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JingleJoe
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Registered: 10/24/13
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is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense?
#19024258 - 10/24/13 07:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hello chaps, here's a possibly tricky one to identify but I'm eager to identify them because there's hundreds growing in my front garden and if they're edible there's enough to make a meal!
Habitat: Wood chips (rather old and rotten)
Gills: Gills, rusty brown darkened by spores, adnexed and free.
Stem: rarely totally straight, often curved and bent at the base. Usually about 5 cm but varies between 3 and 7 cm, about 0.5cm thick- usually a little over. Solid and stringy. white outside and brown inside.
Cap: 2 to 7 cm, rusty brown when wet (seriously "iron oxide in water" kind of colour) but pale creamy white when dry. shape seems to vary from the standard "nipple" sort of shape to wavy and flat. this photo of butter caps makes me think they are butter caps (but the stem is different and wavier!)
Spore print color: Purplish black... although I took the spore print by gently pressing the cap on to the paper, not in the standard way. I was careful to avoid damaging the mushroom or squeezing out any juice which could alter the colour. I'll take a proper print if necessary: there's plenty more where that came from!
Bruising: Blue and turqoise, especially around the edge of the cap but also on any other damage aswell- cuts, squashes, scratches.
Other information: smells mushroomy! Find a load of photos below of what I thought was a comprehensive sample showing both the rusty-orange colour when wet and the creamy white colour when dry along with a cut down the center to show the dark rusty brown inside the stem.
Edited by JingleJoe (10/24/13 07:22 AM)
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lsms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe] 1
#19024300 - 10/24/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would wait for a T.I to confirm but I would say those are cyans
Also I recommend taking real spore prints
-------------------- "We cannot proceed. You cannot rate yourself." Or can you?
Edited by lsms (10/24/13 07:33 AM)
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Blue-FunGuy
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe] 1
#19024311 - 10/24/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Psilocybe cyanescens. Spore print all of them and check for bruising.
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lsms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
#19024317 - 10/24/13 07:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I read it's best to cut them instead of pulling them for future fruitings
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iatebadshrooms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: lsms]
#19024725 - 10/24/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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WEll, i Do not see a veil remanecent present, which would definite indicate the deadly galerina autum........So The color looks right for P. Cyanescens the stem is nice and white, I do not see any bruising but maybe you took these pictures quickly after harvested and handled them properly to prevent them from bruising. The cut mushroom though I have no clue, and am confused due to absolutely no bruising anywhere I can see............ The cap s are wavy, The prints you made came out horrible because, ALAN ROCK, has a great tip, and I always use it now with mushies that dont wanna drop spores,,,,,,take an eye dropper and fill with clean water, put enough dropts directly onto the cap until it will no longer absorb the water, then move it onto your foil and cover with something that will block airflow and keep in some moisture, leave for 24 hours, you can take a peak after 12 and see, but usually 24 hours and there done. So remember that, exp with the wood lovers, they can be very picky when it comes to dropping spores, also the day the cap become almost flat is probably the best time to pick for spores, as for potency, I would pick half when they just open, and the rest a few days into the maturity of the wavy cap...........uhhhhh anyway, With the knowledge I have, MY GUESS is that you have at least 2 Psilocybe mushrooms there, most likely cyanescens, but could also be azurescens depending on your location, even azurescens can have wavy caps sometimes...........anyway, When your picking in the field.........they say.......When you get back , take out your haul, and inspect each mushroom carefully, STUDY WHAT A GALERINA AUTUMNALIS LOOKS LIKE , because OFTEN IT WILL GROW IN THE PSILOCYBE PATCH"S, and is sometimes extremely hard to separate out......So look for a veil on the stem or an old veil.......A darker stem......a more orange color, Maybe a smaller stature, smaller cap,,,,NOT wavy.......And many more things.......Now say you have a few shrooms your not sure about even after posting pics and looking and inspecting yourself, TAKE A SPORE PRINT!!!!!!!! That will give you the answer, most of the time...and use the ALAN tech I call it to take your print, Everytime I have used that method of hydrating the cap with drops of water and then setting to print........It worked. GOOD LUCK BE SAFE........
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Coen
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19024756 - 10/24/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wow! Hundreds in your front garden!? If those are cyans you are very lucky!
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Hashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19024757 - 10/24/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JingleJoe said: [/url]
Psilocybe cyanescens. I can see faint oxidation happening on the margin of this cap.
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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JingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Coen]
#19025421 - 10/24/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blue-FunGuy said: Psilocybe cyanescens. Spore print all of them and check for bruising.
I'm just left with more questions now: what does a spore print indicating psilocybe cyanescense look like? what about a bad one? (galerina autum, I'm looking at you!)
What about the "going pale when dry" is that common of psilocybe cyanescense?
I'd almost rather these were edible butter caps, liberty caps are easy enough to identify and come by 
Quote:
Coen said: Wow! Hundreds in your front garden!? If those are cyans you are very lucky!
One of my few breaks in life then hahaha  If you want some drop by and pick up a few woodchips; for the mycelium and grow your own! It's thick with the stuff! There's as many young ones as there are fully grown and they come up this time every year, so I have more to come... hundreds may be an exaggeration but it's definately more than 20 mature at the time of typing, with as many young.
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JingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19025550 - 10/24/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I took a few more photos of the mushroom I intend to get a spore print from, they are not as clear but they are mostly just to show the dramatic colour change when dry and further evidence of a lack of a veil. By the way, I'll be doing the spore print on white paper not that kitchen roll 
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Joie


