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Offlineshakta
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: Xlea321]
    #1908015 - 09/12/03 02:14 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

That is not it at all Alex. Continue to ignore the truth. Did you even read the article?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: money for the war on terror [Re: shakta]
    #1909038 - 09/12/03 11:32 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yes.

Could you point out one word of truth in the paragraph below?

After September 11, the issue of an America-hating tyrant arming himself to the teeth has seemed more pressing than easing an embargo that blocks his access to money.



--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: Xlea321]
    #1909082 - 09/12/03 11:54 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

What part of it is not true? Many countries intelligence supported the claim. I am not sure we will ever know the real truth though. That is unless Iraqi weapons start being used in terror attacks around the world.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: shakta]
    #1909090 - 09/12/03 11:58 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

As I posted before:

"Armed to the teeth"? Where are the arms? "America-hating"? Saddam was so close to Reagan and Bush it was dubbed "the love affair". "Blocks his access to money?" I thought he was building himself sold gold palaces? That's three lies in one sentence.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,246
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: Xlea321]
    #1909928 - 09/12/03 04:30 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

That's three lies in one sentence.



So.... that would be two less than your average.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: Xlea321]
    #1910136 - 09/12/03 05:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
"Armed to the teeth"? Where are the arms?




I already covered that one. Quit being so damn disengenuous. Let's just assume for this argument that nobody knew the intelligence was flawed.

Quote:

"America-hating"? Saddam was so close to Reagan and Bush it was dubbed "the love affair".




After Kuawait I think it is safe to assume the love affair was over. This statement is after September 11th, not in 1986.

Quote:

"Blocks his access to money?" I thought he was building himself sold gold palaces? That's three lies in one sentence.




The goals of the sanctions were obviously to block his cash flow. The problem was he recovered his cash flow by screwing the oil for food fund.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: shakta]
    #1910312 - 09/12/03 05:52 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quit being so damn disengenuous

Quit spraying the personal bullshit around to try and cover your ass. Try and make a point instead.

Let's just assume for this argument that nobody knew the intelligence was flawed.

No, lets not. Lets stick to facts.

After Kuawait I think it is safe to assume the love affair was over

You're missing the point. It clearly had nothing to do with being "America-hating". Saddam was perfectly ok with america for decades.

The problem was he recovered his cash flow by screwing the oil for food fund.

What bullshit. Do you have the slightest bit of evidence?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlineshakta
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: Xlea321]
    #1910346 - 09/12/03 06:00 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

We all know Saddam took plenty of money from the oil for food program and built his fucking palaces with it.

The reason I said to assume that, is that was what the point of the sentence in the article was. It was explaining the mood in Washington after 9-11.

Saddam definately hated us after the war.


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: shakta]
    #1911980 - 09/13/03 06:23 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alright, forget about the justification for the war. It happened and we are in the thick of it. Who has a problem with the money Bush is asking for and why?




I personally feel shitty at paying taxes for an illegal war. A friend of mine approached a lawer about this issue and the lawer said citizens would have a case to refuse to pay those taxes or ask for their money back and that if my friend started a class action, that he would represent it for free.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: shakta]
    #1911994 - 09/13/03 06:38 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

We all know Saddam took plenty of money from the oil for food program and built his fucking palaces with it. 




Hmmm. I must admit I have heard that too. Although the same guys also told me Saddam had links to 9-11 and that his country was stocked up with enough WMDs to threaten the world. :grin: 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlineshakta
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: GazzBut]
    #1914111 - 09/13/03 11:58 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: money for the war on terror [Re: shakta]
    #1914518 - 09/14/03 03:55 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Try and listen to the experts on the ground shak. Not propaganda.

You do know the TWO UN heads of the "oil for food" program resigned in disgust saying they could no longer continue taking a part in the genocidal sanctions policy for example?

Here's what the UN head of the oil for food program said about Iraqi cooperation (and he should know)

CNN Moderator: David Welch, the U.S. assistant secretary of state for international organization affairs, points out that the oil-for-food program produces billion of resources "that can be used to address humanitarian concerns of the Iraqi people." David Cortright, president of the Fourth Freedom Forum and co-author of "The Sanctions Decade," says that the responsibility for the humanitarian situation lies with the Iraqi regime's "malicious, diabolical strategy" to gain international sympathy.

Why should the U.S. or the international community bear the brunt of the blame for Iraq's humanitarian crisis when Saddam Hussein refused to accept the oil-for-food deal until the worst of the humanitarian crisis had passed?


Denis Halliday: Since the oil-for-food program began at the end of '96, Iraq has pumped and sold some 35 billion dollars worth of oil. Of that money, the U.N. has taken 35 percent off the gross amount. To date, Iraq has received food and medicines equivalent to some 10 billion dollars over the four-year period.

You might ask: Where is the rest of the money? Ten billion dollars over four years divided by 22 million people, believe me, is not adequate funding to feed and provide medical care for the Iraqi people. In addition, it falls very much short in dealing with the damage of the Gulf War bombing by the U.S. and with other sectors of Iraq which were damaged by the war, such as agriculture, health care and education.

One of the reasons the U.S. is blamed for the humanitarian crisis is because politics have been used within the Security Council to block expenditure of oil revenues to meet the basic needs of the Iraqi people. The Iraqis rejected the first offers for oil-for-food until 1995, when calorific intake had fallen below 1,000 calories per day. They did so acknowledging that they were giving up their sovereignty over oil resources, but they did so in the best interests of the Iraqi people.

