagine if when you woke up tomorrow morning that there was not a single drop of oil or gas left on the planet. Seriously, sit down and really think of the ramifications of that. The economic ones alone would be crippling. There would only be one word to describe it: CHAOS. This is the nightmare that the Bush Administration is trying to avoid in it's vision of the 21st century and this is what I was refering to when I mentioned national security. A country in chaos is not a secure one.

When the oil crunch hits sometime in the next 50 years, ALL of the world's power shifts to those with control of the GAS. Sure, parts of the world will move onto future fuels but who gives a shit. We've kept the right percentage of mankind back in the technological dark long enough to keep them addicted to gas well into this century. I don't know what they'll be charging but lets just say they won't be giving it away.

I, for one, do not agree with how this government is going about it's task. I believe there are alternatives to this violent path but, unfortunately, I think they are in too deep and there's no looking back. The only thing that can heal this fucked up planet is TRUTH. As a civilized race we have never had a sizeable public capable of handling the truth, it's too ugly. It would get in the way of our daily lives and disrupt the cash flow. Can't have that. Keep 'em calm and keep 'em working; that's a rule you don't fuck with no matter what. A major turning point in civilization will be when the public can handle the truth. We now have, only recently, the technology to offer a source of information that is untouched by government corruption and corporate greed but not too many are taking advantage of it. It's growing though, slowly but surely. I'm optomistic. In the mean time, I live for the day that George W. Bush's political career goes down in flames. That will be a historically great day for peace, humanity, and truth.



And don't forget the Patriot Act.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Scratcher]
    #1904851 - 09/11/03 12:14 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

well written, scratcher.

it's good to see you around.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1904854 - 09/11/03 12:15 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Agreed! Nice.





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OfflineRonoS
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Scratcher]
    #1905259 - 09/11/03 02:29 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Bravo... :thumbup:


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Offlineshakta
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905387 - 09/11/03 02:50 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Give me a damn break. This conspiracy theory of bullshit is sickening.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1905423 - 09/11/03 02:55 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

ah, i see the wool over your eyes has thickened shatka.....you really get upset dont cha?
An excellent thread everyone! :laugh:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1905424 - 09/11/03 02:56 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Give them a break. It's all that keeps some of them going each day.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1905514 - 09/11/03 03:12 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

this is topic is based on soooooo much coulda, shouda, woulda BS it's sickening, i'm starting to pity these fools.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905523 - 09/11/03 03:14 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

If anything, the facts show that Bush is not the man that should be in charge in a crisis situation.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1905559 - 09/11/03 03:21 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

That would imply that there were facts in the explanations of these wack jobs.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905587 - 09/11/03 03:25 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

The timeline, Bush's inattention to the situation and his lethargic response are what I am referring to. The man is unfit for the job (this is not an endorsement of his former rival for the position - he is an idiot as well).


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905593 - 09/11/03 03:26 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Here's a fact for you...Bush Knew.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1905613 - 09/11/03 03:29 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

The timeline, Bush's inattention to the situation and his lethargic response are what I am referring to




again nothing but circumstantial...

Quote:

The man is unfit for the job (this is not an endorsement of his former rival for the position - he is an idiot as well).




this is exactly what i'm talking aboot. You guys are so blinded by hate (one only needs to look at Learyfan for an example) that you're looking past anything that could even be construde as circumstantial and try to present it as fact. It is apparant that many here don't know what "Evidence" is. You guys would be tore up in court if you were lawyers.


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905618 - 09/11/03 03:30 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

follow the leader...


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905638 - 09/11/03 03:33 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
follow the leader...




Seems to be the theme of the American public...only insert "Blindly" in front...


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OfflinePed
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1905646 - 09/11/03 03:33 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Maybe Oliver Stone will do a film about this one too.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905650 - 09/11/03 03:34 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
Here's a fact for you...Bush Knew. 



