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OfflineJingleJoe
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Registered: 10/24/13
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is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense?
    #19024258 - 10/24/13 07:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hello chaps, here's a possibly tricky one to identify but I'm eager to identify them because there's hundreds growing in my front garden and if they're edible there's enough to make a meal!

Habitat:
Wood chips (rather old and rotten)

Gills:
Gills, rusty brown darkened by spores, adnexed and free.

Stem:
rarely totally straight, often curved and bent at the base. Usually about 5 cm but varies between 3 and 7 cm, about 0.5cm thick- usually a little over. Solid and stringy. white outside and brown inside.

Cap:
2 to 7 cm, rusty brown when wet (seriously "iron oxide in water" kind of colour) but pale creamy white when dry. shape seems to vary from the standard "nipple" sort of shape to wavy and flat.
this photo of butter caps makes me think they are butter caps (but the stem is different and wavier!)

Spore print color:
Purplish black... although I took the spore print by gently pressing the cap on to the paper, not in the standard way. I was careful to avoid damaging the mushroom or squeezing out any juice which could alter the colour. I'll take a proper print if necessary: there's plenty more where that came from!

Bruising:
Blue and turqoise, especially around the edge of the cap but also on any other damage aswell- cuts, squashes, scratches.

Other information:
smells mushroomy! Find a load of photos below of what I thought was a comprehensive sample showing both the rusty-orange colour when wet and the creamy white colour when dry along with a cut down the center to show the dark rusty brown inside the stem.



Edited by JingleJoe (10/24/13 07:22 AM)


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Offlinelsms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe] * 1
    #19024300 - 10/24/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup: I would wait for a T.I to confirm but I would say those are cyans

Also I recommend taking real spore prints:pipesmoke:


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Edited by lsms (10/24/13 07:33 AM)


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe] * 1
    #19024311 - 10/24/13 07:34 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Psilocybe cyanescens.:thumbup:
Spore print all of them and check for bruising.


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Offlinelsms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19024317 - 10/24/13 07:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I read it's best to cut them instead of pulling them for future fruitings:evil:


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Offlineiatebadshrooms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: lsms]
    #19024725 - 10/24/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

WEll, i Do not see a veil remanecent present, which would definite indicate the deadly galerina autum........So The color looks right for P. Cyanescens the stem is nice and white, I do not see any bruising but maybe you took these pictures quickly after harvested and handled them properly to prevent them from bruising. The cut mushroom though I have no clue, and am confused due to absolutely no bruising anywhere I can see............ The cap s are wavy, The prints you made came out horrible because, ALAN ROCK, has a great tip, and I always use it now with mushies that dont wanna drop spores,,,,,,take an eye dropper and fill with clean water, put enough dropts directly onto the cap until it will no longer absorb the water, then move it onto your foil and cover with something that will block airflow and keep in some moisture,  leave for 24 hours, you can take a peak after 12 and see, but usually 24 hours and there done.      So remember that, exp with the wood lovers, they can be very picky when it comes to dropping spores, also the day the cap become almost flat is probably the best time to pick for spores, as for potency, I would pick half when they just open, and the rest a few days into the maturity of the wavy cap...........uhhhhh        anyway,    With the knowledge I have, MY GUESS is that you have at least 2 Psilocybe mushrooms there, most likely cyanescens, but could also be azurescens depending on your location, even azurescens can have wavy caps sometimes...........anyway,    When your picking in the field.........they say.......When you get back , take out your haul, and inspect each mushroom carefully,    STUDY WHAT  A    GALERINA AUTUMNALIS    LOOKS LIKE , because OFTEN IT WILL GROW IN THE PSILOCYBE PATCH"S, and is sometimes extremely hard to separate out......So look for a veil on the stem or an old veil.......A darker stem......a more orange color, Maybe a smaller stature, smaller cap,,,,NOT wavy.......And many more things.......Now say you have a few shrooms your not sure about even after posting pics and looking and inspecting yourself, TAKE A SPORE PRINT!!!!!!!! That will give you the answer, most of the time...and use the ALAN tech I call it to take your print, Everytime I have used that method of hydrating the cap with drops of water and then setting to print........It worked.  GOOD LUCK BE SAFE........


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OfflineCoen
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
    #19024756 - 10/24/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Wow!  Hundreds in your front garden!?  If those are cyans you are very lucky!


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OfflineHashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
    #19024757 - 10/24/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JingleJoe said:
[/url]



Psilocybe cyanescens. I can see faint oxidation happening on the margin of this cap.


--------------------
Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus

(Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus


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OfflineJingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Coen]
    #19025421 - 10/24/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Blue-FunGuy said:
Psilocybe cyanescens.:thumbup:
Spore print all of them and check for bruising.



I'm just left with more questions now: what does a spore print indicating psilocybe cyanescense look like? what about a bad one? (galerina autum, I'm looking at you!)

What about the "going pale when dry" is that common of psilocybe cyanescense?

I'd almost rather these were edible butter caps, liberty caps are easy enough to identify and come by :wink:

Quote:

Coen said:
Wow!  Hundreds in your front garden!?  If those are cyans you are very lucky!



One of my few breaks in life then hahaha :crazy:
If you want some drop by and pick up a few woodchips; for the mycelium and grow your own! :laugh: It's thick with the stuff!
There's as many young ones as there are fully grown and they come up this time every year, so I have more to come... hundreds may be an exaggeration but it's definately more than 20 mature at the time of typing, with as many young.


