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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Stromrider]
    #19131873 - 11/13/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hopefully yogi won't mind me quoting

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
To be a christian means to accept and believe a whole lot of clearly dated, clearly man made, clearly contradictory bullshit.




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Offlineendogenous
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: all this beauty]
    #19133986 - 11/13/13 11:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
That's why there's a Communion ceremony in which the substance eaten is called the "Flesh of God". (The Nahua/Aztec word for Psilocybin is "Teonanacatl" -- which means "God's Flesh".)

Because Christ was One with God, (Entheogens), therefore the Eucharist substance, (Entheogens) was His Flesh and Blood. Christ said, "For My Flesh is real food and My Blood is real drink."

You have to eat God/Christ to see God/Christ.



Very nice.

Physical consumption of "godhood" in order to realize godhood is a very old concept.  The Christians were relative latecomers to the idea.




Since the true God is eternal, there is no religion that isn't a relative late comer. But, as Christ said, "Before Abraham, I am." He was identifying Himself as the 1st, the Serpent, the living Word -- eternal Life.

Just as God is the same God (Entheogens) whether They are called Yahweh, or Allah, or the Tree of Knowledge, or Soma -- so Christ is the same Christ whether They are called Christ, or Moses, or the Serpent, or Buddha.

The omnipresent Virtue will take shape
According only to the Tao.
The Tao Themselves are like some thing
Seen in a dream, elusive, evading one.
In Them are images, elusive, evading one.
In Them are things like shadows in twilight.
In Them are Essences, subtle but real,
Embedded in Truth.

From of old until now,
Under Names without end,
The First, the Beginning is seen.
How do I know the beginning of all,
What Their nature may be?
By these!

-- Tao te Ching, verse 21


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (11/13/13 11:39 PM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: endogenous]
    #19135190 - 11/14/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

endogenous said:
Just as God is the same God (Entheogens) whether They are called Yahweh, or Allah, or the Tree of Knowledge, or Soma -- so Christ is the same Christ whether They are called Christ, or Moses, or the Serpent, or Buddha.





Why do you regard the seprent as being Christ when it symbolizes the ego which is in perfect opposition to the holy spirit?


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (11/14/13 08:58 AM)


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Posts: 6,325
Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: blessed] * 1
    #19135334 - 11/14/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

Stromrider said:
Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
How great for you that he made you one of the good ones.




If only we could all be so lucky

But in all seriousness I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and perception on this matter blessed



Hello Stromrider, no problem, although i did rush that post and didn't convey all that i meant.

To put it another way, let's say i offer you a plate and i say choose one of the muffins.  You look down at the plate to see only one Muffin. Tell me did you choose which Muffin you wanted, or did you have no choice in reality.  Now if the same scenario happens again and i this time there are two different muffins on the plate, then it can be said that you did have a choice. In this way of thinking, one can choose Good or Bad, if all we could do was good, then there is no choice given, one must be able to choose bad, for them to be able to truly choose good.

As for why God allows the two muffins (good and bad) is so that from the heart of man, we can show him our choice. On the grand scale, he uses this fact for what he is doing. I hope that made some sense.
Btw, please tell me honestly please, why did you make this thread? What motivated you in making a thread called "Almighty God My Ass"




Pharaoh in Exodus clearly didn't have a choice. God 'hardened is heart', so he would choose evil, so then God could punish him, so that people could see how great god is.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19135363 - 11/14/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
...when it symbolizes the ego which is in perfect opposition to the holy spirit?



The obsession with the ego being the enemy of "spirit" or "holiness" is largely an Eastern thing.  The Christians were late to that game. 

To thrive, institutional religion requires an "enemy."  That's what fills up the weekly collection plates.  "War" against this or that is a great money-raiser.  The ego has long been the "enemy" for traditional Buddhist and Hindu thinkers.  The Christians turned the idea of the "wicked ego" into "Satan." 

I suppose it's easier to paint pictures of, and rant and rave against, "Satan" than it is to do the same vis-a-vis "the ego."

Or so the early Christians believed.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: all this beauty]
    #19135643 - 11/14/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Knowing that, still, how could the serpent, even hypothetically as a symbol be regarded as Christ?