No he didn't, but Learyfan did.  :wink:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905685 - 09/11/03 03:39 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Innvertigo said:
You guys are so blinded by hate (one only needs to look at Learyfan for an example) that you're looking past anything that could even be construde as circumstantial and try to present it as fact. It is apparant that many here don't know what "Evidence" is. You guys would be tore up in court if you were lawyers.



I am not blinded by hate, but I am disgusted by idiocy. The idiocy of our President and his half-assed response in a crisis situation. I am disgusted by the idiocy of those who give Bush a free pass, merely because he is not a 'liberal' or a Democrat. I don't care how bad the opposition is, this does still not make Bush fit for the job.

Of course we are looking at things circumstantially, but there are certain facts that come out of the circumstances. It is Bush's behavior and decision making processes under these circumstances that I call into question. I do not claim that 'Bush knew,' I do claim that he is incompetent, I would not want him to lead me into battle, I would not trust him to be a lifeguard on the local beach, he does not inspire confidence.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905686 - 09/11/03 03:39 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

how the fuck would you know what the american people think? Use your fucking head.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905748 - 09/11/03 03:48 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

ya know...we do have a little thing called "television" and "radio" and "Internet" in Canada...maybe you've heard of it?...You were saying?...


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1905753 - 09/11/03 03:49 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

LOL bush apologists are completly blind even to well laid out well documented FACTS.BTW has anyone noted that Cheney WAS whisked away!As should our alleged CIC.To say bush knew is to say he was coached as well as possible to act the fool he is,the puppet of much greater men,much more dangerous men(cheney ashcroft and walters and ultimatly bush sr.)I am no liberal,I am a quite conservative political citizen yet I realize that this country is being led down the path which destroys the constitution and personal and states rights.Not to mention destroying relationships which have stood between countries for decades.Bush knew, but only JUST what he needed to know to play a little part in a grade school drama,Pity other so called conservatives cannot accept the glaring descrepancies in the "official" truth.
Now instead of trying to brush this all aside let's here from some of you apologists a well laid out timeline which addresses each instance of failure by our CIC and explains how and why events unfolded as they did without rediculous assumptions about the altruistic nature of government.
WR: :rolleyes:


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905797 - 09/11/03 03:58 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

I was saying use your fucking head, just because a majority of this country doesn't "feel" the same way aboot something that you do doesn't make them "fill in the blank". You as well as many others need to get off your high horse and look at your own house before labeling others. The self-righteousness in this forum is overwhelming.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905803 - 09/11/03 03:59 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Did you even click the link?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905850 - 09/11/03 04:06 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

You as well as many others need to get off your high horse and look at your own house before labeling others. The self-righteousness in this forum is overwhelming.




I agree...you mean like labelling anyone that dares to question the almighty Bush a "Libbie"?...or Denouncing anything a "Libbie" says simply because it doesn't fit with your beliefs?

I have no problem admitting that I am self-righteous..if that's how you percieve me...then that's what I am to you. Can you recognize the same quality in yourself?...We often hate a quality in someone because we see it in ourselves...


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905876 - 09/11/03 04:11 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Oh you mean like if you are always accusing others of being filled with hate you might be the one who is filled with hate?  :smirk:   


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1905882 - 09/11/03 04:12 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

I agree...you mean like labelling anyone that dares to question the almighty Bush a "Libbie"?...




anyone that is a liberal is a libbie, use your head.

Quote:

or Denouncing anything a "Libbie" says simply because it doesn't fit with your beliefs?




that would be bad, thank God i don't hate anyone with different beliefs. I do however have the right to tell someone that i don't agree with their beliefs.

Quote:

I have no problem admitting that I am self-righteous..




you don't need to admit it, it's apparant.

Quote:

if that's how you percieve me...then that's what I am to you




you just said yourself that you are which makes my observation right on.

Quote:

Can you recognize the same quality in yourself?...




nope, give me an example

Quote:

We often hate a quality in someone because we see it in ourselves...




ha, sorry but you're wrong.


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Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1905975 - 09/11/03 04:28 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

OOPS! sorry didn't mean to ask for some factual rebuttal in the middle of a pissing contest.
WR


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1906044 - 09/11/03 04:40 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
ya know...we do have a little thing called "television" and "radio" and "Internet" in Canada...maybe you've heard of it?...You were saying?...




