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canid
irregular meat sprocket




Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 11,912
Loc: looking for zeebras, n. c...
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: rev0kadavur] 1
#19028437 - 10/24/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
rev0kadavur said: Cant mycology taxonomy just sit still for a bit... all this changing up and shifting around is hard to keep up with 
I wish. No, it will not be doing that any time in the near term, but at least where things are settling is going to put them in a more stable place in the long term.
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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it. If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.
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RiparianZoneJunky
hunter/gatherer



Registered: 10/30/11
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: rev0kadavur]
#19028681 - 10/24/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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rev0kadavur said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
All are Amanita muscaria var. flavivolvata. There are no other orange to red Amanitas on the west coast.
Is this true about the west coast???
-So there are no Straight Amanita muscaria (var. muscaria)? ...and there are not Amanita muscaria var. guessowii?
This goes against everything I have read about Amanita muscarias and their locals.
maybe i am reading outdated material?
Cant mycology taxonomy just sit still for a bit... all this changing up and shifting around is hard to keep up with 
I've read that technically all North American muscarias are the same species: A. amermuscaria. The color variance thing is just slight regional differences like hair color in people, and there are deeper genetic differences between muscarias of the same color from different continents than the ones of different color from the same. But yeah, taxonomy switches around a bit much for everybody who isn't making a career out of writing paper that switch around the taxonomy.
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
Loc: South East USA
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: xfsketch]
#19029926 - 10/25/13 07:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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xfsketch said: Daanng! Death caps eh MonkeyJesusFresco?
To be honest, they were white amanitas (egg and all) deathly or not I just assume all white amanitas are "deathy"
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
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jet li
The One



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 4,279
Loc: penis double yew
Last seen: 2 months, 12 days
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Quote:
MonkeyJesusFresco said:
Quote:
xfsketch said: Daanng! Death caps eh MonkeyJesusFresco?
To be honest, they were white amanitas (egg and all) deathly or not I just assume all white amanitas are "deathy" 
Fair enough.
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Bobzimmer
Crawlin' Kingsnake


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 8,696
Loc: NY
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Quote:
RiparianZoneJunky said:
Quote:
rev0kadavur said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
All are Amanita muscaria var. flavivolvata. There are no other orange to red Amanitas on the west coast.
Is this true about the west coast???
-So there are no Straight Amanita muscaria (var. muscaria)? ...and there are not Amanita muscaria var. guessowii?
This goes against everything I have read about Amanita muscarias and their locals.
maybe i am reading outdated material?
Cant mycology taxonomy just sit still for a bit... all this changing up and shifting around is hard to keep up with 
I've read that technically all North American muscarias are the same species: A. amermuscaria. The color variance thing is just slight regional differences like hair color in people, and there are deeper genetic differences between muscarias of the same color from different continents than the ones of different color from the same. But yeah, taxonomy switches around a bit much for everybody who isn't making a career out of writing paper that switch around the taxonomy. 
Believe it or not, North American Amanita muscaria phylogeny is still unresolved...
Amanita muscaria subsp. flavivolvata is not the only red-capped Amanita on the west coast. The Eurasian Amanita muscaria subsp. muscaria occurs from western Alaska and maybe down to the PNW.
A. muscaria var. guessowii grows in the east to about Michigan and supposedly isn't genetically separable from flavivolvata.
A. amerimuscaria is a confusing provisional name applied to A. muscaria subsp. flavivolvata to which A. muscaria var. guessowii can be considered a "yellow form", neither of which can be truly assigned to A. muscaria.
We also have Amanita muscaria var. persicina from the southeast.
Cap color in this group isn't necessarily indicative of phylogenetic differences.
-------------------- Mr. Mushrooms said: I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC. I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi. I really do. I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them. I think they are beautiful. I even dream of them.
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 3,352
Loc: The land, Ohio
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: Bobzimmer]
#19034873 - 10/26/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Amanita muscaria var persicina is being separated from muscaria, isn't it?
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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Bobzimmer
Crawlin' Kingsnake


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 8,696
Loc: NY
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: art2312]
#19034909 - 10/26/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
art2312 said: Amanita muscaria var persicina is being separated from muscaria, isn't it?
I don't know that anyone is actively working on that project. There's only a handful of people that are both qualified AND inclined to do such things.
-------------------- Mr. Mushrooms said: I will confess something that should be quite obvious, CC. I love mushrooms, i.e. fungi. I really do. I am talking about a strong feeling, i.e. emotion, for them. I think they are beautiful. I even dream of them.
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art2312
wanderer



Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 3,352
Loc: The land, Ohio
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: Bobzimmer]
#19035603 - 10/26/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh ok...wow, so it wont be changed anytime soon...
-------------------- I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful The only thing you really know about me is.....That's all you'll ever know!!!!
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 10 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: Muscaria or Flavoconia? [Re: Bobzimmer]
#19035731 - 10/26/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bobzimmer said:
Quote:
art2312 said: Amanita muscaria var persicina is being separated from muscaria, isn't it?
I don't know that anyone is actively working on that project. There's only a handful of people that are both qualified AND inclined to do such things.
If there were a handful of people both qualified and inclined, it would be done by now. There a handful of people qualified, but as far as I know, none are working on it at the moment.
Regarding the west coast, what I should have said is that Amanita muscaria sensu lato is the only red Amanita. It is not necessary to view the base of the stipe or even the underside to know if it is safe-ish for consumption.
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