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OfflineKalypto
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Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over
    #19014337 - 10/22/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ive had a set of tubs in fruiting conditions for 4-5 days with no pins about 3 days ago I increased air flow
Two days ago I reduced polyfil
This morning I put the fan on contantly insread of 30 on 90 off to try and get it started

Instead I have NO pins and Im getting Contamination

Possible reason that im thinking

I should have used bleach instead of alcohol to clean tubs

I didnt clean pillow case properly between pasteurization

I pasteurized wrong

Any tips or questions let me know


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InvisibleKhii Khwaay
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014374 - 10/22/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hard to say without pics.

What tek did you follow?


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InvisibleThadeous
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014375 - 10/22/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Was the substrate 100% colonized when introduced to fruiting conditions?


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Khii Khwaay]
    #19014389 - 10/22/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014396 - 10/22/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It wasnt SOLID white but there was white covering everything You could see a brown tint through some but that was only like 2 of the 6


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InvisibleKhii Khwaay
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014417 - 10/22/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What contamination do you see there? They kinda look like they're just doing their thing...

Did you dial in your monos like a boss as per Frank's instructions? Personally, I'd like to see the poly stuffed a lot more loosely in the top holes.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Khii Khwaay]
    #19014435 - 10/22/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Khii Khwaay said:
What contamination do you see there? They kinda look like they're just doing their thing...

Did you dial in your monos like a boss as per Frank's instructions? Personally, I'd like to see the poly stuffed a lot more loosely in the top holes.






Had mad trich in one tube . took that bitch outside and scrapped it

I have not dialed them in , I just moved so im starting back up again
Also I was waiting till my room mate moved out so I could have a full room to get the specifics down but since it seems to be hurting me ill do it now

Do you have a link?


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InvisibleKhii Khwaay
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014447 - 10/22/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



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InvisibleThadeous
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014456 - 10/22/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

hmph, the look nicely colonized as far as I can tell.  What contaminate did you get?  Trich?  If so, it can be near impossible to spot before it sporelates.  (Starts off white then turns green during and after sporulation.

If that is the case, I would look towards you pasteurization methods, as even partial sterilization is worse than an unpasteurized substrate.  I use this tek with 100% (so far) success rates.  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844/fpart/1/vc/1


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Khii Khwaay]
    #19014467 - 10/22/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Off to work

I think my method is decent I dont know if its perfect but I just vent steam from my PC into a tub with a pillowcase not touching any side holding my substrate , I let It reach about 180 then hold for 2-3 hours


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014480 - 10/22/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

4-5 days without pins is not that long.

I seriously doubt any of your tub dialing had anything to do with it. I have left the bottom holes un-pollied before and got green mold around those areas pretty quick though.

What is your substrate recipe? If it was anything other than CVG, then it's either your pasteurization tek or spawn contams.

If it was just CVG, then it is more likely your spawn.


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InvisibleThadeous
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014488 - 10/22/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

180 is way too high.  Proper pasteurization is 160 for 90 minutes.  You are sterilizing your substrate.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19014495 - 10/22/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

CVG?I dont know what that is

Im gonna hope im lucky on this and say That i think you mean coir verm gypsum which is what im using

And if it is my spawn that fucking sucks cause Im uber careful and started pcing for 2 hrs to ensure I dont get contams

I thought I got the 180 for two hours off this site *shrug* guess That needs to change


Edited by Kalypto (10/22/13 04:37 PM)


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014547 - 10/22/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I agree 180 is too high. I can also say I rarely see any pins in 5 days. It usually more like 10. Coir/verm/gypsum is pretty forgiving even if you sterilize it.

May have just been dirty spawn. Even if you pc your jars properly you can still get a contam during inoculation. What did you use to inoculate your jars?


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InvisibleThadeous
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014551 - 10/22/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah the sites information is dated at best. 

When you find time, check out the link I posted up above; it is a bit of work, but well worth it.  :sporedrop:


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Thadeous]
    #19014579 - 10/22/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
I agree 180 is too high. I can also say I rarely see any pins in 5 days. It usually more like 10. Coir/verm/gypsum is pretty forgiving even if you sterilize it.