Ah, so you believe what the TV tells you. You would make an excellent American.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1906053 - 09/11/03 04:41 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1906101 - 09/11/03 04:50 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
... I realize that this country is being led down the path which destroys the constitution and personal and states rights.Not to mention destroying relationships which have stood between countries for decades...



Unfortunately your realization is not shared by enough people. Ignorance is bliss...


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1906137 - 09/11/03 04:56 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

that was pretty good... :lol:


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1906353 - 09/11/03 05:50 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

One awake! I guess that's about average now days.5stars to you!
WR :wink:


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1906368 - 09/11/03 05:54 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Now instead of trying to brush this all aside let's here from some of you apologists a well laid out timeline which addresses each instance of failure by our CIC and explains how and why events unfolded as they did without rediculous assumptions about the altruistic nature of government 




Bump? :smirk:
WR:rasta: 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1906383 - 09/11/03 05:57 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

You first. The 'timeline' presented by the convict that came up with this whole thing is full of gross assumptions, and utter bullshit.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1906664 - 09/11/03 07:23 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

35 USAF Airbases within range on 911 - 7 Air Stations on full alert covering the Continental United States and 28 more Air Stations within range of the 4 airliners on 911.

The 7 Air Stations that were armed and on full alert to protect the continental United States on Tuesday September 11, 2001

The Air National Guard exclusively performs the air sovereignty mission in the continental United States, and those units fall under the control of the 1st Air Force based at Tyndall Air Force Base (AFB) in Panama City, Florida. The Air National Guard maintains seven alert sites with 14 fully armed fighters and pilots on call around the clock. Besides Tyndall AFB, alert birds also sit armed and ready at; Homestead Air Reserve Base (ARB), Homestead, Florida; Langley AFB, Hampton, Virginia; Otis Air National Guard (ANG), Falmouth, Massachusetts; Oregon ANG, Portland, Oregon; March ARB, Riverside, California; and Ellington ANG, Houston, Texas.

28 other Air Stations within range of the 4 hijacked airlines

Andrews AFB 11 miles SE of Washington D.C.
Bolling AFB 3 miles south of US Capitol
Dover AFB Dover, DE
Hanscom AFB 17 miles northwest of Boston, MA
McGuire AFB 18 miles southeast of Trenton, NJ
Wright-Patterson AFB Dayton, OH
Cape Cod, MA AFS
New Boston, NH AFS
Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve Bases
Atlantic City Airport, NJ 10 miles west of Atlantic City
Barnes Municipal Airport, MA 3 miles northwest of Westfield
Bradley International Airport, CN Windsor Locks
Byrd Field, VA 4 miles southeast of Richmond
Eastern West Virginia Regional Airport 4 miles south of Martinsburg
Frances S. Gabreski Airport, NY Westhampton Beach
Greater Pittsburgh International Airport, PA 15 miles nw of Pittsburgh
Harrisburg International Airport, PA 10 miles east of Harrisburg
Martin State Airport, MD 8 miles east of Baltimore
New Castle County Airport, DE 5 miles south of Wilmington
Pease ANGS, NH Portsmouth
Quonset State Airport, RI Providence
Rickenbacker ANGB, OH Columbus, Oh
Stewart International Airport, NY Newburgh, NY
oledo Express Airport, Swanton, Ohio
Westover ARB, MA 5 miles northeast of Chicopee
Willow Grove Naval Air Station, PA 14 miles north of Philadelphia
Yeager Airport, WVA 4 miles northeast of Charleston
Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport ARS, OH 16 miles north of Youngstown

Source: http://www.af.mil/sites/alphabetical.shtml

Here is a link that shows exactly how prepared the Air National Guard is on a daily basis.