I appreciate that wasn't your suggestion, but it's the only thing I questioned :smirk:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19135768 - 11/14/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Gnostics believe that the serpent is Christ because he was freeing man from the tyranny from the Demiurge by giving man the knowledge of Good and Evil. They believe that the serpent told the truth, and the Demiurge lied, because after eating from the tree, adam and eve didn't die.

fyi, Gnostics call the God of the OT the 'Demiurge', which created the physical world to trap the spirit, or something like that. And Christ comes from a God above the Demiurge called the Father, who was sent to liberate humanity from the Demiurge's reign.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19135930 - 11/14/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

endogenous said:
Just as God is the same God (Entheogens) whether They are called Yahweh, or Allah, or the Tree of Knowledge, or Soma -- so Christ is the same Christ whether They are called Christ, or Moses, or the Serpent, or Buddha.





Why do you regard the seprent as being Christ when it symbolizes the ego which is in perfect opposition to the holy spirit?




I guess because of what jesus said of being right like snakes or what snakes symbolize nature powerful ways to kill anyone

while from what I understood, the holy spirit in the bible is a ball of fire so it has nothing to do with conscious means in the spirit of rights clarity and peace

but I agree with how it sounds louche, as if it is becoming a fashionable trend for now to mean a kind of confusion between jesus and nature powers... I dunno why... they keep inventing any opposite argument to what is actually being for maximum of powers gains over the present known


Edited by absols (11/14/13 12:07 PM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19135986 - 11/14/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We are each of us part serpent/devil and part lamb/angel.  Jesus was said to be fully human (despite his "divine" origin), so he too was part serpent and part lamb.

As certain philosophical Daoists tell us, you only know what it means to be "lamblike" (gentle, innocent) because you know what it means to be "serpent-like" (conniving, worldly).  The one attribute defines the other.  Without the one, the other is meaningless.

This is why, in my very humble opinion, we should never wish away any of our human bits. 

Not even the ones that seem unpleasant, or unenlightened, or unappealing to us.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: all this beauty]
    #19136136 - 11/14/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
...when it symbolizes the ego which is in perfect opposition to the holy spirit?



The obsession with the ego being the enemy of "spirit" or "holiness" is largely an Eastern thing.  The Christians were late to that game. 

To thrive, institutional religion requires an "enemy."  That's what fills up the weekly collection plates.  "War" against this or that is a great money-raiser.  The ego has long been the "enemy" for traditional Buddhist and Hindu thinkers.  The Christians turned the idea of the "wicked ego" into "Satan." 

I suppose it's easier to paint pictures of, and rant and rave against, "Satan" than it is to do the same vis-a-vis "the ego."

Or so the early Christians believed.




While I've met many Buddhists who talk about the ego spreading around like a poison, and that it's evil, from my personal understanding of what the Buddha said, this is not what he intended at all. So much emphasis is placed on the ego because it is the strongest attachment our mind has, and attachment to things passing away will ultimately lead to pain. To cling to the ego as if it was real is what Buddhists call delusion.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: White Beard]
    #19136333 - 11/14/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
To cling to the ego as if it was real is what Buddhists call delusion.



I've never understood that.

Of course, the optimal way is to not cling to this or that and to bend in the breeze.  That's the way nature operates.  Saplings that bend to the ground when the snows come survive another year.  Those that cling to an upright position snap and die.

So I think we are best served by "bending" with all of our humanness, rejecting neither "this" nor "that."  Embracing it all.  Our "Big Bad Egos" included.

Our egos -- with all their worrisome effects -- have served our species well.  They've taken us to a point where we hope/think we can avoid the (supposed) obstacles that a (supposed) malevolent universe has placed in our ways.  Hence the origins of Buddhism and all other spiritual paths.

Do not wish away any of the human bits.

They serve us well.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: White Beard]
    #19136582 - 11/14/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Gnostics believe that the serpent is Christ because he was freeing man from the tyranny from the Demiurge by giving man the knowledge of Good and Evil. They believe that the serpent told the truth, and the Demiurge lied, because after eating from the tree, adam and eve didn't die.

fyi, Gnostics call the God of the OT the 'Demiurge', which created the physical world to trap the spirit, or something like that. And Christ comes from a God above the Demiurge called the Father, who was sent to liberate humanity from the Demiurge's reign.




As good of an explanation as I could have got. :thumbup:


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: all this beauty]
    #19136637 - 11/14/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
To cling to the ego as if it was real is what Buddhists call delusion.



I've never understood that.

Of course, the optimal way is to not cling to this or that and to bend in the breeze.  That's the way nature operates.  Saplings that bend to the ground when the snows come survive another year.  Those that cling to an upright position snap and die.