May have just been dirty spawn. Even if you pc your jars properly you can still get a contam during inoculation. What did you use to inoculate your jars?




From prior experience I always get pins in under five days , but I did also wait a week to consolidate back then ( now outdated).

I use syringes still , which Im starting to think even the best ones have some contams

once my RM moves out Ill have a whole room as a lab so Ill be getting a LFH to do wedges

Quote:

Thadeous said:
Yeah the sites information is dated at best. 

When you find time, check out the link I posted up above; it is a bit of work, but well worth it.  :sporedrop:





Totally plan on using it tonight if possible

Well i think im gonna try his timings


Edited by Kalypto (10/22/13 04:49 PM)


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Thadeous]
    #19014583 - 10/22/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thad it's good to see you back active on the forum. You haven't really been around much since I joined but I have read many of your old post and learned a lot from them. Hope you stick around some


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Stromrider]
    #19014606 - 10/22/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Totally I only stopped growing cause I was moving , Ive still got a TON of learning to do , I one day HOPE to have my own strain


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014699 - 10/22/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah I might not have messed with them so much, can take a week or more to see pins.  I notice your tubs are on the ground... in general it is recommended you keep your projects at least three feet above grounds surface, as the nastiest of contams float around in this region usually.


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014727 - 10/22/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

From prior experience I always get pins in under five days , but I did also wait a week to consolidate back then ( now outdated).



Consolidating's not outdated, it's just optional. Like the others I wouldn't be too worried after only 4-5 days, they look alright.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Gretchenmeister]
    #19014926 - 10/22/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
Yeah I might not have messed with them so much, can take a week or more to see pins.  I notice your tubs are on the ground... in general it is recommended you keep your projects at least three feet above grounds surface, as the nastiest of contams float around in this region usually.




Good to know I will try to adjust accordingly
I have one metal rack
I want like .... four more :laugh:

Wow good to know. Should I consolidate ?
I feel like I get good flushes this way


Edited by Kalypto (10/22/13 05:49 PM)


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19014967 - 10/22/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Pasteurization is between 140-160 try that next time.

Bulk doesn't need to consolidate since CVG is not high nutrition like BRF. a few day consolidation of bulk substrate wont hurt anything though.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19014993 - 10/22/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Good to know , so stopping wasnt bad right now.


Edited by Kalypto (10/23/13 07:39 AM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19017836 - 10/23/13 07:40 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Fuck my life I got another contamination

What do you think the chances they all fail are ?

so far 3 or 5

This contam seems small and I do need these

Should I just spray with bleach


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19018032 - 10/23/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
Fuck my life I got another contamination

What do you think the chances they all fail are ?

so far 3 or 5

This contam seems small and I do need these

Should I just spray with bleach




Well what's the contaminant? A TC would tell you never to try to fuck with a sporulating mold, in the words of RR, "unless you want to stop practicing this hobby until you move to another location."

If I needed the fruit and it was a bacterial contaminant, I would cut out a nice chunk around it. Some people have success with excision; some would prefer to also use a bleach/alcohol drip for the duration of the flush. None are really good options, so there's not a whole lot of information that I've found comparing their merits.

These procedures might also work for molds before sporulation, but I'm not really even sure how that works. Does a mold colony begin sporulation simultaneously? Or could there be little pockets sporulating before the colony turns color? These are things I don't know.

If all at once, I imagine there's not too much harm in excision/drip therapy. If there might be sections of the colony sporulating too small to see as a color yet, it would still be quite dangerous (in regards to future cultivation).


Edited by retaardvark (10/23/13 09:07 AM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: retaardvark]
    #19018041 - 10/23/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Its trich , I took it outside And sprayed some bleach and sealed , Its in my living room now as I dont trust it near my other tubs


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19018314 - 10/23/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's toast. Toss it. Start over.

I would not trust your pasteurization technique. Although CVG is contam resistant, it is not contam proof.