Quote:

Day or night, 24-7, a pair of pilots and two crew chiefs stand alert in a secure compound on Homestead, the base Hurricane Andrew nearly razed in August 1992. Within minutes, the crew chiefs can launch the pilots and send them on their way to intercept ?unknown riders,? whether they?re Cuban MiGs, drug traffickers, smugglers, hijackers, novice pilots who?ve filed faulty flight plans or crippled aircraft limping in on a wing and a prayer.

?If needed, we could be killing things in five minutes or less,? said Capt. Tom ?Pickle? Herring, a full-time alert pilot.






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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Rono]
    #1906932 - 09/11/03 08:51 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

What's fact is that the investigators that were hired to investigate the 9/11 attacks weren't allowed to see video tapes from one of the many many video cameras surroudning the pentagon, nor were they allowed into either of the crash sites. The eye witness accounts of the airplane crashing into the pentagon state that the plane did a sharp 180 turn then proceeded to perform a 2 and a half minute spiral down 7000 feet into the pentagon. The hijackers were described by their flight instructor as "Dumb and Dumber". That's fact, and one of the many that point directly at this being a conspiracy. You're just too close minded to take the time to look at the evidence.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: MisterKite]
    #1907117 - 09/11/03 09:46 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

There is no evidence, and anyone who believes it is weakminded. As the previous post stated only 14 jets were on alert to protect the entire country. It was believed that air attacks were not a very serious threat, what with the Cold War being over and all. The last time we were attacked from the air was 1941. I find it repugnant as hell how people second guess the people that tried there hardest to protect us that day including the President. This crap about him sitting in the school is just retarded. They left as soon as they were prepared to leave. They also drove at very high speeds once they did leave to get the President in the air. Air Force 1 took off at the highest rate of speed and highest angle it ever has. We were woefully unprepared for the situation for sure. This poppycock about the President knowing ahead of time is completely ridiculous, and the shoestring of dots 'connecting' it all together was created by a lying convict.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1907208 - 09/11/03 10:07 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

that's a whole lotta hot air...


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1907432 - 09/11/03 10:57 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

There is no evidence, and anyone who believes it is weakminded



Another Bush apologist resorts to name calling.I assure you my friend you will find ME anything but weak minded.I asked for a point by point timeline which refutes the clip shown in the first post and the best you can come up with is" Nothing to see here, Move along you looky loos"FEH! out of those 14 jets at least half would have been in position to strike if they would have accelerated beyond 25% velocity.That is if our CIC was really in the loop,eh?
So do you have as well an apology for this timeline as stated or are you going with the "weak mind" defense again
WR


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1907536 - 09/11/03 11:32 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
There is no evidence, and anyone who believes it is weakminded. As the previous post stated only 14 jets were on alert to protect the entire country. It was believed that air attacks were not a very serious threat, what with the Cold War being over and all. The last time we were attacked from the air was 1941.




Britain warned US to expect September 11th Al Quaeda hijackings







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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Learyfan]
    #1907590 - 09/11/03 11:47 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

What is the point of animating text except to prevent you from thinking about the words?


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1907606 - 09/11/03 11:53 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

?




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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Learyfan]
    #1907615 - 09/11/03 11:56 PM (17 years, 23 days ago)

That link you provided was an art piece, not an informative news piece.

Adding music to animated words does not make them any truer.

Good luck with your theory though. Maybe if you get some of the victims families involved you will gain some credibility.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1907639 - 09/12/03 12:03 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

It doesn't make it less true either. Come on. Music makes everything more entertaining. Anything that can attract people's attention to the situation is good.






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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1907652 - 09/12/03 12:09 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

There is no evidence, and anyone who believes it is weakminded.

there is plenty of evidence that the president knew the first plane had
hit before going in, knew the second had hit and still sat there for
another twenty minutes and then doddled for a bit and ended his
speaking op as previously planned, despite the fact that the entire nation
was being attacked from the skies and he is the only person in the
entire country who had the authority to take any definitive action.

there is also plenty of evidence to indicate that the protocols and rules
surrounding situations such as these have been carried out by the
books properly leading up to, and likely, since september 11th.

