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karp

Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 310
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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knowing when my jar is fully colonized *DELETED*
#19012819 - 10/22/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by karpReason for deletion: .
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blueconfusion
Strangest



Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 1,727
Last seen: 4 days, 23 hours
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: karp]
#19012859 - 10/22/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've always heard you should give a week consolidation even if the cake is fully colonized to finish digesting the nutes
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: blueconfusion]
#19012934 - 10/22/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Once the outside is colonized, the inside is as well. Though with BRF cakes (and BRF cakes ONLY) it would be a good idea to give a week of consolidation, as blueconfusion said.
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sytar
Radiant


Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: Thadeous]
#19013010 - 10/22/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've seen pictures here where they cut open a cake fully colonized on the outside and showed that it wasn't fully colonized on the inside.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: sytar]
#19013026 - 10/22/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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sytar, I have never seen nor heard of this and in my personal experience have always found that if the outside is colonized, so is the inside. Can you provide a link to support your claim?
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sytar
Radiant


Registered: 09/01/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: Thadeous]
#19013044 - 10/22/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Absolutely no idea what thread that picture was in. It was a BRF cake they did it with. Had a comparison picture of a split open cake fully colonized on the inside next to it for comparison.
Might be rare enough that most people wont see it happen very often? *shrug*
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: sytar]
#19013078 - 10/22/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting. Might have been some sort of contam or something on the inside to stop the myc from colonizing.
Irregardless, 100% outside colonization + ~7 days of consolidation should put you right where you need to be
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: sytar]
#19013095 - 10/22/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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here
Quote:
Shea25 said:

This is sorta what I have seen on the inside when cakes appear 100% on the outside without a consolodation at times.
Better to be safe then sorry
Consolidate PF cakes...
This stuff is easy to find with that voodoo search engine thingy. Then you can lay things to rest with evidence.
Or cut your own cakes open at 100% and 100%+colonization and see what you think about how much stronger the myc looks.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (10/22/13 11:08 AM)
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: bodhisatta]
#19013118 - 10/22/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting, though that person doesn't look like they follow the best methods; the jars are upside down, disturbing the dry verm layer which may have allowed/caused contaminates to get into the substrate. Maybe this had an effect on colonization?
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sytar
Radiant


Registered: 09/01/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: bodhisatta]
#19013122 - 10/22/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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RR says consolidation is so the myc gets as much nutrients from the substrate as possible. It is about getting big flushes not avoiding contams or being worried about your cake drying out before pinning starts. 99% of the time (maybe more) colonized on the outside means colonized on the inside.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
Edited by sytar (10/22/13 11:14 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: sytar]
#19013145 - 10/22/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thadeous said: Interesting, though that person doesn't look like they follow the best methods; the jars are upside down, disturbing the dry verm layer which may have allowed/caused contaminates to get into the substrate. Maybe this had an effect on colonization?
That person is a trusted cultivator. I'm sure he didn't give mush shit about PF cakes except for demonstration to help people.
Quote:
sytar said: RR says consolidation is so the myc gets as much nutrients from the substrate as possible. It is about getting big flushes not avoiding contams or being worried about your cake drying out before pinning starts. 99% of the time (maybe more) colonized on the outside means colonized on the inside.
And this is taking things out of context. Yes you did read a RR quote that said that but you should also read every RR quote. Consolidation does allow the myc to consume the nutrients. With that said it probably takes less than 7 days to do that but that number of days gives the best returns probably because the first couple days are spent getting to the last little bit of the center. Myc does grow in 3D but depending on where you inoculated, how packed your substrate is, how close to field capacity the substrate started out, etc.. all effect it.
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sytar
Radiant


Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: bodhisatta]
#19013161 - 10/22/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hmm the RR quotes I read (admittedly old ones) seemed to deny even the possibility that a jar could be colonized on the outside but not on the inside. Did he update his stance in the last 3-5 years (seems possible)?
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
Edited by sytar (10/22/13 11:23 AM)
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: sytar]
#19013180 - 10/22/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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That person is a trusted cultivator which is all the more worrying that they have those PF cake jars upside down! You cannot excuse improper procedure. Maybe when that post was made it was not as demonized, but now we know it is, so it does erode some credibility of those results.
Ignoring all the persiflage of this thread, I think everyone agrees in 100% colonization of the outside + around a week on consolidation before introducing into fruiting conditions.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: Thadeous]
#19013195 - 10/22/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Regardless of what RR says. And he is a great amazing source of info. I have seen the inside of a cake for myself and have seen Shea25's picture. Who am I going to trust? Follow RR that's good, but don't blindly follow RR like some sheep.
Quote:
Thadeous said: That person is a trusted cultivator which is all the more worrying that they have those PF cake jars upside down! You cannot excuse improper procedure.
You can turn PF cakes over if you're going to birth them anyway. Don't turn them over during colonization. I'm sure he knew not to turn them over. I know not to do a lot of things that I do do sometimes because I know enough about it to break the rules. You follow?
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Thadeous
On the path

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1,101
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: bodhisatta]
#19013227 - 10/22/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: You can turn PF cakes over if you're going to birth them anyway. Don't turn them over during colonization. I'm sure he knew not to turn them over. I know not to do a lot of things that I do do sometimes because I know enough about it to break the rules. You follow?
Unfortunately I do follow, lol. I scold myself when I do those things though, even though its probably ok. A fair point, friend.
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sytar
Radiant


Registered: 09/01/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: Thadeous]
#19013289 - 10/22/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well I was the one who brought up shea25's cakes so I agree that RR was wrong about internal colonization. But part of your post was about how I took RR out of context; you mentioned reading all his quotes so I thought you read something I didn't. AFAIK RR doesn't prescribe seven days because the first two or three are for full colonization - all seven of those are so the myc can get more nutes.
-------------------- I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.
Edited by sytar (10/22/13 11:47 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: sytar]
#19013382 - 10/22/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
sytar said: Well I was the one who brought up shea25's cakes so I agree that RR was wrong about internal colonization. But part of your post was about how I took RR out of context; you mentioned reading all his quotes so I thought you read something I didn't. AFAIK RR doesn't prescribe seven days because the first two or three are for full colonization - all seven of those are so the myc can get more nutes.
AFAIK I don't know at all. I have only seen the other pictures and my own cake's insides. So that's just my hypothesis on the 7 days. Take one of your cakes apart right at 100% and post the results? I have seen my own results and that's all I know. I don't even think RR would know if all 7 days are for eating it would be hard to find out. I'm sure it was a qualitative rather than quantitative analysis that led to the 7 day rule. It's easy to see when it would pay off but hard to measure it paying off.
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TheGreenBox


Registered: 08/03/13
Posts: 276
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: knowing when my jar is fully colonized [Re: karp]
#19014015 - 10/22/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wait week for consolidation.
-------------------- And in my darkest moment, fetal and weeping, the moon tells me a secret - my confidant. As full and bright as I am, this light is not my own and a million light reflections pass over me. Its source is bright and endless. - Tool
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