CNN Moderator: Iraq has insisted that the oil-for-food program be converted to euros rather than dollars, an act that is costing Iraq several hundred million dollars a year in income. Why shouldn't Saddam Hussein have to answer for taking so much money away from the humanitarian needs of his people?

Denis Halliday: I think converting from U.S. dollars to euros was simply a political gesture. If there is any loss of revenue, it seems to me a waste. Nevertheless, due to U.N. controls, Iraq has an unspent balance in United Nations? accounts of some 6 to 10 million dollars. Therefore, money is not the first problem; it's the ability to spend it properly. That's the problem Iraq faces. And the Security Council is playing politics with the humanitarian crisis.

CNN Moderator: In the program, David Cortright also expressed the opinion that, "It's hard to avoid the conclusion that the Iraqi regime has little or no concern for the suffering of its own people. It has actually consciously manipulated and allowed that suffering to take place in order to gain the sympathy of people in the West and other countries in order to have sanctions lifted."

Why should we lift the sanctions when Iraq has done little to comply with the ceasefire terms he agreed to on April 6, 1991?

Denis Halliday: The history of the Baath Party in the 1970s and 1980s shows huge investments in the well being of the Iraqi people. Billions of oil dollars were spent in health care and education. To my mind, it is Western propaganda to say now that Baghdad does not care about its children. The fact is, it's the U.S. that is in control of the Iraqi economy. And the fact is that politics are being played, both in Baghdad and in Washington, at the cost of the Iraqi people.

CNN Moderator: Wasn't Iraq having serious economic problems prior to the U.N. sanctions because of its eight-year war against Iran?

Denis Halliday: Yes. After the Iran-Iraq War, Iraq owed some 30 billion dollars to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. That was one of the issues between Kuwait and Baghdad. Iraq wanted to increase the price of oil in order to pay back its debts and to rebuild the country. Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were flooding the world market with cheap oil and, at the same time, demanding Iraqi repayment. That set off the crisis that tragically and illegally led to the invasion of Kuwait.

Question from the chat room: What is the Baath Party doing now for the Iraqi people?

Denis Halliday: The Baath Party -- as led by President Saddam Hussein, of course -- handles the entire oil-for-food program. That means they do the contracting; they do the handling and processing of, for example, wheat into flour; and they handle distribution of these foodstuffs in the country. According to my current successor in Baghdad, who is an expert on the world food program, Baghdad does an extremely efficient job of food distribution.

Question from the chat room: Can we be assured that assistance would go to the children, given Saddam Hussein's history?

Denis Halliday: I don't believe it's a matter of assistance. I believe that if the economy was restored to Iraqi management, the Baath Party would continue its policies of investing in health care, education, good water systems, electric power and employment.

Before the war, all Iraqi children were given breakfast and lunch in the school system. So, the fact is that we, the United Nations of the West, have demolished the human rights of the Iraqi children. There's no history of the Baath Party not meeting the basic human rights of Iraqi children. In summary, I think we have no basis to be suspicious of Baghdad?s approach to its own children.


Comment from the chat room: We get the impression that Saddam would rather see his people suffer than open his weapons development sites for inspection.

Denis Halliday: I realize that is the impression that's been given in the West, in the United Nations, but the fact is that in Iraq today, many younger people are angry with Saddam Hussein because they feel he has compromised too often under pressure from the United Nations and the United States. They're angry because they feel the honor and the dignity and the sovereignty of Iraq have been compromised.

There is more to any country than food and medicines; it's much more complex than that. We have to accept that the Iraqis are a very proud, ancient Arab people and, despite the suffering and facilitated by the economic sanctions, they continue to support the government in Baghdad.

Question from the chat room: Aren't you concerned that by lifting sanctions now, you could give Saddam Hussein a major political victory and increase his prestige among the Iraqi people?

Denis Halliday: Yes, undoubtedly, he will claim a victory and, of course, he will also undoubtedly stay in power. If one considers the alternative, using UNICEF data, some 4-5,000 children are dying unnecessarily each month. I don't believe loss of face on the part of Washington or London is important if we can save the lives of the Iraqi people. I think we should do that, regardless of a victory or not a victory for Baghdad.

CNN Moderator: If the economic conditions are so dire and if Saddam Hussein is concerned about his people, especially the children, why won't he comply with the weapons inspection regulations and other terms of the sanctions?

Denis Halliday: At the moment, there only is one issue and that is the issue of weapons of mass destruction. According to some of the experts, including Scott Ritter, Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction capability today. Even Hans Blix, who is the chairman of UNMOVIC (United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission), which replaced UNSCOM (United Nations Special Commission), has said that he does not believe that Iraq has redeveloped weapons of mass destruction.

I believe that today we see a huge demonization of Iraq, an exaggeration of Iraq's threat "to the neighborhood" and a huge capacity for military aggression amongst the neighbors of Iraq. Today, in fact, it is Iraq that is disarmed and surrounded by countries, such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia, which are heavily armed by Europe and North America. This is not a situation that encourages Baghdad to cooperate. And it is further compounded by Washington?s decision to finance the overthrow of President Saddam Hussein himself.

http://www.cnn.com/COMMUNITY/transcripts/2001/01/16/halliday/


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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