I find it repugnant as hell how people second guess the people that tried there hardest to protect us that day including the President. This crap about him sitting in the school is just retarded. They left as soon as they were prepared to leave.

I don't think anyone second guesses the rescue personnel in
pennsylvania, new york or d.c. for their courageous and selfless
work in the face of such devastation.

I do second guess the president's competency, and that of the
people who surround him when the nation is under attack and
depends wholly on his leadership and he does nothing less than
absolutely nothing. one of the biggest tragedies is knowingly
unfolding upon us and he decides to keep going with the PR stunt,
ignoring his responsibilities as commander and chief, so as not
to 'frighten the children'...leaving only when he was prepared to
instead of when he NEEDED to.

They also drove at very high speeds once they did leave to get the President in the air. Air 1Force 1 took off at the highest rate of speed and highest angle it ever has.

that's the hot air I'm talking about...back any of that hoo haw up
with some fact, please. and even then, what does that prove? I'd
hoped they woulda hauled ass out of there an hour and a half
earlier when the FAA and NORAD first became aware that planes
were off course and incommunicado.

We were woefully unprepared for the situation for sure. This poppycock about the President knowing ahead of time is completely ridiculous, and the shoestring of dots 'connecting' it all together was created by a lying convict.

convict? who?

every person and agency that has compiled the list of contradictory
official documents that prove that the administration and agencies
knew more than they let on to and earlier than they claimed and
STILL did nothing were all written or compiled by lying convicts?

now who's reaching for straws and shoestrings.

it's one thing to support bush, that's fine.

but there still needs to be an independent investigation carried out
on topic by someone other than the murderous thug, kissinger, to
determine what failed, why and how we can improve.

historical precedent shows that the government is equally adept
at lying to the population and putting political agenda before
civilian and military lives.

I wonder, will this be another one of those threads where you
miraculously 'change your stance' once every thread of your
baseless and adolescent arguments are refutted?

I sure hope so.

the truth will set us all free.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1908119 - 09/12/03 02:45 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

The entire conspiracy was strung together by a lunatic. If you buy this whole line of BS you are more gullible than I thought. I have no reason to provide proof that the President did not know about the attack, especially since no one has provided any real proof he did.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1908130 - 09/12/03 02:48 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

The entire conspiracy was strung together by a lunatic. If you buy this whole line of BS you are more gullible than I thought. I have no reason to provide proof that the President did not know about the attack, especially since no one has provided any real proof he did.

As far as changing my stance goes, sorry if that bothers you. I can change my mind on things from time to time, and I try to honestly evaluate things. Admitting when you are wrong is a good thing to do. Unfortunately some here don't grasp the concept at all.

What would you have had him do? Basically this entire 'theory' is based on the fact he did not go running out of the school with his hands waving like mad.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908716 - 09/12/03 07:07 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

you're wasting your time, they're conspiracy nutjobs. They'd be willing to give you facts only after their tin foil hats are securely in place and them pesky black helicopters go away..


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908758 - 09/12/03 08:11 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Have you actually clicked the link and watched it all the way through?


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: GazzBut]
    #1908766 - 09/12/03 08:17 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

LOL, its amazing what you can do with 2 years of hindsight...
Next we'll be hearing how Elvis and JFK secretly planned 9/11....


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1908785 - 09/12/03 08:31 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Very humourous...Have you clicked the link? If so which parts exactly do you think are as outlandish as Elvis claims etc..


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: GazzBut]
    #1908831 - 09/12/03 09:10 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

I did not have to. We have had this same tired argument before.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908844 - 09/12/03 09:22 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Perhaps your should...seems kind of close minded to dismiss it without even bothering to view it.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: GazzBut]
    #1908849 - 09/12/03 09:34 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Not when I have seen the entire argument presented before.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908856 - 09/12/03 09:42 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

How do you know if you have seen this before without even looking at it?? Basically, you have decided what you think and thats that. Im not saying whether Bush knew or not. THe info in the link is fairly intruiging though. Perhaps you would be so kind as to have a look and tell me what is wrong with it?