So I think we are best served by "bending" with all of our humanness, rejecting neither "this" nor "that."  Embracing it all.  Our "Big Bad Egos" included.

Our egos -- with all their worrisome effects -- have served our species well.  They've taken us to a point where we hope/think we can avoid the (supposed) obstacles that a (supposed) malevolent universe has placed in our ways.  Hence the origins of Buddhism and all other spiritual paths.

Do not wish away any of the human bits.

They serve us well.




I'm not saying these are my beliefs, but how I perceive traditional Buddhists view this issue. Once again, they don't think of the ego as 'big and bad', Buddhists view attachment- to anything- is the cause of suffering. There is a lot of talks on the ego because it's a very common attachment.

Quote:

Do not wish away any of the human bits.

They serve us well



There's many human bits that I believe don't serve us well, and if I could I could wish them away, I would in a second. Since wishing doesn't change anything, I don't waste my time.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19136749 - 11/14/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thanks bro


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: White Beard] * 1
    #19136792 - 11/14/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Once again, they don't think of the ego as 'big and bad', Buddhists view attachment- to anything- is the cause of suffering. There is a lot of talks on the ego because it's a very common attachment.



Some Buddhists (not all, but some) are obsessed with this "ego" thing.  And obsession is a major, major cause of suffering, in my view.

Medical science recognizes this, and there are products on the market to alleviate obsessive thoughts and behaviors.

Quote:

White Beard said:
There's many human bits that I believe don't serve us well, and if I could I could wish them away, I would in a second.



Name one.  I dare ya.

If you say "aggression," for example, I'll suggest that aggression is a very useful human characteristic.  The problem is that our aggressive natures sometimes get misdirected in nonproductive ways.  We can work on that without tossing that particular human bit in the waste bin, though.

If you say "jealousy," I'll suggest that jealousy is a natural response to certain stimuli and helps us get the things we want and need to survive and prosper in the world. 

Again, jealousy can be misdirected and become counterproductive.  That's a bad thing, but we can work on that.  Let's not throw that baby out, either.

Go ahead.

Name a human bit you would wish away.

I dare ya.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #19137022 - 11/14/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Gnostics believe that the serpent is Christ because he was freeing man from the tyranny from the Demiurge by giving man the knowledge of Good and Evil. They believe that the serpent told the truth, and the Demiurge lied, because after eating from the tree, adam and eve didn't die.

fyi, Gnostics call the God of the OT the 'Demiurge', which created the physical world to trap the spirit, or something like that. And Christ comes from a God above the Demiurge called the Father, who was sent to liberate humanity from the Demiurge's reign.




As good of an explanation as I could have got. :thumbup:





Wow I never thought of the Adam and Eve story that way. Thanks for the insight white beard. All you guys are great. Your discussions in this thread have really made me think and taught me a lot. For that I thank you


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: all this beauty]
    #19137315 - 11/14/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
Once again, they don't think of the ego as 'big and bad', Buddhists view attachment- to anything- is the cause of suffering. There is a lot of talks on the ego because it's a very common attachment.



Some Buddhists (not all, but some) are obsessed with this "ego" thing.  And obsession is a major, major cause of suffering, in my view.





I totally agree. I used to go to a dharma center for meditations and buddhist discussion about a year ago. There were a few there that were obsessed with saying things like "ego is terrible, it spreads from one person to the next like a disease. we need to wipe it out".


Quote:


Name one.  I dare ya.

Go ahead.

Name a human bit you would wish away.

I dare ya.




Unnecessary paranoia. Probably useful when we were constantly on the look out for predators, but essentially useless now, and messes up our lives, now that we have basic survival taken care of.

Also, Hate and intolerance.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: White Beard]
    #19138062 - 11/14/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I live in the south eastern us (the bible belt) and I am surrounded by Christians. What absolutely amazes me is how little any of them actually know about theology, the bible, and the actual recorded history surrounding it. How can people base their spiritual beliefs on something they know so very little about baffles me


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InvisibleWhite Beard

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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: Stromrider]
    #19138110 - 11/14/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, if they actually knew what it was about, I bet less would actually believe it.

I find it funny how so many people base their whole lives around a book they haven't even read. :lol:


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Almighty God My Ass! [Re: White Beard]
    #19138300 - 11/14/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Well, if they actually knew what it was about, I bet less would actually believe it.

I find it funny how so many people base their whole lives around a book they haven't even read. :lol:




:werd:
My thoughts exactly


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