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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19025553 - 10/24/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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ftr there's no question about any of the ones in your comprehensive sample. & P. cyanescens spores are a dark purplish hue, and G. marginata spores are rusty brown.
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Hashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Joie]
#19025635 - 10/24/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That color change is called hygrophanation. Characteristic of many Psilocybe species.
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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JingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger]
#19025676 - 10/24/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thankyou everyone! This is going to be a fun weekend if the spore print is dark purple I'm going to spore print a few more, I assume form what you've said, that is the definitive test?
Any other poisonous look alikes I need to rule out in this case?
I've been poring over pictures of "the funeral bell" and look alikes, so I think I've got a good grasp on the differences now.
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Hashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19025707 - 10/24/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JingleJoe said: Thankyou everyone! This is going to be a fun weekend if the spore print is dark purple I'm going to spore print a few more, I assume form what you've said, that is the definitive test?
Any other poisonous look alikes I need to rule out in this case?
I've been poring over pictures of "the funeral bell" and look alikes, so I think I've got a good grasp on the differences now.
You shouldn't need to spore print them all... I think you should know them by scent, that hygrophanation and the overall color and texture of the caps and stems, etc. Go ahead and scrape a stem with your fingernail and you will see it turn dark blue. Also, if you pinch the edge of the cap it will oxidize pretty quickly.
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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JingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger]
#19025737 - 10/24/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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the one I just picked for spore printing has already left a pretty clear print! I'll leave it till the morning and get a good idea of colour.
Strangely the one I picked for printing hasn't bruised much at all, a bad sign? I gave it a good hard pinch on one edge and a few scratches on the top... we'll see what happens, perhaps they don't bruise as well when dry?
So, what do they smell like? mine smell that classic "mushroomy" smell
Edited by JingleJoe (10/24/13 01:33 PM)
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Hashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19025753 - 10/24/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JingleJoe said: the one I just picked for spore printing has already left a pretty clear print! I'll leave it till the morning and get a good idea of colour.
Strangely the one I picked for printing hasn't bruised much at all, a bad sign? I gave it a good hard pinch on one edge and a few scratches on the top... we'll see what happens, perhaps they don't bruise as well when dry?
So, what do they smell like? mine smell that classic "mushroomy" smell 
Yes they bruise more readily when they are fresh. And they have a wonderful farinaceous scent.
-------------------- Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus (Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus
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JingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger]
#19029552 - 10/25/13 03:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is the spore print after more than 12 hours:

I changed the white balance of my camera after the first photo and between one or two others, you can see the difference but I still don't think any of them got the colour totally realistic however you can get a better idea, it was between all the slight variations.
Looks purplish blackish brown to me, like a deep redish purple mixed with black. The spore print was pretty damn black even after an hour last night.
You can also see some blue-ish bruising and the four marks i made in the cap with my nail, it was pretty dry so they didn't bruise much.
What do you think it is chaps?
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koods
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger] 1
#19029618 - 10/25/13 05:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hashfinger said:
Quote:
JingleJoe said: the one I just picked for spore printing has already left a pretty clear print! I'll leave it till the morning and get a good idea of colour.
Strangely the one I picked for printing hasn't bruised much at all, a bad sign? I gave it a good hard pinch on one edge and a few scratches on the top... we'll see what happens, perhaps they don't bruise as well when dry?
So, what do they smell like? mine smell that classic "mushroomy" smell 
Yes they bruise more readily when they are fresh. And they have a wonderful farinaceous scent. 
Farinaceous - that is the most useless word. Nobody knows what it is, and if you actually look at the definition, it doesn't describe the smell of psilocybes — my ovoids smell nothing like flour.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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lsms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: koods]
#19029707 - 10/25/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Farinaceous - that is the most useless word. Nobody knows what it is, and if you actually look at the definition, it doesn't describe the smell of psilocybes — my ovoids smell nothing like flour.
I have to agree with you. Scent seems pretty subjective, in my eyes, err nose. For example I was photographing a Phallus species and never even noticed the terrible scent I was later told they have when mature.
-------------------- "We cannot proceed. You cannot rate yourself." Or can you?
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Inconspicuous
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: lsms]
#19029711 - 10/25/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Can you take a picture of your patch please?
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JingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Inconspicuous]
#19030852 - 10/25/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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fuck the smell, who nose if anyone's nose works the same!?  what about those spore prints? any further diagnosis?
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rev0kadavur
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19030858 - 10/25/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cyans~
-------------------- - Question # Everything -
 
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dodeski
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19030864 - 10/25/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Koods said:
Farinaceous - that is the most useless word. Nobody knows what it is, and if you actually look at the definition, it doesn't describe the smell of psilocybes — my ovoids smell nothing like flour.
I thought farinaceous was a texture, not a smell.
Quote:
JingleJoe said: Here is the spore print after more than 12 hours:

I changed the white balance of my camera after the first photo and between one or two others, you can see the difference but I still don't think any of them got the colour totally realistic however you can get a better idea, it was between all the slight variations.
Looks purplish blackish brown to me, like a deep redish purple mixed with black. The spore print was pretty damn black even after an hour last night.
You can also see some blue-ish bruising and the four marks i made in the cap with my nail, it was pretty dry so they didn't bruise much.
What do you think it is chaps? 
Psilocybe cyanesens is what you have here.
Deadly look alike include; Hypholoma fasciculare, several species in the Galerina genus, and various other small brown mushrooms.
-------------------- "People use the word "natural" ... What is natural to me are these botanical species which interact directly with the nervous system. What I consider artificial is 4 years at Harvard, and the Bible, and Saint Patrick's cathedral, and the Sunday school teachings." -Timothy Leary “You are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness.” ― Terence McKenna "In defying the authority we become the authorities" - Unknown
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rev0kadavur
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
#19030881 - 10/25/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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those other ones seem to be a little off though.. i have seen dryer cyans look that color in the cap.. but the gills and stem just seem slightly off.... definitely spore print those ones... the first set of pics are definitely 100% cyans~
-------------------- - Question # Everything -
 
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rev0kadavur
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: rev0kadavur]
#19030885 - 10/25/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh, wow.. okay, saw the prints.. discount my last statement, those be them!
-------------------- - Question # Everything -
 
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ACorvus
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Hi all,
I find the farinaceous description difficult too. To me at least Cyans and Semis (the species I have had experience with) smell pretty similar, to me it's a very "wet earthy" smell, definitely more intense than the soil they both grow on. I can also detect a hint of yeast, and maybe a little bit of bitter. It's not unpleasant, but neither is is anything you'd ever describe as "tempting"!
The taste on the other hand is easier to describe - just like stagnant water - if you've ever swum in a small pond you'll know the taste of the water when it gets in your mouth. The only thing different from that is you get a pretty strong bitter/alkaline aftertaste, much like chewing tobacco.
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JingleJoe
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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: ACorvus]
#19041022 - 10/27/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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thanks everyone! I can confirm, they were wavey caps! P. cyanescense mushrooms. Most definately. thanks again   
Some additional details and questions:
They tasted like moldy old walnuts or hazel nuts, only one was barely bitter at all.
They have dried well; my technique is 3 to 5 hours in a fan oven on the lowest temperature setting, gets them dry as a cracker or a dry dead leaf, liberty caps dried in this method maintained most of thier potentcy.
The spore print of one which I left for more than 24 hours ended up dark brown, aren't they supposed to be purplish black? do the additional spores really alter the colour that much?
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lsms
Strangler