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908863 - 09/12/03 09:54 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

And you dare call yourself conservative,LOL! If you were in the least bit "conservative" an active,open mind is a prerequisite.As I said I am politicaly conservative and have lived through MANY political "slight of hand" but this is at least worthy of serious inquiry.The timeline stated in several places (with official references) is strong evidence if not of complicity then of GROSS incompetance.If you are NOT conservative enough to acknowledge the egregious assault on the constitutuion led by "conservatives"(ie;WOD,patriot act,victory act)and at least curious about why our air defense "stood down" then you are nothing more than a sycophant of the present regime not a true conservative.
WR


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1908864 - 09/12/03 09:54 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

ELVIS Knew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1908896 - 09/12/03 10:20 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Well said!... For a righty  :grin: 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1908912 - 09/12/03 10:29 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

I never claimed to be a conservative anyway. I don't care what you think of me personally. This entire argument has been done before, and links were provided that showed how ridiculous this theory is. I'm done here. If you want to believe this stuff that is fine. That is your right.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908917 - 09/12/03 10:33 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Do you bump into alot of things? It must be dangerous walking around with your eyes closed the whole time... :grin: 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: GazzBut]
    #1908932 - 09/12/03 10:45 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

And you dare call yourself conservative,LOL!




Yay lets push people into categories they're much easier to rubbish then....


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Edited by st0nedphucker (09/12/03 10:45 AM)


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908945 - 09/12/03 10:50 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

I never claimed to be a conservative anyway. I don't care what you think of me personally. This entire argument has been done before, and links were provided that showed how ridiculous this theory is. I'm done here. If you want to believe this stuff that is fine. That is your right 




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Spouting neocon rhetoric...free

Credibility....priceless

I am not sure the price of freedom.Some think it is blood.I prefer to think it is sweat, as one must actively think in order to keep others from stealing it.This requires more effort than shooting shadows like paranoid cowards.We are doing a drive by on the middle east to take over some turf just like happens every day in the ghetto.WE ARE THE BADDEST PIMP ON THE STREET!And were making Hoes all over the world right now.That's not conservative and it damn sure ain't about freedom, Eh?
WR :rolleyes:
 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1908955 - 09/12/03 10:58 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you dare call yourself conservative,LOL!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yay lets push people into categories they're much easier to rubbish then.... 





Get off it son I've seen far too many posts calling anyone who disagrees with the Bush company a "libbie" to feel bad about questioning a persons actual conservatism.If you wanna push what is seen as a Neo-conservative POV then you better be able to defend it.
If not....Shut the hell up :wink:
WR :rolleyes: 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1908970 - 09/12/03 11:05 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Slight difference my egocentric friend, whenever I use the term "libbie" its in paranthesis.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: whiterasta]
    #1908976 - 09/12/03 11:07 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

I don't care if you call me a conservative or a neo-con or whatever. It has no effect on me. I have called people here libbies plenty of times. I disagree with Bush on many things. Gay marriage, the out of control spending, and a lot of his social policies. I don't think that he knew about 9-11 though. You can subvert the topic by calling me names, or making fun of me all you want. I am simply stating that this theory is crap.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1908992 - 09/12/03 11:14 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Admitting when you are wrong is a good thing to do. Unfortunately some here don't grasp the concept at all.

changing your stance when presented with overwhelming
evidence that discredits or sheds new light on your current
beliefs, certainly, is noble and shows flexibility and reason.

but when stances are changed frequently and repeatedly
it begins to compromise the credibility of the person, especially
when they fight so emotionally for previously held-cum-flip
flopped beliefs.

furthermore, call me a nut job, but my complaint is pretty
clear and does not require a whole lot of *stretch*.

let me make it really simple for you people:

1. president knew going into the conference, as he has
previously admitted, that the first plane had flown into
the wtc.

and president continued with silly speaking op even though
we were experiencing a national tragedy, possibly an external
attack.