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OfflineJingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
    #19025550 - 10/24/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I took a few more photos of the mushroom I intend to get a spore print from, they are not as clear but they are mostly just to show the dramatic colour change when dry and further evidence of a lack of a veil. By the way, I'll be doing the spore print on white paper not that kitchen roll :grin:


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OfflineJoie
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
    #19025553 - 10/24/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

ftr there's no question about any of the ones in your comprehensive sample. & P. cyanescens spores are a dark purplish hue, and G. marginata spores are rusty brown.


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OfflineHashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Joie]
    #19025635 - 10/24/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That color change is called hygrophanation. Characteristic of many Psilocybe species.


--------------------
Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus

(Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus


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OfflineJingleJoe
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Registered: 10/24/13
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger]
    #19025676 - 10/24/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thankyou everyone! This is going to be a fun weekend if the spore print is dark purple :smile: I'm going to spore print a few more, I assume form what you've said, that is the definitive test?

Any other poisonous look alikes I need to rule out in this case?

I've been poring over pictures of "the funeral bell" and look alikes, so I think I've got a good grasp on the differences now.


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OfflineHashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
    #19025707 - 10/24/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JingleJoe said:
Thankyou everyone! This is going to be a fun weekend if the spore print is dark purple :smile: I'm going to spore print a few more, I assume form what you've said, that is the definitive test?

Any other poisonous look alikes I need to rule out in this case?

I've been poring over pictures of "the funeral bell" and look alikes, so I think I've got a good grasp on the differences now.



You shouldn't need to spore print them all... I think you should know them by scent, that hygrophanation and the overall color and texture of the caps and stems, etc. Go ahead and scrape a stem with your fingernail and you will see it turn dark blue. Also, if you pinch the edge of the cap it will oxidize pretty quickly.


--------------------
Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus

(Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus


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OfflineJingleJoe
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Registered: 10/24/13
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger]
    #19025737 - 10/24/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

the one I just picked for spore printing has already left a pretty clear print! I'll leave it till the morning and get a good idea of colour.

Strangely the one I picked for printing hasn't bruised much at all, a bad sign? I gave it a good hard pinch on one edge and a few scratches on the top... we'll see what happens, perhaps they don't bruise as well when dry?

So, what do they smell like? mine smell that classic "mushroomy" smell :wink:


Edited by JingleJoe (10/24/13 01:33 PM)


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OfflineHashfinger
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: JingleJoe]
    #19025753 - 10/24/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

JingleJoe said:
the one I just picked for spore printing has already left a pretty clear print! I'll leave it till the morning and get a good idea of colour.

Strangely the one I picked for printing hasn't bruised much at all, a bad sign? I gave it a good hard pinch on one edge and a few scratches on the top... we'll see what happens, perhaps they don't bruise as well when dry?

So, what do they smell like? mine smell that classic "mushroomy" smell :wink:



Yes they bruise more readily when they are fresh. And they have a wonderful farinaceous scent. :thumbup:


--------------------
Species List (Georgia): Psilocybe caerulescens/weilii, Psilocybe atlantis/galindoi, Psilocybe cubensis, Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe fagicola, Copelandia cyanescens, Panaeolus cinctulus, Panaeolus fimicola, Panaeolus olivaceus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus, Gymnopilus junonius, Pluteus salicinus

(Ohio): Psilocybe ovoideocystidiata, Psilocybe caerulipes, Pluteus cyanopus, Pluteus salicinus sensu lato..., Panaeolus cinctulus, Gymnopilus luteus, Gymnopilus luteofolius, Gymnopilus junonius, Gymnopilus aeruginosus


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OfflineJingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger]
    #19029552 - 10/25/13 03:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Here is the spore print after more than 12 hours:



I changed the white balance of my camera after the first photo and between one or two others, you can see the difference but I still don't think any of them got the colour totally realistic however you can get a better idea, it was between all the slight variations.

Looks purplish blackish brown to me, like a deep redish purple mixed with black. The spore print was pretty damn black even after an hour last night.

You can also see some blue-ish bruising and the four marks i made in the cap with my nail, it was pretty dry so they didn't bruise much.


What do you think it is chaps? :smile:


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Onlinekoods
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Hashfinger] * 1
    #19029618 - 10/25/13 05:01 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hashfinger said:
Quote:

JingleJoe said:
the one I just picked for spore printing has already left a pretty clear print! I'll leave it till the morning and get a good idea of colour.

Strangely the one I picked for printing hasn't bruised much at all, a bad sign? I gave it a good hard pinch on one edge and a few scratches on the top... we'll see what happens, perhaps they don't bruise as well when dry?

So, what do they smell like? mine smell that classic "mushroomy" smell :wink:



Yes they bruise more readily when they are fresh. And they have a wonderful farinaceous scent. :thumbup:




Farinaceous - that is the most useless word. Nobody knows what it is, and if you actually look at the definition, it doesn't describe the smell of psilocybes — my ovoids smell nothing like flour.


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Offlinelsms
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: koods]
    #19029707 - 10/25/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Farinaceous - that is the most useless word. Nobody knows what it is, and if you actually look at the definition, it doesn't describe the smell of psilocybes — my ovoids smell nothing like flour.




I have to agree with you. Scent seems pretty subjective, in my eyes, err nose.
For example I was photographing a Phallus species and never even noticed the terrible scent I was later told they have when mature.


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OfflineInconspicuous
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: lsms]
    #19029711 - 10/25/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Can you take a picture of your patch please?


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OfflineJingleJoe
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Re: is it a butter cap or psilocybe cyanescense? [Re: Inconspicuous]
    #19030852 - 10/25/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

fuck the smell, who nose if anyone's nose works the same!? :tongue2:
what about those spore prints? any further diagnosis?


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