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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: JingleJoe]
#19041081 - 10/27/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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As far as drying, it seems like you did it right. Maybe they naturally taste unpleasant Dark brown could mean a couple things in my opinion (I am not an expert by any means)
1) Galerina 
2) Maybe the print was wet still? If you let it sit and dry for 5 minutes or so the color may change.
3) What a T.I will tell you it actually is from
-------------------- "We cannot proceed. You cannot rate yourself." Or can you?
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JingleJoe
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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: lsms]
#19041470 - 10/27/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
lsms said: As far as drying, it seems like you did it right. Maybe they naturally taste unpleasant Dark brown could mean a couple things in my opinion (I am not an expert by any means)
1) Galerina 
99% certain it was not; found a galerina near by and could really tell the difference. Although this means they are in the area, I checked them so thoroughly I don't think I mistook one for a wavy cap.
Quote:
2) Maybe the print was wet still? If you let it sit and dry for 5 minutes or so the color may change.
I dried it over a toaster and observed very little change.
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jet li
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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: JingleJoe]
#19041490 - 10/27/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You have pretty thumbs.
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RiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: jet li]
#19041522 - 10/27/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Did the one that printed dark brown exhibit bluing like the rest? Pictures? Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata can often have a chocolate brown with a hint of purple print that is lighter than the characteristic purple-black you generally see in the rest of the genus.
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JingleJoe
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sorry, no pictures, I got rid of it as it had gone a bit iffy having been left slightly moist for >24 hours and been picked for >48 hours. Maybe that had something to do with it? Having just looked up Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata I can definately say no, it was not that genus, as it looks too similar to the poison look alikes, I would have thrown it away or not picked it at all.
sorry if I'm kinda harshy rejecting everyone's suggestions but we are getting closer to the truth!
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RiparianZoneJunky
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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: JingleJoe]
#19041579 - 10/27/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JingleJoe said: sorry, no pictures, I got rid of it as it had gone a bit iffy having been left slightly moist for >24 hours and been picked for >48 hours. Maybe that had something to do with it? Having just looked up Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata I can definately say no, it was not that genus, as it looks too similar to the poison look alikes, I would have thrown it away or not picked it at all.
sorry if I'm kinda harshy rejecting everyone's suggestions but we are getting closer to the truth! 
Nothing wrong in throwing out a couple of funny looking ones, just suggesting that psilocybe prints can sometimes looks more chocolate brown when wet, in general though, even those more brownish prints look the classic dark purple-brown once they dry.
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lsms
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Re: Psilocybe smell [Re: JingleJoe]
#19041589 - 10/27/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Did you leave a shot glass or something over it? If so maybe that caused it to start decomposing?
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JingleJoe
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Registered: 10/24/13
Posts: 100
Last seen: 5 years, 30 days
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lsms said: Did you leave a shot glass or something over it? If so maybe that caused it to start decomposing?
Yeah I put a bowl over it but it was pretty big and there was a little gap around the base for ventilation but not enough for a breeze to ruin the print. But even mushrooms I've left for one day have decomposed to black gunk- who knows how long they've been acquiring maggots and bacteria outside?
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RiparianZoneJunky said:
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JingleJoe said: sorry, no pictures, I got rid of it as it had gone a bit iffy having been left slightly moist for >24 hours and been picked for >48 hours. Maybe that had something to do with it? Having just looked up Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata I can definately say no, it was not that genus, as it looks too similar to the poison look alikes, I would have thrown it away or not picked it at all.
sorry if I'm kinda harshy rejecting everyone's suggestions but we are getting closer to the truth! 
Nothing wrong in throwing out a couple of funny looking ones, just suggesting that psilocybe prints can sometimes looks more chocolate brown when wet, in general though, even those more brownish prints look the classic dark purple-brown once they dry. 
That's probably it I thought most of them looked black-purplish-brown, which we will now refer to as blapurprown, and they were almost certainly stil a little moist.
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