2. president, admittedly, was told during speaking op that
second plane had struck second target.

and president continued with silly speaking op, when it was
perfectly clear to the rest of the nation watching that we
WERE definitely being attacked.

if you refute those two points, you are senseless and simply
ignoring the simple facts of the situation.

with other evidence, you can make all sorts of assuptions
surrounding cheney and rummy's longstanding relationship
and existing plans for caspian sea oil reserves and the like,
but let's focus on the single most disgusting crime here:

why didn't the president act when he was needed most?

to wrap up, you've stated that you haven't and won't watch
the video...nutjob this, convict that, but by refusing to examine
the information from those that hold the opposite view as you,
you are doing nothing more than relegating yourself to your
current position without having all the information pertinent to it.

independent investigations NOW!


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1909053 - 09/12/03 11:38 AM (17 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

1. president knew going into the conference, as he has
previously admitted, that the first plane had flown into
the wtc.

and president continued with silly speaking op even though
we were experiencing a national tragedy, possibly an external
attack.

2. president, admittedly, was told during speaking op that
second plane had struck second target.

and president continued with silly speaking op, when it was
perfectly clear to the rest of the nation watching that we
WERE definitely being attacked.




How does this prove he knew ahead of time that it was going to happen? How do you know that they were not taking the time to create a plan to move the President? What would you have had him do? Did you expect him to jump in the fighter jet parked outside and go stop the planes or what?

He new we were being attacked, and he addressed the nation from the school. Then they hauled ass to AF1. Their actions just don't seem unreasonable to me.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Learyfan]
    #1909087 - 09/12/03 11:57 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:




 






I love how he is holding the book upside down.LOL!

:lol: 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1909094 - 09/12/03 12:00 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

shakta probably tried to watch it, but couldnt read fast enough for the slides and got frustrated :wink:


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1909097 - 09/12/03 12:01 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Good one. :rolleyes:


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1909101 - 09/12/03 12:03 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

How does this prove he knew ahead of time that it was going to happen?

I'm arguing that he is grossly incompetent and
failed miserably in a time of great crisis which
is exactly what the video, which you refuse to
watch or acknowledge, also asserts.

pay attention, this is conspiracy theory lite, with
75% less calories but all the taste of an obscene
failure of government.

again, this should be investigated.

How do you know that they were not taking the time to create a plan to move the President?

the country is knowingly being bombed from the sky
and your claim is that the secret service decided to
take 2 hours to create a plan on how to move the
president?

now who's wearing a tinfoil hat?

What would you have had him do?

he knew before going to the speaking op, so it should
have been cancelled and he should have stayed on the
move and in contact with all pertinent agencies so that
he could make the tough decisions that were never made
that day: take down the planes.

Did you expect him to jump in the fighter jet parked outside and go stop the planes or what?

let's be reasonable here, please.

He new we were being attacked, and he addressed the nation from the school. Then they hauled ass to AF1. Their actions just don't seem unreasonable to me.

it doesn't seem unreasonable to you that he knew we were
being attacked and he sat on his laurels for an hour and
a half and did absolutely nothing to take command of the
situation....just as the COMMANDER IN CHIEF is supposed to?

if bush didn't know, he sure as hell came off looking like an
incompetent coward.



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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1909106 - 09/12/03 12:04 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
shakta probably tried to watch it, but couldnt read fast enough for the slides and got frustrated :wink: 





LOFL! :lol: 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1909115 - 09/12/03 12:06 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

You are wasting you're time with these con nut jobs. :wink:


 


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: sirreal]
    #1909151 - 09/12/03 12:17 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

ur prolly right.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1909329 - 09/12/03 01:31 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

No I understand what you are saying completely. My arguments have been against the larger 'theaory'. I do have a question for you though. How do you shoot down a plain after it has crashed. The authority was given to shoot down the plains, but they git there to late.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1909495 - 09/12/03 02:17 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

please cite your 'authority was given' claim, I've never seen
that mentioned anywhere.

it's long, but an interesting read...it makes you think.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

regarding your last question, again, be reasonable, you obviously
can't shoot down a plane that has already crashed, but ask yourself
why planes were only scrambled in massachusettes AFTER the first
plane hit the WTC and in DC AFTER the plane had hit the pentagon
when they knew long before that these aircraft had been hijacked and
it is standard operating procedure to scramble immediately once that
conclusion has been reached...