180F for 2-3 hours is not considered proper pasteurization. The core of the sub needs to be 140-170


https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844#17246844
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Once the substrate hits 140F, start a timer for 60 minutes...

If the temp goes over 165-170 for more than a few minutes, you will sterilize part of the substrate. It'd be best to toss it and try again. Since we spawn to bulk in open air, a partially sterilized substrate is often as shitty as an unpasteurized substrate.




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18784975#18784975
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Pasteurization is not just heating the core temperature of the substrate to 140-160F for 60-90 minutes. Proper pasteurization is also rapidly cooling the substrate after the pasteurization time has elapsed.




Those temps refer to the core of the substrate.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19019806 - 10/23/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SpitballJedi said:
It's toast. Toss it. Start over.

I would not trust your pasteurization technique. Although CVG is contam resistant, it is not contam proof.

180F for 2-3 hours is not considered proper pasteurization. The core of the sub needs to be 140-170


https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844#17246844
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Once the substrate hits 140F, start a timer for 60 minutes...

If the temp goes over 165-170 for more than a few minutes, you will sterilize part of the substrate. It'd be best to toss it and try again. Since we spawn to bulk in open air, a partially sterilized substrate is often as shitty as an unpasteurized substrate.




https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18784975#18784975
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Pasteurization is not just heating the core temperature of the substrate to 140-160F for 60-90 minutes. Proper pasteurization is also rapidly cooling the substrate after the pasteurization time has elapsed.




Those temps refer to the core of the substrate.





Pretty sure I already said that I would be switching to franks timing not sure though

Just got me a probe thermometer for it


Edited by Kalypto (10/23/13 02:58 PM)


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19019859 - 10/23/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If I over looked it, my bad.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19019887 - 10/23/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

No stress
So basically since I do a pillow case at a time
If my center hit 160 unless its 160 in the box the outside will be hotter and steralized

So I would want to let the center hit about 145 and wait as too not burn the outside essentially


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19020003 - 10/23/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's all about the core. If the outer edges gets sterile, that's okay as long as the core does not go above pasteurization temps.

I think I would have a difficult time doing this the way you do. I like to have field capacity before I start pasteurizing and adding steam might make it too wet. :shrug:

CVG is pretty forgiving though. Your contam issue is likely due to your spawn. Proper pasteurization is a good step for troubleshooting.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18461535#18461535
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Actaully ... I have found that I prefer to let the water boil when bringing the core to 140-160F. 

The bacteria you want will thrive in the center of the substrate while everything else begins to die at 170F+ on the outer areas.  While cooling and especially while spawning, this bacteria will propagate and take hold of the whole substrate as it should.

I would  venture to guess it might even be easier for the thermophiles to spread if the outer parts of the sub get excessively heated.

The key is to not go over 160-165F at the core of the substrate for more than a few minutes. That, with temps in the center held between 140-160 for 60-90min and you have a well-prepared substrate ready for open air spawning.




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Edited by SpitballJedi (10/23/13 03:41 PM)


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19020068 - 10/23/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Perfect answer , Although I find no matter what water content I put my substrate in with it always comes out perfectly saturated (when you can squeeze a hand full and just a couple drops come out) i think that the right level


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19020118 - 10/23/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: SpitballJedi]
    #19020196 - 10/23/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yep looks good to me though I'm no expert. Also mine took more than two weeks to colonize then finally decided to pin right on it's own and all is looking well right now. Parts of it seem to be consolidating while it's pinning, too.

Patience is key yo! Patience and good vibes :peace: :rasta: :mushroom2:


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: jackalope9517]
    #19020236 - 10/23/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Normally Im like fuck It I have all the time in the world but this time I dont

Thank you for the vibes hahah


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19021068 - 10/23/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Tuned my tubs and got pins woooo


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: Kalypto]
    #19021461 - 10/23/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Kalypto said:
Tuned my tubs and got pins woooo



Tuned?.. o.O


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Re: Problems : Tubs wont pin , Contam starting to take over [Re: jackalope9517]
    #19021471 - 10/23/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

For proper air flow and humidity


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