(edit: typo)


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Edited by afoaf (09/12/03 02:22 PM)


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1909734 - 09/12/03 03:27 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I watched the animation.

It proved that the person who made it has some knowledge of Flash.

That is all it proved.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1909737 - 09/12/03 03:29 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

proof can only be acquired through asking the right questions. This animation asked a lot of those questions... too bad the Bush Admin refuses to answer... I guess they "do not recall..."


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1909738 - 09/12/03 03:29 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I wish I had the link to that article that talked about this whole thing. I did see interviews with the fighter pilots the other day though. They found out the first plain hit as they were taking off I believe. They were also just behind the second plain. They missed it by a couple of minutes basically. The show convinced me that with the way things were set up to work at the time, everything was done the best it could have been. The FAA seemed to have screwed up and waited to long to make the initial call though.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1909878 - 09/12/03 04:21 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

so, has anyone at the FAA been fired for this
enormous lapse of reason and protocol?

have any systemic changes been made to the
way they handle things to prevent disasters
like this from happening again?

B_H, did I say the flash page definitively proved
anything other than the president was where the
entire world knows he was that morning, yet he
claims was not?

if anything, that page proves that the author has
little knowledge of flash...it's shoddy work, at best.



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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: afoaf]
    #1909921 - 09/12/03 04:29 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
have any systemic changes been made to the
way they handle things to prevent disasters
like this from happening again




Yes, most definately. Have you flown since then?


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Anonymous

Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1910135 - 09/12/03 05:16 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

and today box cutter's were snuck onto planes at a dozen major US airports.

ahem.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: ]
    #1910138 - 09/12/03 05:17 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

You lost me on that one.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1910152 - 09/12/03 05:20 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

sense=0


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1910223 - 09/12/03 05:31 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

From Drudge Report:

GAO Agents Successfully Smuggle Box Cutters Past TSA Screeners
Fri Sep 12 2003 11:07:53 ET

Undercover agents were able to sneak box cutters past screeners at about half a dozen airports over the summer, prompting an inquiry into airport-security lapses by the chairman of a House aviation panel, The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday. MORE

GAO inspectors evaded detection by airport screeners after concealing box cutters among their belongings, according to a person familiar with the results. The person declined to identify the airports but said they ranged in size. At no time, this person said, were the inspectors stopped by airport screeners, some working directly for the federal government and others for private contractors.

The tests were conducted by the GAO's Office of Special Investigations in response to a request in April by House Aviation Subcommittee Chairman John Mica (R., Fla.). A spokesman for Mr. Mica said Thursday that the congressman plans to hold a hearing on the GAO findings within two weeks.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1910231 - 09/12/03 05:32 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

yeah, no one watches the news.

what the hell. there was a thing on fox news about how inspectors snuck box cutters onto planes, but i cant find it mentioned anywhere online.

no surprise, though.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1910238 - 09/12/03 05:33 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

ty sir.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: ]
    #1910355 - 09/12/03 06:01 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Nice. It does not surprise me though. The question is can they hijack a plain with boxcutters now? Can they get into the cabin, or are the new doors really secure?


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: shakta]
    #1910517 - 09/12/03 07:04 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

They shou ld make a law where people have to fly naked.


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1910520 - 09/12/03 07:05 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Ewwwwww.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1910531 - 09/12/03 07:11 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I get a lot of gas when I fly - low air pressure and all that... Do you think more people would notice it if I was nude?


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Re: "Bush Knew........An American Requiem" (Flash animation) [Re: Autonomous]
    #1910751 - 09/12/03 09:02 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

they'd be too busy staring at your man-boobs...

:smirk:

shakta, I'm talking about the FAA's notification
systems, NORAD and air force response times
and the like.

you can't get into the cabin, but you could pack
a little C4 in your bag and have a merry ol time.... 


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